DOJ Uses Grand Jury Subpoena To Identify Anonymous Commenters on a Silk Road Post at Reason.com

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
From PopeHat
The United States Department of Justice is using federal grand jury subpoenas to identify anonymous commenters engaged in typical internet bluster and hyperbole in connection with the Silk Road prosecution. DOJ is targeting Reason.com, a leading libertarian website whose clever writing is eclipsed only by the blowhard stupidity of its commenting peanut gallery.

Why is the government using its vast power to identify these obnoxious asshats, and not the other tens of thousands who plague the internet?

Because these twerps mouthed off about a judge.
But is that the real story? Or is it this part about the Assistant U.S. Attorney who issued the subpoena?
On Friday, June 5th, the day after a source sent me the subpoena, I decided to call Niketh Velamoor, the Assistant U.S. Attorney who issued the subpoena. My purpose was to tell him that I would not print the subpoena if he could convince me that he had specific evidence demonstrating that to do so would put a life in danger. Mr. Velamoor — who said he could not discuss grand jury investigations, which is the standard AUSA statement — said that it was unreasonable to expect the government to be able to prove such a threat before it identified the commenters. That answered my question on the point.Mr. Velamoor was suspicious and defensive. At one point he told me that he "believed" that there was a gag order prohibiting this subpoena from being released by its recipients, and that whoever gave it to me must have violated that order, and that he would be "looking into it" and how I got it.

Such gag orders do exist. However, I note that two days earlier on June 2, 2015, Mr. Velamoor signed the cover letter on the subpoena, which contained the Department of Justice's standard language about secrecy:

The Government hereby requests that you voluntarily refrain from disclosing the existence of the subpoena to any third party. While you are under no obligation to comply with our request, we are requesting you not to make any disclosure in order to preserve the confidentiality of the investigation and because disclosure of the existence of this investigation might interfere with and impede the investigation.

In other words, two days before he told me that he believed there was a gag order on the subpoena, Mr. Velamoor told Reason.com that it was not required to keep the subpoena secret.


Perhaps Mr. Velamoor misspoke. Perhaps Mr. Velamoor misremembered. Perhaps Mr. Velamoor didn't secure the gag order until after he issued the subpoena.


Or perhaps Mr. Velamoor, bless his heart, was lying in an attempt to intimidate me.


In any case, Mr. Velamoor has provided me with no such order, despite a request.


Whatever the answer, consider this: Mr. Velamoor, and government attorneys like him, will be the ones deciding whether the federal government will use the grand jury to pierce the anonymity of your comments. No doubt in some cases they will exercise that power on genuinely frightening threats. But other times will be like this one, where the government subpoenaed the identity of people indulging in crass but obvious bluster.


They will target political speech.


Does that make you feel safer?
 

Albedo

Alex
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
7,376
Reaction score
2,958
Location
A dimension of pure BEES
I suppose 'crass' is one word to describe publicly posting your fantasies about feeding a federal judge through a woodchipper feet first. Another term for that might be 'asking for it'.
 

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
13,322
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Albany, NY
I suppose 'crass' is one word to describe publicly posting your fantasies about feeding a federal judge through a woodchipper feet first. Another term for that might be 'asking for it'.

What if you just fantasize about judges running and jumping into a woodchipper like in Tucker and Dale Versus Evil? "You would not believe the day we had officer. It was the funniest thing..."
 

Albedo

Alex
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
7,376
Reaction score
2,958
Location
A dimension of pure BEES
What if you just fantasize about judges running and jumping into a woodchipper like in Tucker and Dale Versus Evil? "You would not believe the day we had officer. It was the funniest thing..."
Or a giant meat grinder a la Another Brick in the Wall.
 

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
I suppose 'crass' is one word to describe publicly posting your fantasies about feeding a federal judge through a woodchipper feet first. Another term for that might be 'asking for it'.

Asking for what? For the federal government to pretend they believe you really intend to feed people into a woodchipper?

Read the entire story - there is caselaw on the subject, and just saying "I hope you die" or even "I'd like to feed you into a woodchipper," while it may violate the TOS where you're posting, is not and should not be considered an actual criminal threat.
 

Albedo

Alex
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
7,376
Reaction score
2,958
Location
A dimension of pure BEES
Asking for what? For the federal government to pretend they believe you really intend to feed people into a woodchipper?

Read the entire story - there is caselaw on the subject, and just saying "I hope you die" or even "I'd like to feed you into a woodchipper," while it may violate the TOS where you're posting, is not and should not be considered an actual criminal threat.
I offer no opinion on whether fantasising about feeding a federal judge into a woodchipper is, or should be, legal or otherwise under American law. Only that describing such a fantasy as 'crass' is a marvel of studied understatement.
 

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
I offer no opinion on whether fantasising about feeding a federal judge into a woodchipper is, or should be, legal or otherwise under American law. Only that describing such a fantasy as 'crass' is a marvel of studied understatement.

Shrug. Welcome to the Internet.
 

LittlePinto

Perpetually confused
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
1,853
Reaction score
348
Didn't the Supreme Court just rule on something like this concerning Facebook?
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Yeah, but even a ruling won't prevent a jerk of a prosecutor making someone's life a living hell for their perceived sins. I even agree with Albedo about the comments being "crass." Being actionable is a whole 'nother world, and case law seems to indicate this prosecutorial clown has far overstepped his bounds. Not that he'll suffer for it, of course. Probably get a promotion. I guess he figures if cops can get away with murder, he should be able to get away with a little character assassination.