The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

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sockycat

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You're right the last time I checked, although I have to admit, I haven't checked in quite a while. Also, I'm Canadian, so I don't even know if I could apply, but Canada also has an equivalent.

So apparently...JJ and I are both right. Lol.

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Active members can and are encouraged to attend business meetings, vote in elections, receive access to private discussion forums, gain entry into SFWA exclusive events and suites at conventions, receive publications such as; a SFWA Bulletin subscription, the SFWA membership handbook, and may recommend, nominate, and vote on works for the Nebula Awards.

Active member dues are $100.00 USD annually.

A candidate shall be eligible for Active Membership if:

Three or more paid sales of different works of fiction (such as three separate short stories or half-hour scripts) totaling a minimum of 10,000 words to SFWA qualifying markets.We accept the following payment per word rates for these sales: 6c/word from 7/1/2014 – current, 5c/word from 1/1/2004 to 6/30/2014 and 3c/word before 1/1/2004; or

ORRRR

Associate Members

Associate Members receive access to private discussion forums, entry into SFWA suites at conventions, Bulletin subscription, SFWA Handbook, and may recommend and nominate works for the Nebula Awards but not vote.

Associate dues are $90.00 USD annually.

A candidate shall be eligible for Associate Membership after acceptance and a signed contract or letters of agreement for:

One Paid Sale of a work of fiction (such as a short story) of a minimum of 1,000 words to a SFWA qualifying market. We accept the following payment per word rates: 6c/word from 7/1/2014 – current, 5c/word from 1/1/2004 to 6/30/2014 and 3c/word before 1/1/2004;
 

RaggedEdge

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Sorry to have been away and missed a bunch of exciting stuff!

Canons of confetti to EMaree for signing! Woohoo!!! :PartySmil:partyguy: (And thanks for all the great podcast tips; I'll be checking them out.)

JJ - Congrats on the full request! I totally understand panicking over every little thing. It's not like you were expecting it! I agree with what everyone else said about the revision you did and going with the old title. It'll be cool. :cool:

Liz, a big hug for the personalized R on the full. That is cool/not cool but still an accomplishment.

sockycat, I'm still grinning from the fact you got two pages of editorial notes on a piece of flash fiction. Wow! You must be close. Good luck with the R&R!

amillimiles - Can't wait to hear more!

And yay for Friday (or Saturday, depending on where you live). I bet we all need it! Have a great weekend, everyone!
 

JJ Litke

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Oooh, good point! I didn't consider this because it's not too relevant for non-USA writers. (We have the Society of Authors though, which is amazing and well worth being part of.)

Oh yeah, that's a good point, too. :) And what group you join depends what you hope to get out of it. Codex is probably better if you're trying to get more direct help or critiques.

The big difference between active and associate SFWA membership is voting privileges. But there are still benefits. I'm including it in the credits in my queries. And I'm lucky enough to be able to go to World Fantasy Con this year, and I can get into the SFWA suite.
 

SciSarahTops

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I LOVE WRITING EXCUSES. Dude, that is my favorite podcast hands down. Mary is definitely my favorite though lol.

I thought you had to have three SFWA qualifying sales before you were allowed to join?? Or have I had the wrong number in my head for the longest time?

Also love writing excuses but Wesly Chu (when he's on) is my fav. I always identify with what he has to say and some of his advice has been really useful.

Wow I really don't understand all the acroynyms in here!
 

amillimiles

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Thank you guys!! I can't wait to let you guys know!!!

Sockycat -- that is FAB news!!! It's always good to get feedback and it means you're doing so many things right, and you are SO close. Keep us updated on your journey (no doubt I'll see it on Twitter!).

Emaree -- you are an inspiration to us all, truly!
 

Obi-Wan Nobody

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Congrats to all authors which succeeded so far, good luck to the rest of us. Just received another rejection, a couple of hours ago. I have collected 30 of them, so I am still confident. I will get worried over 100 rejections.
The response time on the last one is soooo looong.... 237 days.

I’ve also collected a full manuscript request, but this is what makes me sad. I sent them the MS four months ago, no answer so far.
Is it possible that an agent response to a query, but keep the silence forever on a full MS feedback? It seems odd to me.
 
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Shoeless

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Congrats to all authors which succeeded so far, good luck to the rest of us. Just received another rejection, a couple of hours ago. I have collected 30 of them, so I am still confident. I will get worried over 100 rejections.
The response time on the last one is soooo looong.... 237 days.

I’ve also collected a full manuscript request, but this is what makes me sad. I sent them the MS four months ago, no answer so far.
Is it possible that an agent response to a query, but keep the silence forever on a full MS feedback? It seems odd to me.

If it's been four months, you can send a nudge if you're really concerned, as long as you keep it short and polite. However, some agents have a pretty sizable backlog of full requests and may take some time before they finally get around to yours. When I finally got an offer for representation, and sent out notices to other agents, one of them politely stepped down immediately because there were so many other manuscripts to read, and mine was still untouched.

