The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

Liz_V · Jul 12, 2017

NotForUsThanks - At a guess, that's an agent with a fairly full list who was looking for a reason to reject. Or maybe she just *really* hates prologues!

Anyway, sounds like you're getting good response overall, if not *the* response.

Noranne - Have a great, big, "it's not you, it's them" R cookie.

In fact, R cookies all around. Sounds like there's a lot of us who need 'em right now.

Including me; I didn't make the next round in page70pit, which feels rather rejection-y. Oh well. There are still cookies.

sockycat - Congrats!! Two story sales is indeed a big deal. Have cake! :Cake:

JJ Litke · Jul 12, 2017

sockycat said:
So I started submitting stories for the firs time in March. My first story was accepted in May and then...nothing. Of my 50-some submissions I'm at 43 rejections. I saw that coming, and forcing myself to write short fiction has refined my writing so much it's bananas.

Then something equally parts confusing and exciting happened today. After month's of "thanks, but no" emails....two different magazines emailed me within 12 hours of each other accepting my microfiction stories!! They're smaller presses and I know it's not a huge deal, but it was such a huge boost of confidence for me. I'm probably way giddier than I should be.

Congrats, sockycat! You've every right to be giddy. Getting some credits is great, and you can't underestimate the value of that confidence boost.

I did the same thing, switching to short fiction. Helped me a lot, too.

sockycat · Jul 12, 2017

Thanks guys!! It's funny that they're both microfiction pieces and up until a few weeks ago I just assumed I would never, ever write microfiction because my brain was like "you're a novel writer! you don't do short things!" but they're honestly kind of a blast to play with.

I promised myself that if I got three things published within a year I would make an author's website

So that might be my project this weekend.

noranne · Jul 12, 2017

That's awesome, socky! And good luck with the site.

I've never quite been able to get mine quite the way I picture it in my head, but it's fun to tinker around with and I'm glad I have something.

RLGreenleaf · Jul 13, 2017

My novel is GREAT!

My novel is PERFECT!

It contains absolutley no errors, no flaws, and is the best novel ever written, second to none!

So...why can't any of the publishers and agents see that? :Shrug:

CJSimone · Jul 13, 2017

RLGreenleaf said:
My novel is GREAT!

My novel is PERFECT!

It contains absolutley no errors, no flaws, and is the best novel ever written, second to none!

So...why can't any of the publishers and agents see that?

sockycat said:
So I started submitting stories for the firs time in March. My first story was accepted in May and then...nothing. Of my 50-some submissions I'm at 43 rejections. I saw that coming, and forcing myself to write short fiction has refined my writing so much it's bananas.

Then something equally parts confusing and exciting happened today. After month's of "thanks, but no" emails....two different magazines emailed me within 12 hours of each other accepting my microfiction stories!! They're smaller presses and I know it's not a huge deal, but it was such a huge boost of confidence for me. I'm probably way giddier than I should be.

Congrats, sockycat!

JJ Litke said:
I did the same thing, switching to short fiction. Helped me a lot, too.

I've considered trying short fiction, but it's a totally different beast. I know it does help build up credits. But anything I write turns into a novel (I'm just getting started when I should be wrapping up). It's like some who write short fiction can't do novels (even when they're good at the short fiction and are approached about doing a novel). I'm doubtful I can do short fiction. If I get no where with any novels, maybe I'll give short fiction a real try.

JJ Litke · Jul 13, 2017

CJSimone said:
I've considered trying short fiction, but it's a totally different beast. I know it does help build up credits. But anything I write turns into a novel (I'm just getting started when I should be wrapping up). It's like some who write short fiction can't do novels (even when they're good at the short fiction and are approached about doing a novel). I'm doubtful I can do short fiction. If I get no where with any novels, maybe I'll give short fiction a real try.

I've never thought they're all that different. But I've always read a lot of short stories, too (my school library had a bunch of SFF anthologies). Maybe it matters what you're used to reading.

Don't you get ideas that you don't want to spend the time to turn into a novel, or the overal concept isn't big enough for that? Those would be good for shorts. Just jump ahead to the climactic scene and write only that.

sockycat · Jul 13, 2017

CJSimone said:
Congrats, sockycat!

