Best alternative to Createspace?

Dental School Mouth

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I searched Absolutewrite in every way I could think of, and I couldn't find a thread addressing this.

I want to self publish paperbacks of my books. Print-on-demand. I thought about using Amazon's Createspace, but then the company went off the deep end with the Confederate flag thing. No telling what they'll ban next. So I don't want to rely on Createspace. I'll use Amazon as a sales outlet as long as I'm able, but I want to avoid their book-constructing tool.

The only other P-O-D system I was aware of until yesterday was Lulu, and then I ran across Ingram. Today I found a list of a dozen other companies that do P-O-D.

Cost and effectiveness of distribution will be the deciding factor for me, so I need to address those issues now, before I begin the drudgery of learning how to put together book packages.

Any suggestions on which system to use?
 

Thewitt

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Blurb is another one.

That won't keep Amazon from having an impact on your books however. They are the largest bookseller on the planet, eBook or Print book, and they won't put your book in their store if it violates their rules.
 

slhuang

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Ditto on what the others have said. Ingram Spark (the new name for Lightning Source's POD arm for self-publishers) is the other biggie. Some people use Lulu, but not nearly as many (in my observation) as those who go with CS or IS.

Thewitt speaks wisely about Amazon, though -- and not just Amazon; you have to agree to the TOS of any retailer who carries you, so you have to consider such things unless you only seek to sell your books through your own website. Amazon has had content guidelines for self-publishers for ages, way before removal of any flag products from its store, and not very clear guidelines either -- they drive the erotica writers crazy because they're often inconsistent with what books they'll ban.

In other words, needing to agree to content policies to do business with Amazon is not new to us SPers. If you're writing something that will be against their TOS, you may not be able to sell there no matter what POD provider you use. (You don't HAVE to sell at Amazon, of course, but many SPers would consider cutting them out to be terrible for business.)

But beyond Amazon and retailers, I would presume other POD companies also have content rules of some sort (I use CS, so I don't know, but I'm assuming), and they all have the freedom to refuse someone's business. If you're this concerned about your product being pulled, I would advise you to read all fine print carefully and be prepared for them to reserve the same right not to print something they find objectionable.

The good news about POD, of course, is that if a company does stop printing your book, you're only out the time and money for the proof copies. And you can theoretically just move your product to another POD provider, assuming you don't violate their TOS.
 

Dhewco

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Can someone provide a link to what the OP is talking about? There are many books with the Stars and Bars on them. Amazon can't remove them, right? Every Harry Turtledove book set in the South Wins theme has it on the top. My google-fu isn't very good. I'll try again, but it would help if someone has a link. One of my alternative story ideas has a South Wins theme and I'd hate to be unable to sell it on Amazon. (haven't written it yet, but if I can't sell it on Amazon, I won't do it.)


PS. I never knew Amazon owned Createspace.
 
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Dental School Mouth

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https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+confederate+flag&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

That is a link to a google search for "amazon confederate flag." Several stories there.

The White House wants the Confederate flag removed from our society, and Amazon is obliging. It would be self-defeating to put the flag on the cover of a book in such an atmosphere of cultural fascism.

And what will be banned next? Redheads? Ford automobiles?

I'm aware of Terms of Service, but the government cherry picking what's allowed and what's not...how do you deal with that?

One way to cope is to distance yourself from the companies that engage in the fascism. I don't plan to violate Amazon's TOS, but I surely don't want to become too reliant on their system, either. I'll avoid their Createspace but use them as a marketplace until they ban whatever images are on my book covers.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check into those and any others that are added. Thanks to all.
 

WeaselFire

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I thought about using Amazon's Createspace, but then the company went off the deep end with the Confederate flag thing.

Ah. Then you want something that guarantees your book will never appear on Amazon, eBay or the shelves at Walmart. Have you thought of buying a photocopier and comb binding equipment?

Since cost and effectiveness of distribution are the deciding factor, you pretty much are stacking your list with CreateSpace at the top. By protesting Amazon's decision to not sell Confederate battle flags, you pretty much whack any effectiveness of distribution off your decision capabilities. You'll need to prioritize whether Amazon or government/social policies are really your deciding factor versus per unit costs and distribution goals. Something no internet forum can help you decide.

Do the research, look at the numbers, set your priorities then decide on what meets your goals.

Jeff
 

Dhewco

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I'm still not sure it guarantees any such thing. As I said, Harry Turtledove (bestselling author of alternative history) has a lot of books with the Confederate Flag on it. I doubt they'll redo the covers because of this. That would be wasteful and stupid. Now, if it's a book that promotes racial tension, that might be a different story.


Of course, I could be not understanding something in this post. Banning the Confederate flag on a book is a violation of freedom of expression and I doubt Amazon will go that far. The flag on cups and other merchandise is a different story.
 