On the other hand, I have also had the experience of no response whatsoever to a full request, so that does happen as well.
 

Filigree

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I just had the sad experience of having to nudge three times on a full. Through several social media platforms. To no answer. I finally pulled the mms for a publisher offer.

It was a shame, since the agent was one I generally liked...but given their actions with me and other authors, I may not query them again on a new project next year.
 

RaggedEdge

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Agents are all over the board in terms of timeliness. Some agents request a lot of mss and don't respond predictably. Many agents read their fulls out of the order in which they were requested, and often there are good reasons. Sometimes they're in the midst of changing agencies and it's not apparent yet.

In general, I'd say the wait time for reads on fulls is lengthening, at least among US agents. I wouldn't nudge on a full before six months in today's current climate unless the agent has said otherwise or you have a genuine offer of representation and it's one that you'd accept.

Just my 2 cents. Waiting is rough. :e2grouphu

ETA: Filigree, that must've been frustrating. I commend your persistence - and I hope you'll be very happy with your publishing experience!
 
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noranne

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Congrats to all authors which succeeded so far, good luck to the rest of us. Just received another rejection, a couple of hours ago. I have collected 30 of them, so I am still confident. I will get worried over 100 rejections.
The response time on the last one is soooo looong.... 237 days.

I’ve also collected a full manuscript request, but this is what makes me sad. I sent them the MS four months ago, no answer so far.
Is it possible that an agent response to a query, but keep the silence forever on a full MS feedback? It seems odd to me.

Ah, I remember back when I only had 100 rejections... ;)

Actually, 100 Rs is right around where I usually shelve my projects, but that's (mostly) because that's how long my agent list is.

Also, if it makes you feel better I have a full that has been out for almost 16 months. I nudged and was told it's still under consideration so :Shrug:
 

amillimiles

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Agents are all over the board in terms of timeliness. Some agents request a lot of mss and don't respond predictably. Many agents read their fulls out of the order in which they were requested, and often there are good reasons. Sometimes they're in the midst of changing agencies and it's not apparent yet.

I was just wondering this -- what are some reasons for which an agent might change agencies?

Filigree -- that is so frustrating! You would expect agents to manage their communications well, as that is one of their key areas of service to the clients. In any case, congrats on the publishing offer!!!

Obi-Wan -- good luck! I guess one thing I would say if you keep getting rejections is: perhaps try to post your work in the Share Your Work forum here. The critiquers are so amazingly helpful and their feedback was imperative to ameliorating my writing!
 

Obi-Wan Nobody

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Thank you all for your helpful comments. It’s a damn game of patience, I hate the pace, but I am addicted to it. I wish you all to have a great week, with good news from your actual or future agents. :e2bear:
 

CJSimone

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A big congrats to EMaree and JJ; super happy for you both! :Clap::Clap:

Sounds like a lot of others are getting close.

It's tough and writers are definitely some persevering people!
 

diana86

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amillimiles - Wooo! Looking forward to hearing what this good news is!

Obi-Wan Nobody - I'm sorry about the R. :-( Yep, it's actually quite normal for agents to take a long time on requested fulls. I got a full request late last week from an agent who's notoriously slow... 8-10 months at *least*. Not holding my breath on that one. There are also reasons agents my skip around in their queue of full MSs aside from general slowness — conferences (where they get in-person pitches they may prioritize), pitch contests, etc.

Noran - 16 months and still considering! A true testament to the slowness of publishing. Sorry you're still waiting...

So... if an agent emails to request a phone call, how likely is it that they'll actually end up giving feedback and requesting a revision rather than offering rep? Has this happened to anyone here? Asking for an extraordinarily paranoid friend. AKA me.

(I'm not asking to humblebrag, I hate humblebragging, I'm literally nervous that I'm getting excited over something that's not what I'm hoping it is.)
 

Tamlyn

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diana - I know Janet Reid had a blog post at one point (I don't remember when or the name so google is unhelpful) mentioning that for her, at least, a phone call doesn't necessarily mean an offer. I imagine she's not the only agent in the world who would do that so it can just be about revision or seeing whether you could work together or whatever. I don't know how usual it is though, or if for most agents a phone call means an offer.

So... I'm being unhelpful? :p
 

Shoeless

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So... if an agent emails to request a phone call, how likely is it that they'll actually end up giving feedback and requesting a revision rather than offering rep? Has this happened to anyone here? Asking for an extraordinarily paranoid friend. AKA me.

Congrats on getting the request for a phone call. That's a pretty big deal no matter what!

It will vary from agent to agent, but in most cases, the phone call will be to offer representation, even if they don't come right out and say so during the call. Most of the time, the initial phone call will be to feel you out, see whether you're a reasonable human being or a psychotic that manages to sound reasonable on e-mail, but can't keep it together once speaking to an actual human being. Other times, the phone call may simply be to see what you're like, and whether there's that "click" that indicates you two will be likely to get along just fine.