I've considered trying short fiction, but it's a totally different beast. I know it does help build up credits. But anything I write turns into a novel (I'm just getting started when I should be wrapping up). It's like some who write short fiction can't do novels (even when they're good at the short fiction and are approached about doing a novel). I'm doubtful I can do short fiction. If I get no where with any novels, maybe I'll give short fiction a real try.

I always told myself that I wasn't a short story writer, that I didn't want to write short stories, and that I couldn't enjoy them....until I started doing it.

Admittedly my first few short stories weren't really "stories" because they didn't have any kind of arc with them. I think a good rule of thumb for novel writers that helped me is that when you start writing short stories, start out with only 1 or 2 characters, one problem, and one scene. Obviously as you get better at keeping yourself in control you can expand the amount of scenes and plot threads. But it's a great way to practice.

I cannot even begin to articulate how much of a difference and an improvement I've seen in my longform fiction since I started writing short fiction this year. I write tighter, I'm better at trimming, and even my descriptions are better. I tend to get to character a lot quicker.

And honestly, above all, writing and submitting short stories has been a fantastic excercise in teaching me how to deal with rejection. The first few hurt SO BAD. Now I'm up to 42 rejections since March, and when I get one my brain is like "meh, next one..." and it makes it feel SO MUCH BETTER when you get an acceptance--or hell, even an editor that rejects you but says nice things! I had a rejection from Flash Fiction Online that I couldn't even really be sad about because the editor in chief sent me two flipping pages of notes on my story, what she thought I could improve, etc.

And as with novel writing, the best way to get good at writing short stories is to read the heck out of them. One of my favorite magazines current is Daily Science Fiction. If you join their email list, you get a story in your inbox every day (it's free!). It's a SFWA qualifying pro-market, so the stories are pretty solid, and they're all under 1,500 words. Think of it as a daily lesson for your brain on how to do a lot with a little.

JJ is right. Take a smaller idea. Stick to one scene and roll with that.

Try it, try it, try it! At the end of the day it is writing practice, and your writing muscle needs different kinds of exercise

(can y'all tell I'm a total convert or what)

CJSimone · Jul 13, 2017

JJ Litke said:
I've never thought they're all that different. But I've always read a lot of short stories, too (my school library had a bunch of SFF anthologies). Maybe it matters what you're used to reading.

Don't you get ideas that you don't want to spend the time to turn into a novel, or the overal concept isn't big enough for that? Those would be good for shorts. Just jump ahead to the climactic scene and write only that.

Yeah, I've read mostly novels and little short fiction, so that might be a big part of it. My interest is generally in characters and I feel like you barely have a chance to get to know them in a short story (whether I'm reading it or writing it).

It's an interesting idea to jump ahead to the climactic scene and oddly I've never approached stories like that. Maybe that's the key to short stories.

My ideas usually are for novel length fiction, but I've had a few novel attempts that I stopped after a chapter, so maybe I could use those ideas and characters for a short story, which could work out better.

I appreciate the thoughts!

sockycat said:
I always told myself that I wasn't a short story writer, that I didn't want to write short stories, and that I couldn't enjoy them....until I started doing it.

Admittedly my first few short stories weren't really "stories" because they didn't have any kind of arc with them. I think a good rule of thumb for novel writers that helped me is that when you start writing short stories, start out with only 1 or 2 characters, one problem, and one scene. Obviously as you get better at keeping yourself in control you can expand the amount of scenes and plot threads. But it's a great way to practice.

I cannot even begin to articulate how much of a difference and an improvement I've seen in my longform fiction since I started writing short fiction this year. I write tighter, I'm better at trimming, and even my descriptions are better. I tend to get to character a lot quicker.

And honestly, above all, writing and submitting short stories has been a fantastic excercise in teaching me how to deal with rejection. The first few hurt SO BAD. Now I'm up to 42 rejections since March, and when I get one my brain is like "meh, next one..." and it makes it feel SO MUCH BETTER when you get an acceptance--or hell, even an editor that rejects you but says nice things! I had a rejection from Flash Fiction Online that I couldn't even really be sad about because the editor in chief sent me two flipping pages of notes on my story, what she thought I could improve, etc.

And as with novel writing, the best way to get good at writing short stories is to read the heck out of them. One of my favorite magazines current is Daily Science Fiction. If you join their email list, you get a story in your inbox every day (it's free!). It's a SFWA qualifying pro-market, so the stories are pretty solid, and they're all under 1,500 words. Think of it as a daily lesson for your brain on how to do a lot with a little.