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Dental School Mouth

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I suppose I'm not expressing myself clearly.

Amazon is in the process of removing the Confederate flag from the merchandise it sells. So are some other big companies. The biggest in the country. Below is a link to a story selected at random from a google search. I don't know if the website running it is left, right or whatever, but it talks about the book cover concern:

"...some authors feel as though the removal of all merchandise with depictions of the Confederate flag from Amazon’s website may hurt them in the long run, and force the expenditure of unnecessary funds to revamp the covers to their books — money that many indie authors simply do not have to spare."

http://www.inquisitr.com/2198594/am...rcing-revamps-of-book-covers-could-be-costly/

If there's even a REMOTE chance that my books may be affected by diktats from the government in the future, then I want to take steps now to minimize that effect. Not over-relying on Amazon is one way to minimize.

I will be using my own ISBN numbers on the books, so that will give me quite a bit of versatility in merchandising them. As I understand Amazon's system, you can DEFINITELY sell on their site if you use Createspace, but you can also sell on their site if you use a different print-on-demand system. Is that not correct?

If that's the case, then I'll sell on Amazon until they say I can't. I might lose that market, but they won't be able to cut me off from the P.O.D. system I'm using. I'll still be able to churn out books to sell elsewhere.

Make sense?
 

cmhbob

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If there's even a REMOTE chance that my books may be affected by diktats from the government in the future, then I want to take steps now to minimize that effect.

Best bet to truly minimize that risk? Don't publish anything.

Look, who thought that games about the Civil War would be forbidden from showing the Confederate Battle Flag? Things change. Societal rules change. In a situation like what's going on today, they change rapidly, and like a pendulum. The center - what's acceptable - has moved, and so there will be turmoil until the new center is found, and things settle in. As a perfect example, Apple has reversed themselves on pulling at least one game from iTunes, and is realizing that they may have been a little knee-jerkish in their response.

Don't borrow trouble. Write the best story you possibly can. Find the most effective sales channels, and use them.

Good luck.
 

Dental School Mouth

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I don't need moralizing or advice on writing here. I need advice on the best self-publishing platform.

With the Confederate flag flap, Amazon has shown that it's willing to go along with fascist diktats. That's beyond my control. But what's WITHIN my control is how I interact with Amazon. I don't want to use their Createspace publishing platform, because they might deny me the use of it in the future.

At any rate, I'll check into the POD systems mentioned in this thread. I believe that with Ingram I can sell through Amazon if I use my own ISBNs.

Thanks for the help, folks. I don't need any more defenses of Amazon or lectures on societal pendulums and that garbage. Fascism is bad. Fight it.
 

Dhewco

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I don't think it's so much about that they're giving moralizing statements, but that they want you to understand that you're severely limiting yourself by your stance. As for myself, I just wanted clarification on Amazon/Createspace policy. I hadn't heard that the ban extends to books. I think that edges into civil liberty/censorship issues I expect any writer to care about.

I'm sorry that I don't know much about self-publishing. Amazon is going to be my creature of choice due to financial reasons. No finances, hence reasons. LOL. Other than years of trying for traditional publishers/agents, I've had poetry published and an article on gun control published. My ex-brother-in-law (sister's ex) had a couple books vanity published. That's not the same thing, though.

I wish you the best of luck and the most success possible.
 

slhuang

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OP, you're the one who keeps bringing up "fascist diktats." Take it to the Politics & Current Events forum. (Not a mod, just a frustrated poster who's TRYING TO HELP YOU.)

Look, this is not about the government, and OP, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to drag that in so we can focus on your question. Amazon and the other retailers are private companies. They can have whatever the hell content guidelines they want, and they can change them at any time. It's right there in their TOS when you sell through them. Like I said, this is not news to SPers, and Amazon's whims already drive erotica writers up the wall. There's a lot Amazon bans from their stores that is perfectly legal under the American First Amendment -- Amazon just doesn't want to sell it. Which is their right as a private company, whether or not a private citizen like you or I or anyone else disagrees. Whether or not the government disagrees, honestly. Amazon can't be forced to carry a product they don't want to carry.

And POD printers cannot be forced to print what they don't want to print.

That includes all POD companies based in the U.S., which I think is all the big ones. The only way to find a POD company with less risk of imposing content guidelines, is, imho, to find one that associates itself passionately with freedom of speech, like a POD company associated with the EFF or Reddit. But I don't think any that do this exist, or if they do, I haven't heard of them.

If you're willing to pour some research into it, the search terms I would suggest are looking for a POD company that accepts hard-core erotica/pornography, as I imagine there may be more people asking that question than yours but the answer might be what you are looking for. (Haven't tried the search, just a suggestion.)

