Running

Forbidden Snowflake · Jul 7, 2015

My plan tells me a 55 minute run is ahead next Tuesday, with a 10 minute warm-up and then running a 5K as fast as I can... my problem is I'm not fast. I've had two knee surgeries in summer 12 and I'm just not fast. In fact, I'm horribly slow... and I can build endurance, I can run for an hour without dying... but I can't get anywhere. I might as well walk. (My estimated run-time for the half-marathon is 3.11

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kuwisdelu · Jul 8, 2015

Forbidden Snowflake said:
My plan tells me a 55 minute run is ahead next Tuesday, with a 10 minute warm-up and then running a 5K as fast as I can... my problem is I'm not fast. I've had two knee surgeries in summer 12 and I'm just not fast. In fact, I'm horribly slow... and I can build endurance, I can run for an hour without dying... but I can't get anywhere. I might as well walk. (My estimated run-time for the half-marathon is 3.11 )

If I may, that sounds like a very odd training program. Which one is it? A 5K time trial isn't a typical workout, and the only reason I can think of including it would be as a substitute for a 5K race, to establish training paces.

Any training workout done at or near 5K race pace is typically broken into intervals, for good reason. Unless you need an estimate of your 5K speed, I would run it at a comfortably hard pace, but not as fast as you can.

I know I haven't been running very long so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice, but when I get into something I tend to research is obsessively.

kuwisdelu · Jul 8, 2015

Ugh another day of 90% humidity. I could SEE it.

I swear, I could SEE the humidity.

Today's easy miles were not easy. Even when I tried to pick up the pace, I was running a full minute per mile slower than my typical easy pace.

Hip flexor is still grumbly.

CassandraW · Jul 8, 2015

Forbidden Snowflake said:
My plan tells me a 55 minute run is ahead next Tuesday, with a 10 minute warm-up and then running a 5K as fast as I can... my problem is I'm not fast. I've had two knee surgeries in summer 12 and I'm just not fast. In fact, I'm horribly slow... and I can build endurance, I can run for an hour without dying... but I can't get anywhere. I might as well walk. (My estimated run-time for the half-marathon is 3.11

Forbidden Snowflake said:
)

kuwisdelu said:
If I may, that sounds like a very odd training program. Which one is it? A 5K time trial isn't a typical workout, and the only reason I can think of including it would be as a substitute for a 5K race, to establish training paces.

Any training workout done at or near 5K race pace is typically broken into intervals, for good reason. Unless you need an estimate of your 5K speed, I would run it at a comfortably hard pace, but not as fast as you can.

I know I haven't been running very long so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice, but when I get into something I tend to research is obsessively.

I have been running for quite a while, and I agree. and wth those two knee surgeries, I think you'd be wise to take it more cautiously, especially with regard to speed workouts.

Assuming your knees aren't bothering you (in which case you probably should skip the speed work altogether), it sounds like your current state of fitness would be better suited to something like fartleks, where you just pick up the pace for random intervals, and do slow recovery runs. Or maybe do a 20-30 minute tempo run at a harder than usual (but not as hard as you can) pace after your warmup, then cool down.

Eta:

One thing I've seen way too much of are people getting too aggressive too quickly with their training programs. Aggressive is good -- it helps you get faster -- but overdo it and you blow what you've worked for!

Of the set I used to run with 15 years ago, i'm one of the few still running. And i think that's in large part because I have learned to back off if I think that's what my body needs! There's something about running that raises the impulse in many of us to overtrain. It's addictive!

Forbidden Snowflake · Jul 8, 2015

The 5K (kilometres btw, I guess that's important) thing is to see where I'm at in my training, to see whether or not I can up my pace for the half-marathon training and in general.

I run my kilometre at a pace of almost 10 minutes per kilometre during my steady runs. And when I train speed it's at around 9 minutes per kilometre. I'm not getting much faster at the moment due to my knee.

So, this 5K thing is simply to assess my level of fitness and to see what I can actually do at the moment so I can adjust the pace and training for the remaining 13 weeks.

Basically I want to see if that 5K can be done in less than 45 minutes... which for 5 kilometres is laughable... pre surgery I ran that in 27 minutes. Sigh. It's really bothering me that even two years later I can't really improve on speed without having to worry.

Otherwise my plan is all intervals, and steady runs and slow long runs.

