Who could complain against students getting an extra credit assignment?

Two intertwined stories! Heck, that could get sweaty. Let's take them one at a time.

Taking 10-11 year olds on a school trip to a adult-only shop? Surely school sex education for 10 year-olds has to be done with sensitivity and parental consent? Bad decision. Can't see a way to excuse this one.

Encouraging older kids to hunt for their parent's sex toys? I have a problem with this, but it has not much to do with sex. Each of us has a right to some privacy, and that surely includes a right to privacy about our sex lives. By encouraging the kids to snoop on their parents they were saying that it's okay to infringe people's rights to privacy. I'm not so worried about these older kids talking about sex toys, but this is a form of bullying against the parents. It is telling the kids that it is okay to invade someone else's private space.

Also a bad idea.

Vince524 said:

Not that far of a leap. The dildos are on clear display and I wouldn't want my kids at that age seeing that. And it's only one shot of the store. I'm sure they have other stuff. Besides, I got tired of mentioning the dildos and butt plugs. I wouldn't be surprised if there were books and videos on display that was of an adult nature. It was an adult store.

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No, that is pretty much the whole store. In case it wasn't clear, I live in Minneapolis, and I have been there many times.

Once! said:

Two intertwined stories! Heck, that could get sweaty. Let's take them one at a time.

Taking 10-11 year olds on a school trip to a adult-only shop?

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It's not an adults only store.

Okay, it's not an adults only store. It's still totally inappropriate for a teacher to take kids to a store with the various kinds of items this one has, particularly without parental permission. I was always honest and upfront with my kid's sex education and in discussions of sex - but no way in hell would I allow this to happen. I mean, what the hell was the point?

The point was sex education. The people who work at the store are trained sex educators who can answer any questions the kids have better than most teachers or parents could.

Vince524 said:

Well, if their anything like some of the flatulent young boys in her class, maybe she wanted to have them all fitted for butt plugs?

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And maybe some ball gags for the ones who just can't stop giggling and whispering in class.

Were they actually in the store or does the store have a room separate for the sex ed? After Celia's information I'm changing my mind on this. We had sex ed at school at about 8-11. It's not a bad idea.

It's like the selfie issue. This was a group of mid teens - was it just a joke in response to a question? There's no real context to this. The fact only one did what asked indicates nobody did really take it seriously and are the parents of that teen the one complaining? I could see my youngest doing something similar when he is older.

Not enough information on either issue - which is usual with the media.

Usher said:

Were they actually in the store or does the store have a room separate for the sex ed?

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They have separate rooms for their classes, but they would have to go in the store to get to them. Any time I have been there, I haven't noticed any sexually explicit materials on display. Based on my previous experience with the store, and the fact that they didn't really get in trouble, I would guess that it was maybe 1 or 2 books that someone overlooked and left out. They do have dildos, but dildos are not sexually explicit.

Seriously, this is just, no. I've no problem with a teacher discussing sex toys in a sex ed class, nor even with showing pictures or bringing a few to show the kids (hopefully not used ones, though, because that wouldn't be sanitary). But asking students to invade the privacy of a family member and taking a picture of something that will probably be very embarrassing, and (given our society's penchant for hypocrisy and prudery re having a normal sex life) could actually get their parents in trouble?

This is so far beyond okay that I have trouble believing someone would actually do this (who wasn't a teenager themselves mentally).

Note, back when I was in high school (aeons ago) many of my friends actually did discover "personal" things in their parents' drawers or closets, often when looking for something else. But it wasn't because of an assignment, and no one (so far as I know) took pictures. The normal reaction was, "Oh, geez, I didn't want to find this," if it was a sex toy, or to sit down and start thumbing through it if it was a book or magazine.

Celia Cyanide said:

The point was sex education. The people who work at the store are trained sex educators who can answer any questions the kids have better than most teachers or parents could.

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If the teacher can't teach the subject, she should find some other class she can teach. Or have the "trained sex educators" come to school as guest lecturers.