JJ is right. Take a smaller idea. Stick to one scene and roll with that.

Try it, try it, try it! At the end of the day it is writing practice, and your writing muscle needs different kinds of exercise

(can y'all tell I'm a total convert or what)

Ha, ha, your enthusiasm for short stories does make it sound like fun!

I could give it a real try. What do I have to lose, right?

For short stories, I'd need to keep in mind the advice to limit characters and problems because I tend to have a lot of characters, a lot of problems and a lot of complexity in my writing.

Thanks for this!

JJ Litke · Jul 13, 2017

I'm way ahead of you rejection-wise, sockycat.

I just checked my stats on Submission Grinder and I'm at 152. My first several stories were eventually trunked after raking in a lot of Rs. Really I think the big problem with them was they were too common, already been done a lot, kind of stories. So it took a good while to get a sale, and honestly I did wonder if I'd ever get there. But if you persist, you can make it happen.

And like sockycat said, your writing improves, you get a little more accustomed to rejection, and once you get a sale, it does amazing things for your confidence. It's a lot of hard work, but then writing is in general. At the worst, if you try it for a while and decide you just don't want to write shorts, you got in some extra writing practice.

CJSimone · Jul 14, 2017

JJ Litke said:
I'm way ahead of you rejection-wise, sockycat. I just checked my stats on Submission Grinder and I'm at 152. My first several stories were eventually trunked after raking in a lot of Rs. Really I think the big problem with them was they were too common, already been done a lot, kind of stories. So it took a good while to get a sale, and honestly I did wonder if I'd ever get there. But if you persist, you can make it happen.

And like sockycat said, your writing improves, you get a little more accustomed to rejection, and once you get a sale, it does amazing things for your confidence. It's a lot of hard work, but then writing is in general. At the worst, if you try it for a while and decide you just don't want to write shorts, you got in some extra writing practice.

I might have to give it a try just to see how it goes.

RaggedEdge · Jul 14, 2017

Hi, everyone. It's been a while since I've dropped by. :hi:

Your latest convo is making me want to take another stab at writing short stories, too. I've only written a couple and didn't think I was cut out for it, for the same reasons CJSimone outlined. Good ideas shared here, thanks.

sockycat, congrats on the sales!

I've had a bit of a bounce in my confidence lately, too. The last manuscript I completed won a writing contest. The prize is a full MS evaluation by a very experienced author and teacher in the romance genre. I'm really tickled by the win! I'm interested to see what her feedback says. As it is, the judges' critiques were helpful, and their specific praise didn't hurt, either.

I needed this boost because I haven't had energy for this manuscript in months. I've entered it into two contests and it has been a finalist both times, but beyond the agents involved in the contests, cold querying has gone nowhere and I put it on hold after about 40 agents (this MS is still out with three agents; I've recently nudged one). As part of the contest, the winning excerpt is also being sent to an agent that I haven't queried, so we'll see if that leads to anything.

Thankfully, life is easing up now and I should have more energy for my writing again. Maybe a short story would be a good exercise to get my momentum going.

mafiaking1936 · Jul 14, 2017

Today's rejection of my short story from Fantasy & Science Fiction included the phrase "I thought this was an interesting premise," whereas most of them have no feedback at all. Should I take this as encouragement, a blessed drip of water to a desert-parched throat, or just a random mutation of generosity from a bored editor?

sockycat · Jul 14, 2017

So 4 things happened today.

1) I made a website. It's very bad and still a work in progress. But it's there, it's me, and I'm delighted.

2) My boss told me I'm going to start writing grants. I am equally parts horrified and thrilled.

3) There is a stray cat living in my apartment complex. She seems extremely skittish and emaciated. I left out a can of wet food on a plate and caught her scarfing it down, but when I opened the door to give her more she took off. So if anyone has any experience with making stray cats trust and love you, I'm all ears.

3) The universe must be feeling extra benevolent....because I got another acceptance!! It's for a flash fiction piece I loved but the form is kind of weird, so I didn't think it would sell. The magazine is Asymmetry, so it's token pay, but it's my first time ever being paid for something I wrote. I don't think I've ever been so proud of five dollars.

JJ Litke said:
I'm way ahead of you rejection-wise, sockycat. I just checked my stats on Submission Grinder and I'm at 152. My first several stories were eventually trunked after raking in a lot of Rs. Really I think the big problem with them was they were too common, already been done a lot, kind of stories. So it took a good while to get a sale, and honestly I did wonder if I'd ever get there. But if you persist, you can make it happen.