Still bad? I do those 5K assessments every 2-3 months to track my progress... didn't realise it might be a bad thing? Unless of course you thought I was suddenly going to try and run double as fast as I normally do

Edited to add: My steady runs are 30-40 minutes. My long runs are about an hour. I've been running regularly for several years before the surgery. And started running again a year ago when I was cleared by my doctor to start using the knee properly again. So far the knee is not troubling me.

CassandraW · Jul 8, 2015

Hmmm. Well, a lot of people do periodic races to assess their fitness, and that's fine, as long as you don't overdo it and burn out before your goal race. And a 5k race over 2-3 months isn't overdoing. If that's what you're doing, it sounds ok.

Eta:

But please do be careful on that knee! If an hour is now your long run, running as hard as you can for an hour is probably not a good idea. Do your speed work/assessment on a different day from your long run, with rest and/or easy days in between! Long runs and speed are both tough on your body -- don't underestimate them!

Forbidden Snowflake · Jul 8, 2015

CassandraW said:
Hmmm. Well, a lot of people do periodic races to assess their fitness, and that's fine, as long as you don't overdo it and burn out before your goal race. And a 5k race over 2-3 months isn't overdoing. If that's what you're doing, it sounds ok.

Eta:

But please do be careful on that knee! If an hour is now your long run, running as hard as you can for an hour is probably not a good idea. Do your speed work/assessment on a different day from your long run, with rest and/or easy days in between! Long runs and speed are both tough on your body -- don't underestimate them!

Yes my long run is at 10 minutes per kilometre. So more a brisk walk

My speed work is incorporated into 30 minute runs where I do intervals. And very poorly. The average pace is never faster than 9 minutes per kilometre. My goal isn't to get fast again, I doubt I can. I just want my legs to be strong again. Target for the half-marathon is 3.11 hours. My partner would like to tackle a marathon in a year. But I really don't think that's a good idea...

CassandraW · Jul 8, 2015

Forbidden Snowflake said:
Yes my long run is at 10 minutes per kilometre. So more a brisk walk My speed work is incorporated into 30 minute runs where I do intervals. And very poorly. The average pace is never faster than 9 minutes per kilometre. My goal isn't to get fast again, I doubt I can. I just want my legs to be strong again. Target for the half-marathon is 3.11 hours. My partner would like to tackle a marathon in a year. But I really don't think that's a good idea...

I say listen to youself. Focusing on stronger legs and greater endurance is a terrific goal in itself.

My long-term goal is to still be running at 80! I see a few very old runners in Central Park and at races, and I think it's just wonderful.

kuwisdelu · Jul 8, 2015

Forbidden Snowflake said:
Still bad? I do those 5K assessments every 2-3 months to track my progress... didn't realise it might be a bad thing? Unless of course you thought I was suddenly going to try and run double as fast as I normally do

Okay that makes more sense, if it's in place of a 5K race. Personally, I would rather just run a race than a time trial, since you're almost always going to run faster at a race than you could on your own. Racing requires recovery, so make sure you do the same for the time trial!

CassandraW · Jul 8, 2015

kuwisdelu said:
Okay that makes more sense, if it's in place of a 5K race. Personally, I would rather just run a race than a time trial, since you're almost always going to run faster at a race than you could on your own. Racing requires recovery, so make sure you do the same for the time trial!

agree with Kuwi. I always do better in races. Before my very first race (an 8 K) way back when, I had never run faster than a 9 minute pace, even trying as hard as I could. And I'd never run more than 5 miles, so the distance was the equivalent of my longest runs. And I pulled an 8:27 pace! I didn't realize it until the end of the race.

And YES -- if you put in a race-level effort, absolutely, you need to recover from that.

kuwisdelu said:
Ugh another day of 90% humidity. I could SEE it.

I swear, I could SEE the humidity.

Today's easy miles were not easy. Even when I tried to pick up the pace, I was running a full minute per mile slower than my typical easy pace.

Hip flexor is still grumbly.

I feel your pain. I had sweat running into my eyes after the first couple of minutes. I ended up cutting my planned 5 miler to 4 miles because I felt so overheated. How I hate humidity. We're supposed to get some thunderstorms -- I hope that helps.

kuwisdelu · Jul 8, 2015

CassandraW said:
I feel your pain. I had sweat running into my eyes after the first couple of minutes. I ended up cutting my planned 5 miler to 4 miles because I felt so overheated. How I hate humidity. We're supposed to get some thunderstorms -- I hope that helps.

I think I much preferred the run I did in 80 with low humidity last week...

