The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

All this talk of revised work vs new work made me curious, so I went back and totaled up the number of words in the completely new scenes: 9k. The other scenes I've been able to salvage at least some aspect from one of my three previous versions to build off of, though I'd still consider those heavy revisions. (Up to 48k now)

I think the people who have tons and tons of words at this point in NaNo either had really good outlines to work off, type really fast, or are really rambling. Or some combination of the three.

It's a new week! Hope it's a productive one for everyone! Pug, pug, pug, pug!

Hi everyone,

Still waiting on a response from my nudge to the last agent with a full. Pretty much writing it off now as it's been two months. Working on more revisions to the manuscript now before I send it out again. Had a burst of inspiration due to a great (/drunk) conversation with a fellow writer so going in a new direction and feeling enthused again! hope everyone had a nice weekend.

Lonegungrrly said:

42k! Wowza Hathor! I'm on 32k (also not revised stuff... I'm totally not competitive either honest though Wendy is doing awesome too!)

and I do also wonder about the quality of the people on 100k or whatever by now. I think there's a balance between being fast and being fast for the sake of it. Hoping to get a modest 1 or 2k done today because I've got two jobs to work today belughhhh! Pug pug pug pug

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WendyN said:

All this talk of revised work vs new work made me curious, so I went back and totaled up the number of words in the completely new scenes: 9k. The other scenes I've been able to salvage at least some aspect from one of my three previous versions to build off of, though I'd still consider those heavy revisions. (Up to 48k now)

I think the people who have tons and tons of words at this point in NaNo either had really good outlines to work off, type really fast, or are really rambling. Or some combination of the three.

It's a new week! Hope it's a productive one for everyone! Pug, pug, pug, pug!

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Not denigrating 45K in revisions. I just like to poke The Tree every so often to see if she's paying attention

I can do revisions quickly or it can take me a long time. So I can't even compare my revision speed to my own revision speed.

I hope you didn't put me in the category of tons and tons of words at this point. But if so, I think I'm a combo of typing really fast and rambling (or at least not bothering about word choice). It certainly isn't the good outline part. I'll have a beginning and an end in mind and assorted things to happen along the way. But how things happen, their order, and other stuff I decide to include -- all this comes when I'm in the process of writing. I could probably get incredible word counts if I had a detailed outline & actually kept to it.

And, of course, word counts are dependent on how much time you have to devote to your NaNo-type experience and whether the book is just coming to you or you have lots of tricky bits to reason through or stuff to research suddenly appears ("squirrel!").

LGG, you may catch up to me. On Thursday I'm flying to Florida to visit with family & I'm not coming back until Monday. I'm not sure how much, if any, work I can do when I'm there. They may all expect me to actually spend time with them. They probably won't want to sit in a room together, quietly working at their computers or reading. Huh. Anyway, this is one reason I've been really pushing it.

I'd love to finish draft zero by the end of the month, but it's unlikely. I can have the plot & dialogue just flow incredibly quickly at times, but that isn't something I can reliably count on.

Speaking of including other stuff, yesterday I say MC will lay low because what else can she do? This morning I have a crazy digression from standard myth in mind. Outline? I don't need no stinking outline.

Gah, I'm so behind on my nano! I can't tell if it's because there's something wrong with the story (shouldn't I be excited to write my new shiny?) or if it's because of my sub anxiety/depression. I probably should've researched and outlined better before November. But you all are inspiring me so I'm going to focus on writing today!

I just saw this link in another thread and it's all about "it's not just you." https://dailydahlia.wordpress.com/2014/11/12/its-not-just-you/ I think it's excellent. There's also a nice link in it about splitting from your agent, for those of you in that category.

love it, hathor, thanks for posting

Just in case anyone missed it the first time, this is the link that Wendy posted right before Nano started. I've been consulting it repeatedly, especially when I'm feeling a little stuck, and I've found it really helpful.

http://www.betternovelproject.com/blog/nanowrimo-outline/

And don't just read the chart graphic—if you scroll down past that, it lists all those same points again as links to page talking more about each one. There's also a link to a master outline.