And like sockycat said, your writing improves, you get a little more accustomed to rejection, and once you get a sale, it does amazing things for your confidence. It's a lot of hard work, but then writing is in general. At the worst, if you try it for a while and decide you just don't want to write shorts, you got in some extra writing practice.

152?!?! oh my goodness--you get the persistence cookies!!

RaggedEdge said:
Hi, everyone. It's been a while since I've dropped by.

Your latest convo is making me want to take another stab at writing short stories, too. I've only written a couple and didn't think I was cut out for it, for the same reasons CJSimone outlined. Good ideas shared here, thanks.

sockycat, congrats on the sales!

I've had a bit of a bounce in my confidence lately, too. The last manuscript I completed won a writing contest. The prize is a full MS evaluation by a very experienced author and teacher in the romance genre. I'm really tickled by the win! I'm interested to see what her feedback says. As it is, the judges' critiques were helpful, and their specific praise didn't hurt, either.

I needed this boost because I haven't had energy for this manuscript in months. I've entered it into two contests and it has been a finalist both times, but beyond the agents involved in the contests, cold querying has gone nowhere and I put it on hold after about 40 agents (this MS is still out with three agents; I've recently nudged one). As part of the contest, the winning excerpt is also being sent to an agent that I haven't queried, so we'll see if that leads to anything.

Thankfully, life is easing up now and I should have more energy for my writing again. Maybe a short story would be a good exercise to get my momentum going.

Yay, yay, yay!! That's awesome! What contest was it? Maybe the author will read your MS and say "holy moly, my agent friend has been looking for something like this."

JJ Litke · Jul 14, 2017

mafiaking, that might be a personal R. You can try checking on QueryTracker and see what others are getting from that agent.

RaggedEdge said:
Hi, everyone. It's been a while since I've dropped by.

Congrats, RE! That's really cool, and it should be really helpful, too.

CJSimone · Jul 15, 2017

RaggedEdge said:
Hi, everyone. It's been a while since I've dropped by.

Your latest convo is making me want to take another stab at writing short stories, too. I've only written a couple and didn't think I was cut out for it, for the same reasons CJSimone outlined. Good ideas shared here, thanks.

sockycat, congrats on the sales!

I've had a bit of a bounce in my confidence lately, too. The last manuscript I completed won a writing contest. The prize is a full MS evaluation by a very experienced author and teacher in the romance genre. I'm really tickled by the win! I'm interested to see what her feedback says. As it is, the judges' critiques were helpful, and their specific praise didn't hurt, either.

I needed this boost because I haven't had energy for this manuscript in months. I've entered it into two contests and it has been a finalist both times, but beyond the agents involved in the contests, cold querying has gone nowhere and I put it on hold after about 40 agents (this MS is still out with three agents; I've recently nudged one). As part of the contest, the winning excerpt is also being sent to an agent that I haven't queried, so we'll see if that leads to anything.

Thankfully, life is easing up now and I should have more energy for my writing again. Maybe a short story would be a good exercise to get my momentum going.

Congrats, RaggedEdge, that's a big deal winning the contest! Hopefully something good comes of it with an agent.

mafiaking1936 said:
Today's rejection of my short story from Fantasy & Science Fiction included the phrase "I thought this was an interesting premise," whereas most of them have no feedback at all. Should I take this as encouragement, a blessed drip of water to a desert-parched throat, or just a random mutation of generosity from a bored editor?

I think it's at least a "graded form" if not a personal rejection, mafiaking, so that is encouraging either way.

sockycat said:
So 4 things happened today.

1) I made a website. It's very bad and still a work in progress. But it's there, it's me, and I'm delighted.

2) My boss told me I'm going to start writing grants. I am equally parts horrified and thrilled.

3) There is a stray cat living in my apartment complex. She seems extremely skittish and emaciated. I left out a can of wet food on a plate and caught her scarfing it down, but when I opened the door to give her more she took off. So if anyone has any experience with making stray cats trust and love you, I'm all ears.

3) The universe must be feeling extra benevolent....because I got another acceptance!! It's for a flash fiction piece I loved but the form is kind of weird, so I didn't think it would sell. The magazine is Asymmetry, so it's token pay, but it's my first time ever being paid for something I wrote. I don't think I've ever been so proud of five dollars.