We were supposed to get thunderstorms, too, but they're nowhere to be found...

Still wondering if I'm okay running on this hip. It doesn't hurt to walk or run anymore. (I notice a tightness, but no real pain, and I don't think it's altering my stride any.)

Most of the day it just feels like regular soreness. It only really hurts when I stand one-legged on the strained hip and lean over (e.g., to put on a shoe or pants), i.e., the motion replicated in a one-legged deadlift.

It started early last week, and when I first realized it was more than just soreness (i.e., when I started a run last Tuesday and decided I should stop), I took two days off and felt much better. I start feeling it again after longer runs. I tried some bodyweight one-legged deadlifts the other day, and felt okay. Tried again today and couldn't do one without pain. Regular movement feels fine, though.

As I mentioned, I rearranged my plan to hold off any speedwork for another four weeks. I have some built-in time off in August when I'm traveling for a week for a conference, which should help if I'm not feeling 100% by then.

I'm icing it when I can, and doing leg raises to strengthen the hip flexor. Also trying squats and lunges. Was trying some single-legged deadlifts, but couldn't complete one immediately after this morning's run. I should probably rest more between strengthening exercises.

kuwisdelu · Jul 8, 2015

Also, took a nap after this morning's run again. Second consecutive run at dawn.

Probably won't be able to get to sleep early enough to do it again tomorrow, though. -_-

Mitch · Jul 9, 2015

Hey! My name is Mitch... I'm new here. I'm a runner, singer/songwriter, and now, and author seeking representation... sounds like it should be easy, right

I run 3 times a week...running and singing are my novel's genesis. It's called "Musical Miles" - http://www.amazon.com/dp/148342703X/?tag=absowrit-20

I had the silly idea of recording a CD and then lining up on the Chicago marathon's starting line the day after finishing...bad idea!!!

If you run, please give a peak inside...I'd love your feedback

Me and 1000 other masochists just raced up Mt. Washington 2 weeks ago...crazy climb, no flats, and one hill - but 7.6 miles of it.

I'm signed up for the Portland, ME Beach 2 Beacon 10K in August and the Philly Marathon in November. Gonna be fun!

Any of you writers out there who are runners around Portland, ME who want to get together for a run?

Know any agents who might be interested in my novel?

CassandraW · Jul 9, 2015

Welcome to AW, Mitch.

Cooler today. I ran 6 at a brisker pace than the last few days.

Are you stretching those hip flexors, kuwi? Mine get stiff if I don't. (I am not naturally flexible -- I need to stretch a bit after every run, or I curl up like an over-cooked shrimp.)

kuwisdelu · Jul 9, 2015

Welcome to AW, Mitch.

Mitch said:
Know any agents who might be interested in my novel?

Unfortunately — unless you already have great sales — no agent will be interested in a novel that's already up on Amazon.

CassandraW said:
Cooler today. I ran 6 at a brisker pace than the last few days.

Decided to sleep in today and run on the Esplanade this evening, so I haven't gotten mine in yet.

Are you stretching those hip flexors, kuwi? Mine get stiff if I don't. (I am not naturally flexible -- I need to stretch a bit after every run, or I curl up like an over-cooked shrimp.)

Trying to. I'll see how it feels tonight.

kuwisdelu · Jul 9, 2015

6.4 for me. Last .4 at 5K pace. Felt easy today.

Always feels great coming over Longfellow Bridge. Like flying.

Probably because I only bother running on the river when the weather's nice and cool.

Hip feels fine for now.

CassandraW · Jul 9, 2015

OK, this is fun. Or at least, I think so. Or at least for those of us who are *ahem* no longer teenagers, but :hooray:

supposedly have a fitness age of a person under 20!

:hooray:

Of course, I'm not sure that's saying much these days. The average teen isn't in such great shape.

Anyway. When I feel lazy and like skipping a run (and humidity definitely has that effect on me sometimes), this kind of thing keeps me going. I may have been a kid no one wanted on their team in gym class back in junior high, but I CAN KICK ALL THEIR ASSES NOW!

kuwisdelu · Jul 9, 2015

CassandraW said:
OK, this is fun. Or at least, I think so. Or at least for those of us who are *ahem* no longer teenagers, but supposedly have a fitness age of a person under 20!

I remember seeing this on another forum but didn't bother reading the article.

Sounds fun, but I want to see the research showing how reliable a predictor of VO2max their model is.