Even if their outline doesn't quite fit your story, there's plenty of bits there that will help spark ideas.

Hathor said:

Not denigrating 45K in revisions. I just like to poke The Tree every so often to see if she's paying attention

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Sometimes I do

And no, I don't consider yours "tons and tons" of words. And you do have a very good point about how much time people are able to dedicate to writing. I feel like I must have more than most, in part because that's pretty much all I do when the kiddos are at school (which is only a handful of hours a week, but still more than most people get) and I do a lot in the evenings when Husband works late (which has been a lot this month).

Definitely can relate to a number of items in that blog post.

Aaargh. This happens all the time. I sit down to write. I think things through, mentally figure out how I will proceed, get started, and then a few minutes later my daughter calls and carries on about some perceived problem. (Doesn't live we us. All grown. Still wants advice or just someone to talk to.) Then I finally manage to go back to my draft and read something like... "What did she think I was going to do:" And that is it. I had something clever to say, but damned if I can remember it now.

Maybe I'll wake up in the middle of the night and remember

I'm definitely one who rambles on...and on. But also pushing myself really really hard to do this now BC traveling for thanksgiving this year. Oh, and I made a super detailed outline this time...which I followed for 3 days.

First off, thanks for the "it's not just you" link. Sometimes I get so impatient and have that "left behind" feeling. I also really liked that NaNo outline article. I have it bookmarked, and I may have to try it next year.

Whole lot of non-writing going on this weekend. Ren Faire yesterday, then recovering from the Ren Faire today. And just like that, the weekend's over. Pug pug pug pug.

I'm not sure presuming people with 100k plus have lower quality words is really fair. These people may be devoting themselves to it full time. Maybe they took the time off work or they've only got duties in the evening and have the whole day to write or whatever. As Hathor said, it's dependent on how much time you have to put into it - and those people obviously have a lot of time.

I don't have those massive word counts, but I can tell you one thing - my quality would probably be pretty crap by others' standards. It's the way I write first drafts. They are crap. But even with that, I know how to make them not crap later. I hold edits in my head, in a sense, even as I'm writing the dreck - but I need the dreck before I can think of the edits.

Now to go read some articles. Last time I read an article someone linked (not here) that was supposed to be inspiring, I ended up getting angry at the author's tone >>

Tamlyn said:

Now to go read some articles. Last time I read an article someone linked (not here) that was supposed to be inspiring, I ended up getting angry at the author's tone >>

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Inspirational pieces can be that way. They turn self-indulgent or condescending really easily.

Hi gang,

Lots of stuff to catch up on, so please do forgive me if I miss any of you. Amazing how the thread can move slowly for days, and then just skyrockets over 48 hours!

Heard back from my agent on the edits. He hated one of them ( ), liked some of the others, and overall still wants me to make the beginning atmospherically creepier. I totally get where he's coming from and even agree, and one of the reasons why I wanted to send him my revision relatively quickly was to figure out if I was in the ballpark of what he wanted. It's so hard to start working with someone new! Like starting a new job and figuring out how you get along with your team. Anyways, point being: even getting what he wants and why, and even agreeing, I'm finding it hard to come up with a solution. I think it's partly because my brain had already moved on faaaar away from this MS when I got my offer, so it's been a bit of a challenge to rekindle the love for the story and character and writing, and not feel sick of revising. Which, I realize I need to get over and QUICK because revising and re-revising is key, considering this is probably just the beginning (assuming editors like this thing). I'll get there, I know. Just whining. Thanks for listening.

**

Liz_V - I hope by now you've sussed out the query situation. Having read your posts and knowing that you've sent more than a dozen queries of the agent-vetted version, I definitely agree with others who say it's probably a good idea to take a different version out for a spin. I hope you start getting requests!