There are agents out there that make the phone call with the full intention of offering representation, but will "hide it" behind a request and revision. Mostly because they want to see how you react to this. If you blow up on them and start screaming about the sanctity of your precious words, that's already a big red flag and they'll be glad they didn't make the offer. If you agree to it, go back, look at your words, decide "Nope, still too precious," then hand it back in without making any of the suggested changes at all, that's also a big red flag. If you hear the changes, think some make sense, others don't, discuss it rationally, both come to an agreement about what changes to make, then go off, make them, and submit it back in a reasonable period of time, there will probably be a new phone call request, this time to actually offer representation.

However, regardless of what they actually say about their reasons for wanting to make a phone call, the fact that they want to speak to you at all is a pretty big indicator that they're very serious about you.
 

amillimiles

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So... if an agent emails to request a phone call, how likely is it that they'll actually end up giving feedback and requesting a revision rather than offering rep? Has this happened to anyone here? Asking for an extraordinarily paranoid friend. AKA me.

Diana -- Congratulations on the phone call! I think I can only say that it depends on the agent. But most of the time, phone calls are really good news!!! Even a R&R is amazing! Do keep us posted on how it goes.

So, I come with a question of my own, on querying etiquette. Supposing I received an offer of representation from a superstar, kickass agent I would really like to work with, and I already nudged the only other top agents I would like to consider. Supposing other agents not on my top list respond to my query and request materials, but I know I would not pursue with them given my current offer, is there a way to respectfully decline? Can I write, say, "Thank you for your interest! Unfortunately I have received an offer of representation that I would already like to pursue..." How can this be phrased in a nicer way?

Or is it always common etiquette to send materials? (Though this doesn't seem wise as I wouldn't want to waste anybody's time.)

Supposing.
 
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noranne

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Ooh Diana, how exciting! I don't know if a call is always an offer a rep but I'm sure it's never a *bad* sign!

So, I come with a question of my own, on querying etiquette. Supposing I received an offer of representation from a superstar, kickass agent I would really like to work with, and I already nudged the only other top agents I would like to consider. Supposing other agents not on my top list respond to my query and request materials, but I know I would not pursue with them given my current offer, is there a way to respectfully decline? Can I write, say, "Thank you for your interest! Unfortunately I have received an offer of representation that I would already like to pursue..." How can this be phrased in a nicer way?

This sounds like a nice problem to have! :) I would say that, upon receiving an offer of rep, you should nudge the other agents that are serious contenders and withdraw from the ones that wouldn't be in the running. But it sounds like the chance for that has passed, so now probably a somewhat-awkward email will have to ensue. I would not send them the material unless you are a) not sure that the offer of rep will actually happen or b) would seriously consider them if they also offered. A polite and honest email is probably best--"Thank you for your interest in BLAH, I regret to inform you that the manuscript is no longer available."
 

DrDLN

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If we can understand the reason for rejection, that's a huge success. Never give up. Good luck to all!
 

diana86

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Thanks so much for the replies, all! You're right that even if it's not an offer, it's a good sign. At least I'll know one way or another tomorrow.

amillimiles — I'd imagine the agents would prefer not to spend the time reading if you had no intention of considering them, so I don't think you should feel obligated to send materials. I'd just say something like, "Thanks for your interest in XYZ manuscript! However, I've received an offer of representation that I'm excited to accept, so I'll be withdrawing my query. But thanks again for your time and consideration."
 

amillimiles

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Got it -- thanks, noranne and diana86! That makes so much sense, and diana86 -- you phrased it in such a nice way.

Best of luck on your call! Keep us posted over here. :)
 

Jeneral

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Goooood luck to those of you who have calls! This is so exciting.

Diana, like others have said, the R&R over the phone does happen, but an offer is probably more likely. I had a few R&Rs in my day and they were all via email. When I finally had a call, I basically went in telling myself that it was probably an R&R because I like to prepare for the lesser thing and be pleasantly surprised. But that's me and my Eeyore mentality. Good luck!

Amillimiles, in all honesty, general wisdom is not to query an agent you don't want to work with. So once you get an offer, send out those nudging emails and let everyone respond. An agent that looks great on paper may be someone you don't click with over the phone. And an agent that looks not-as-exciting may be The One. It's not just about how high-profile and impressive their sales are. This is going to be a business partner in a sense. They need to really get your work.

I was lucky enough to get more than one offer of rep, one of whom was who I thought was my dream agent. But I ended up going with a different agent, someone who hadn't even been on my radar! An agent I'd queried had liked my MS but had a full list, so she passed it to her colleague, who called me on a Friday night to offer rep. We clicked immediately and when I hung up I knew she was The One, when 24 hours ago she wasn't even in the running.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't count anyone out before they offer or before you have a chance to talk to them. I mean, unless they're a schmagent. Then you can count them out. But just don't query them in the first place! :tongue
 
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