Even Jack Daniels with his VDOT tables doesn't actually claim to predict VO2max, only a practical surrogate variable.

/moodkiller

CassandraW · Jul 9, 2015

kuwisdelu said:
I remember seeing this on another forum but didn't bother reading the article.

Sounds fun, but I want to see the research showing how reliable a predictor of VO2max their model is.

Even Jack Daniels with his VDOT tables doesn't actually claim to predict VO2max, only a practical surrogate variable.

/moodkiller

Yes, it's much better if you actually know your VO2max. The typical age tables are especially off if you're athletic; I wouldn't rely on them.

I dated a guy who moonlighted as a personal trainer a year or so ago. He tested me for all kinds of shit -- body fat, etc. It was fun.

ETA:

As you can tell, I am an utter geek. I also am disproportionately pleased when my dentist tells me what a good job I do brushing and flossing.

kuwisdelu · Jul 9, 2015

CassandraW said:
I also am disproportionately pleased when my dentist tells me what a good job I do brushing and flossing.

I'm an anti-dentite and should probably take better care of my teeth.

I hate brushing and flossing and regularly forget.

Edit: I'll get my VO2max measured if I ever find myself in the Olympic Trials.

CassandraW · Jul 9, 2015

kuwisdelu said:
I'm an anti-dentite and should probably take better care of my teeth.

I hate brushing and flossing and regularly forget.

Edit: I'll get my VO2max measured if I ever find myself in the Olympic Trials.

Heh. My mom had major problems with her teeth when I was growing up. I got into good habits early because I saw how much she suffered. I'm keeping all of these suckers until I die.

Yeah, you really don't need to know your VO2max. If you can run a few miles, it's fine. I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't been dating trainer dude. Ditto for the body fat test. It was fun, but it really didn't do anything except confirm I'm healthy, which I already knew.

I rarely even weigh myself. I go on the "my clothes fit, so I'm fine" test.

kuwisdelu · Jul 9, 2015

CassandraW said:
I rarely even weigh myself. I go on the "my clothes fit, so I'm fine" test.

I weigh myself almost everyday and track everything eat since I still have a ways to go to get to my goal weight.

(And I'm still borderline overweight)

(And today's meals didn't help.)

I'd probably get there a lot quicker if I just cut out beer, but, well, I'm not THAT much of a masochist.

CassandraW · Jul 9, 2015

Keep the beer. You're upping your mileage for a marathon. Unless you use that as an excuse to eat mass quantities, you're going to lose weight.

Or at least inches. I weigh a few pounds more than I did my senior year in high school, when I was thin but not athletic. But my waist, thighs, and hips are actually a wee bit smaller now! (As measured in inches, and as measured by the pair of high school jeans I keep at my parents' house. :greenie

)

ETA:

Another thing that keeps me running is that I can enjoy more food and more beer. Life is too short to deny yourself the good stuff.

kuwisdelu · Jul 9, 2015

CassandraW said:
Keep the beer. You're upping your mileage for a marathon. Unless you use that as an excuse to eat mass quantities, you're going to lose weight.

I'm only eating more insofar as eating out every night makes it incredibly hard to eat healthy. (I have an Airbnb for the summer, and my place is not conducive to cooking like I do at home.)

Another thing that keeps me running is that I can enjoy more food and more beer. Life is too short to deny yourself the good stuff.

Amen. If I'm not losing weight, clearly that just means I need to run more.

(I'm still losing, just more slowly. I expect my diet to improve once I get back to my own apartment. Except for the beer, of course.)

poetinahat · Jul 9, 2015

kuwisdelu said:
46:21. Official splits: 5K: 23:30, 8K: 37:23. Overall: 692/5956. Gender: 560/2722. Division: 133/519. Bib 2936. It was a PR for me, but I was aiming for sub-45.

Man, I'm impressed.

I've been pretty anti-running most of my life, but took it up a while back, and now like it a lot. Ironically, I find that I have healthy knees and hips at fifty, which might be due in part to very little running at all when I was younger. (Possible side effect of smoking until I was twenty-nine?)

I ran my first half-marathon six weeks ago, and was overjoyed to break two hours - I made 1:57:38. Debating whether to do another, or to aim for a full marathon.

I've gone off the boil since then, after two colds and a ski trip, but I'm ready to get back on the road.

Running

I'm quite put out.

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

I'm quite put out.

I'm quite put out.

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

Revolutionize the World

say it loud