Cyia said:

If these kids were sophomores, then they're almost certainly legal minors. On average, they'd be 15-16 years old, which is below the age of consent in many states. (17 is the most common age, I think). You can't show most "adult" material to kids that age. No way should they be taken to a store specializing in adult anything.

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I'm confused about the 11 year old thing. The OP said the kids in the class were sophomores in high school, which is 15-16. 11 year olds are in fifth or sixth grade, maybe. That's elementary school, not high school or junior high.

I would object to the snooping and selfie thing, however, even if they were college age. It's never right to invade someone else's privacy.

But if they took some high school sophomores to a sex shop for a field trip for a sex ed class, and their parents signed permissions slips, then so be it. But how did we get from the selfie thing to the Smitten Kitten?

I'm guessing that the purpose of an assignment that teaches teens about sex toys is to let them know that it's normal to feel sexual arousal, and there are options for satisfying them besides intercourse.

I'd think the abstinence-only crowd would be all for it. No one gets pregnant or venereal disease from sex toys (well, unless they share them, but that's another issue).

Celia Cyanide said:

They do have dildos, but dildos are not sexually explicit.

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This is the bit I am struggling with. I must admit that I'm not an expert in this subject, but my understanding is that some dildos are modeled on rampant male sex parts. And some (most?) serve an anatomical function similar to the instructions for an Ikea wardrobe. Insert tab A into slot B.

I'm finding it a bit hard to file that mentally under "not explicit".

Of course, we don't know the full story here. I can feel a bit reassured if the sex shop has a separate room where things can be presented in a more measured and discrete way. But I'm struggling to see why they couldn't be done back at school. Don't they have classrooms which the students can get to without walking past plastic representations of erect male penises?

Roxxsmom said:

I'm confused about the 11 year old thing. The OP said the kids in the class were sophomores in high school, which is 15-16. 11 year olds are in fifth or sixth grade, maybe. That's elementary school, not high school or junior high.

I would object to the snooping and selfie thing, however, even if they were college age. It's never right to invade someone else's privacy.

But if they took some high school sophomores to a sex shop for a field trip for a sex ed class, and their parents signed permissions slips, then so be it. But how did we get from the selfie thing to the Smitten Kitten?

I'm guessing that the purpose of an assignment that teaches teens about sex toys is to let them know that it's normal to feel sexual arousal, and there are options for satisfying them besides intercourse.

I'd think the abstinence-only crowd would be all for it. No one gets pregnant or venereal disease from sex toys (well, unless they share them, but that's another issue).

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Roxxmom, there were two separate, unrelated articles in this thread. Getting into the parents' private things was sophomores in California and the sex store was the younger kids in Minnesota.

About the Smitten Kitten, I looked at the site and it just didn't work for me. It says "A progressive sex toy store for everyone." No, not everyone because introducing sex toys to children is perverted. While a store owner may want to present their store as a family friendly sex education classroom AND adult toy/ porn store, that doesn't mean people have to accept that combination. I really don't think children belong in there with all kinds of adult things they're not equipped to understand and don't need to understand yet (whether in a separate "section" or not), as well as being subjected to whatever sexually motivated adults may come into the store. A sexually oriented business is not health class and the school nurse seems to me a far more reasonable choice for that than a "trained" sex shop sales clerk.

And the fact is, the parents weren't consulted, and the children were subjected to the inappropriate things so are they just going to do whatever they want and keep saying, "Whoopsie?" From what I read, the store is laid out in such a way that that was typical and not a fluke, which they were cited for after the field trip story came out. What kind of sex educator doesn't concern themselves with parental permission slips when instructing pre-teens anyway? What is that person's qualifications to teach sex education to children? I believe in my state you have to be 18 to enter an adult toy store. I mean, a business owner may want to position themselves as a daycare and bar too but that doesn't make it an acceptable blurring of lines.

About the sophomores and parental sex toys, even if he was joking, why is a geometry teacher discussing sex toys with fifteen-year-old students?

Sex education should be based on what's age-appropriate and context-appropriate for the children, not on what an adult feels like oversharing with the children behind the parents' backs (which then leads to questions about the adult's motives). Neither of these teachers had any business doing what they did.