Emermouse - what Wendy and Hathor said: YA is a category, not a genre. So you definitely should be more specific. I know sometimes it's hard, whether because you're not sure what genre you are writing in, or because of fear of a saturated market. I think Wendy had a good idea about shopping your MS around under the broader 'speculative' umbrella. It's a way to avoid the 'dystopian' and 'post-apocaliptic' labels that agents seem to be shying away from at this point. Good luck!

JJ - I love the Twitter pics of your puppy and your descriptions of his love of water. Puppies are adorable.

noranne - sorry about the R, but glad you got some feedback on your opening pages from that critique group person! Good luck revising!

Talana - glad you're feeling better and sorry about the form R! Re: agents. I can think of a few, but dunno if you've already queried them. Let me open my spreadsheet and I'll PM you. Just bear in mind, it might be agents you've already approached.

fitzdiaz - I have a love-hate relationship with revisions, myself. The initial ones are truly my favourite part of the whole process. I mean the ones that turn the blob of horribleness of a Draft Zero into a decent 'first' draft. The ones towards the end of the process? Ugly, evil things they are.

bertrigby - sorry you've heard nothing from the agent with the full! That's so many levels of wrong. Has it been two months since your nudge? Or two months since you sent the full? If it's since you sent the full, it's really early times at this point. But if it's since your last nudge... I dunno, I think agents should have the courtesy of replying with 'still on my queue' or something. Non-responders suck.

Hathor - thanks for the link.

Tamlyn - I'm right there with you: my first drafts are terrible, but I know that I have the ability to fix them as I move along, but, like you, I need to get my barrage of thoughts and ideas on the page before I can mould them into anything resembling an actual story. That's why I call my first drafts 'draft zero.' They're simply too horrible and messy to deserve the label of 'first' anything.

**

NaNo - I'll definitely fail. For me, it was just bad timing this year, what with having to focus on revisions and whatnot. I'll still make a point of getting a Draft Zero under my belt as soon as I can. I will just not be in November. My grand word count so far? 12K Sigh.

MC - Do you have some betas that can read through your revised draft and comment on it? I found it really helpful when doing my revisions. I had an old beta read through the revised draft with my agent's notes in comment bubbles, and actually had a new beta (Australian River, actually) read it fresh. It was actually great having a fresh set of eyes as AR pointed out a lot of things that my old beta and I missed since we'd read my ms so many times.

I think I'm def going to be a nano fail this year too. I didn't write a single word this weekend! But I've been getting things done on other stuff, so it was still a productive weekend. I might send the first few chapters to my old beta to see if the story just isn't working and that's why I'm having trouble moving on it. If she gives it the thumbs up then I'll know it's probably from sub anxiety.

Happy Monday!

I'm trying to write more today. Yesterday I let myself get distracted by everything I could possibly be distracted by and only got 1K added. Oh well, these distractions were in part life stuff that had to be done.

Now I've completed the chapter I should have finished yesterday, trying not to get angrily distracted by the sound of chainsaws and all that goes with them . Remember the big kerfuffle we had in my neighborhood with someone wanting to build an inappropriate colonial McMansion around our more modest mid-century moderns? Now we have someone around the corner wanting to build an arts and crafts McMansion. Having told our architectural review committee he would cut down only 3 trees, the developer is currently clear-cutting the property unnecessarily, which will look horrid in our neighborhood full of mature trees and probably eff up the water drainage, too. The total was up to 11 yesterday, and more are coming down as I type away.

Unfortunately, while this is illegal, the county cannot stop him, only levy a small fine for each tree he murders. He was warned cutting down trees would piss off the neighbors, but appears not to care.

I'm so irritated. I suppose you all noticed that.

I'm going to take a break and then try to focus on the next chapter.

On behalf of trees everywhere, that angers me, too.

Hathor -Yikes. That amount of noise would destroy anyone's concentration. Hoping you find a groove regardless.

Funeak - At least losing NaNo meant you tried. I didn't even draft anything.