All this is to say: If you dislike what Amazon has done, then sure, don't use CS. But I really don't think there's any guarantee IS or Lulu or any of the other POD companies will automatically be more okay with being associated with a book Amazon would ban. They may print something CS wouldn't, but they also may not print something CS would. They're private companies too, and get to do what they want. So if you're worried about the future -- which is what it sounded like in your OP -- I wouldn't bet on one above the others.

If, on the other hand, this is about protesting something Amazon has already done, then sure, just go with IS. It's up to you.

If that's the case, then I'll sell on Amazon until they say I can't. I might lose that market, but they won't be able to cut me off from the P.O.D. system I'm using. I'll still be able to churn out books to sell elsewhere.

Make sense?

Not really, actually. You're not married to your POD provider. You can switch at any time, or have more than one (some people do both CS and IS and use them for different retailers to get a higher cut). You will always still be able to switch to another POD company and sell elsewhere. (Unless, of course, you've exhausted all the POD companies out there.) It would be a mild annoyance, sure, but it's not like there's a contract -- you can always switch. Some people do it voluntarily just because they're dissatisfied for whatever reason.

I really don't think there's any more likelihood CS will stop printing you than that someone else will (though again, if you don't want any of your profits going to the Amazon parent company, of course that's a different story and it's your prerogative). But if you're worried about this, maybe you should contact the major POD providers and ask for more specifics on their content policies.



(eta: This post is not meant as either a defense or a criticism of Amazon's or anyone else's content policies. I'm only discussing the reality of doing business with SP/POD partners, not what I personally think of their TOS.)
 
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J. Tanner

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As I understand Amazon's system, you can DEFINITELY sell on their site if you use Createspace, but you can also sell on their site if you use a different print-on-demand system. Is that not correct?

That's correct. But in many cases they won't "stock" your POD if it's not from CreateSpace and that can put a note on your book page that says the book will be shipped within 2-3 weeks. The books often ship immediately, but since Amazon isn't involved in the creation, they put up the warning to make sure buyers are aware. And when they see that, they quite often steer clear.

So, in short, you can lose a lot of impulse sales by not using CreateSpace.

One option that slhuang mentioned is to use CreateSpace for Amazon and Ingram Spark for everywhere else. It's more work, but it might optimize your specific situation.
 

Dental School Mouth

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This search for an alternative to Createspace has taught me that I need to steer clear of their tools for book design. So now I'm looking for the tools to help me create interior files and covers. MS Word will work fine for the interiors, but I'm having a problem getting info on cover layout software. I need to be able to convert to pdf at the end, and I need something portable, that isn't dependent on a hookup to the internet. Any recommendations on a cover layout program would be appreciated. Something on an actual disc would be best.
 
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Old Hack

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I have tried FeedARead but I haven't had much luck with them (formatting or sales wise). You might want to give them a shot.

Here's the website: https://www.feedaread.com/login.aspx

Maybe you'll have better luck with them.

PLEASE don't try FeedARead. They're vanity publishers and you'll lose control of your work if you go with them.
 

Dental School Mouth

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No, I know what vanity publishers are, and I know their telltale signs. I'd never bother with them. But POD is a different story. No cost beyond the labor and the tools needed to do the design.

Which brings me back to my most pressing question at the moment. Which book design software should I be looking into? I want to work up each project as two PDFs--one for the cover and one for the interior. At an industry standard trim size, and with my self-owned ISBN, that "edition" of the book can then be delivered to any POD business for fabrication.

But I'm having no luck finding the software I need. The search goes on.

Let me ask this--when you use the Createspace tools for design, do they send you a pdf of the work? Something you can file away on a USB for future use elsewhere? I want MY work to be MINE in the future, not part of some company's "digital cloud."
 

Perrorist

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I published first through Ingram-Spark, both paperback and ePub, and the paperback was listed on Amazon. Shortly after, I published on CreateSpace, and that elbowed the IS book from the list. I also used the Kindle service.

In other words, Amazon will publish a POD created elsewhere.
 

blacbird

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the government cherry picking what's allowed and what's not...how do you deal with that?

This is a digression, but simply has to be said, for the sake of veracity. The "government" didn't "cherry pick" anything. The "government" didn't tell Amazon to remove the Confederate flag from their products. It was Amazon's FREE choice to do so. the Federal Government, in plain fact, didn't get involved in the South Carolina controversy in any way. Removal of the flag from state government grounds was a pure choice of the South Carolina state government.

As for books displaying the Confederate flag, of which there are many (almost every history book I've ever seen on the Civil War does so on the cover), I'm pretty sure that hasn't been affected. Amazon's choice was simply not to continue to sell actual replica Confederate battle flags.

So if you want to gripe, go gripe at Amazon.

caw
 
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