Fruitbat said:

I believe in my state you have to be 18 to enter an adult toy store.

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In Minnesota, a store can sell adult items and still not be considered an adult toy store. Adult stores, which you have to be 18 to enter, are located in the warehouse district. It's a zoning issue.

Roxxsmom said:

I would object to the snooping and selfie thing, however, even if they were college age. It's never right to invade someone else's privacy.

But if they took some high school sophomores to a sex shop for a field trip for a sex ed class, and their parents signed permissions slips, then so be it. But how did we get from the selfie thing to the Smitten Kitten?

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I think Rob posted an article about the Smitten Kitten. The OP was about the selfie thing, which I don't get. Even if the kid didn't understand that the teacher was joking, I don't know what the hell was wrong with him that made him think that was okay.

Fruitbat said:

While a store owner may want to present their store as a family friendly sex education classroom AND adult toy/ porn store, that doesn't mean people have to accept that combination.

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I agree. Calling something X doesn't make it X (tangent: like in Congress, where a bill might be named "the Freedom Act" and have nothing to do with freedom).

That said, I don't really think it matters what the Smitten Kitten is or is not, apart from allowing that it's a store whose primary business is selling adult sex toys/tools. Because that right there is enough. Kids shouldn't be taken on ANY field trips without parental consent (really, given that the director of the school did this, the school should be shut down) and I don't think there's much justification for taking 11 year old kids on this specific trip at all.

Why do you hate sexual freedom, robo?

Nobody rides for free.

This is why you're AW's legal authority/public intellectual.

First, the invasion of privacy thing is wrong. If it was a joke and not an actual assignment, the teacher fails because it wasn't clear to at least one kid. Unless that kid chose to believe it wasn't a joke because he wanted to snoop in his parent's room. Which is entirely possible. At that age, he should have known better.

Second, the issue about the younger kids being taken to the Smitten Kitten for a sex education field trip, I have a problem with not because of their age but because of the lack of a parental signed slip approving the field trip. No field trip anywhere should be conducted without the express written permission of the parents.

What I don't have a problem with, after looking at the website and reading the information about the Smitten Kitten, is the field trip there. As long as the children were not exposed to graphic material but were taught in a responsible manner, then I don't see the problem. And, this shop has events open to the public for just such a reason. From their website:

All our free events are held in our Minneapolis store at 3010 Lyndale Ave in Uptown. Our events are well attended by an incredibly diverse audience. When we say that everyone is welcome, we mean it! People of all genders, orientations, ages and abilities are encouraged to come, regardless of relationship status or style.


Events are non-explicit and non-sexual. All demonstrations and other learning tools, images and props are of an educational nature.

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(Bolding mine)

I find the puritanical attitudes in the U.S. on all things sexual dangerous. Teach kids the facts so when they grow up they can make the right decisions. This hiding information from them so they don't think about sex doesn't do a damned thing to keep them from thinking about, and engaging in, sex. It just leaves them open to harm because they don't have the information to protect themselves. And girls are reaching puberty earlier now, some as young as 7. My niece got pregnant at 12 and married the man at 13. And you can bet your life no one talked to her about sex before it happened because talking about sex is such taboo. It is setting kids up for pregnancy and illnesses not to teach them. Frankly, I would rather an 11 year old start using a dildo than engage in experimental sex. It is far safer for the kid. If they learn to please themselves then maybe they will wait to engage in sexual behavior with someone else until their emotional maturity catches up to their budding sexual maturity.

CassandraW said:

Why do you hate sexual freedom, robo?

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So if you don't think children belong in stores that sell explicit sex toys, and don't think teachers should be taking them to these stores behind the backs of their parents, you're some kind of prude? Really?

shadowwalker said:

So if you don't think children belong in stores that sell explicit sex toys, and don't think teachers should be taking them to these stores behind the backs of their parents, you're some kind of prude? Really?

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If you read back a page in the thread, you'll see that I'm opposed to the un-parental-approved field trip and the extra credit assignment, and that I'm giving robo a return gibe for an identical one he tossed at me several posts back.