Moonchild - Anyone you can think of would help. Yeah, I might have queried some already, but maybe there's someone who loves geekyness that I missed.

Tamlyn - It's really hard to find stuff that resonates with everyone. I click links and regret it plenty.

Jeneral - I took my daughter to the ren faire last month and it was so much fun! I worked at one for a couple seasons. It's a magical place (not like Tahiti).

Lena - I'm attempting an outline right now...which I will probably also abandon. At least I'm trying to pre-plan!

JJ - *WAVES*

Anyone I missed - Productive fairy dust for ALL!!!!!!!!!!

ME-
Crickets are tormenting me so much that I sent out six queries. I'm going to send out a few more too. I'm tired of nothing and need some rejections to feel alive, terrible but alive.

Take that crickets! 10 new queries sent to obsess over. ><

Moonchild said:

H

bertrigby - sorry you've heard nothing from the agent with the full! That's so many levels of wrong. Has it been two months since your nudge? Or two months since you sent the full? If it's since you sent the full, it's really early times at this point. But if it's since your last nudge... I dunno, I think agents should have the courtesy of replying with 'still on my queue' or something. Non-responders suck.

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2 months since nudge and since June on the whole full. Blah. Thanks for the sympathy. I should prob drop her a line to ask what the deal is but I don't want to be a pain.

TalanaRay said:

Take that crickets! 10 new queries sent to obsess over. ><

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Hathor, that makes me so sad for the trees! I hate seeing trees go.

I've been mostly MIA because, after I spoke with my agent, I've been buckling down on editing The Prequel, since she's going to follow up with editors and hit them with the pitch for The Prequel this week. I'm still struggling (a lot) with one of the four storylines. I was grappling with it all weekend and am still struggling, though I *think* I have an idea for how to fix it.

Also, I went to a meeting for the local chapter of the Historical Novel Society this weekend. They are my kind of people!

Cricket-sympathies to Talana, bertrigby, and anyone else who needs 'em.

Revision-sympathies (the other R meat) to fitzdiaz & Moonchild, and to bertrigby even if you don't need 'em. I hate revisions with the burning fiery passion of a thousand suns, personally.

And real sympathies to anyone who's not writing, because boy, do I sympathize with that.

I try not to make assumptions about quality based on speed. When it comes right down to it, I think most people define "too fast" as "faster than me" -- and since everybody's faster than me, that would mean everybody else is writing crap! From my perspective, both 40K by now and 100K by now are so far beyond my ken that there's not much to choose between them.

Hathor - Here's hoping a tree falls on his McMansion.

angeliz2k - Cool that you've found a copascetic local group!


I'm pretty much resolved to go with the new query. There's just one phrase I still want to tweak; other eyes spotted the bit I was least happy with, for the same reason I was unhappy with it, so that definitely needs adjustment. Which brings me back to how much I hate revisions, because if I knew a better way to say it, I'd have said it that way in the first place. Grumble, grumble, grumble....

Funaek - Good points, all! So far, only First Reader has had a crack at the latest version (I had about a half dozen betas for previous versions) Might not be a bad idea to recruit a pair of brand-new eyes, once I'm done.

Hathor - Ugh. That would drive me batty! Also, poor trees. Grrr.

Talana - Sorry about the crickets, but yay on sending 10 new queries! You never know! Right?

bertrigby - I don't think a nudge every couple of months is horribly rude or anything--unless she specifically said she'd get to you within X amount of time. Worst that can happen, is more radio silence.

angeliz - yay to chatting with like-minded people! Glad you had fun.

Liz_V - I hope you get awesome results with your new query!

JJ Litke said:

Inspirational pieces can be that way. They turn self-indulgent or condescending really easily.

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Just remember when it comes to any article on the Rules of Writing: the only rules that are set in stone are "Read. Write and Rewrite." Anything else, it's about what works for you. If you do your best writing while standing on your head, then stand on your damn head while you write.