Good for you, sockycat. No great advice on the stray cat; just keep feeding it, and usually even shy strays eventually warm up to you.

RaggedEdge · Jul 15, 2017

Thanks, folks. :thankyou:

(sorry, couldn't resist using that emoji; it doesn't get enough time in the limelight!)

Like sockycat, I also had my first 'paycheck' from my writing this week. The contest organizers reimbursed my contest fee of $20 as part of the win. I wouldn't have counted that but another more experienced writer said it's a prize and can count as income, and I decided it will. I took a photo of the check, but I'm tempted to frame it instead of deposit it. :tongue

sockycat, first to answer your question: the contest was put on by the Central Ohio chapter of RWA (this link probably expires at some point), but it was open to writers from everywhere. Second, congrats on the website and for another sale! Woot, you are hot!! Also, for the first 'paycheck' as a writer! That's awesome no matter the amount. It will go up!

No advice on the stray cat except to say its individual personality will factor into it. I've taken in two stray cats in my life (although one of them had to have been someone's pet originally because he was declawed and neutered - long story). They had vastly different personalities. Some cats start out shy and stay that way no matter how much you love them, but I bet it'll take more time to tell if this cat will warm up to you. Food will only help, I'm sure!

NotForUsThanks - Just want to commiserate with you. Openings can be so tricky, ugh. Sounds like you're trying to 1) write true to yourself, 2) write something you haven't seen a million times, and 3) set reader expectations appropriately for a complex, genre-blended story. All commendable. I really hope you get it to work.

Cobalt Jade · Jul 17, 2017

I got my first "official" rejection today, that is, one where the editor emailed me letting me know, instead of just ignoring me. It was for an SFWA eligible market and I had been keen on that publication for that reason. Ehhh, I will just have to sub elsewhere, I guess. I still have confidence in the story. Keep the train rolling along.

sockycat · Jul 17, 2017

RE- Totally, totally, totally frame it. I am framing my first 5 dollars from Asymmetry!

Cobalt- What market? Most of the SFWA ones are uber hard to get into. When I read through their stats on Duotrope I quake in horror. But don't be discouraged, just keep writing & submitting!

Cobalt Jade · Jul 17, 2017

Orson Scott Card's Intergalactic Medicine Show. It was a clean story, for me, with a YA flavor. But it could also have been read in an anti-religious dogma way.

sockycat · Jul 17, 2017

Cobalt Jade said:
Orson Scott Card's Intergalactic Medicine Show. It was a clean story, for me, with a YA flavor. But it could also have been read in an anti-religious dogma way.

Duotrope is telling me that they accept less than .78 percent of the stories submitted. It's probably less than that, since not everyone is going to log their submissions. I wouldn't take it too personal! Just send it back out there again.

noranne · Jul 18, 2017

Short story markets are brutal. Even more than agents, I think. But on the other hand, short stories take much less time and effort to write than a novel and you can send out as many as you like. Although since they don't generally allow simultaneous submission, it can take foreeever to work your way through a sub list. So definitely pros/cons on both sides!

I picked up MS7 and did a read-through and I sorta like it. So I think I am going to submit it for Pitch Wars after all, which I wasn't planning on. The timing might be bad, because if I do get picked the mentor period is right during what will be my first quarter of grad school, but I think I could make it work. Might even help me keep from going crazy by myself in a new city and everything. Besides, odds are very against me getting picked so I won't borrow trouble. I've definitely got some editing today before the sub window, but nothing so major that I can't get it done. I even wrote my query already and think it's pretty snappy.

Liz_V · Jul 18, 2017

RLGreenleaf - LOL! Yes, my novel is also the Best Novel Ever. Blind, blind agents....

*cough* *cough* :e2point:

RaggedEdge - Congrats on the contest win! (And hey, cash that check! Frame the picture.)

sockycat - I like the website. It's clean, simple, easy to read and find stuff on. And congrats!!! on yet another sale!

Re: the stray cat, food is usually the way to their hearts. If she gets so she'll hang around at all when you're outside, soothing talk and tossing treats in her general direction may help. Mostly, when they're that skittish, it just takes lots and lots of patience.

R cookies to Cobalt Jade & mafiaking.

noranne - Go you on tossing MS7 into the fray! And hey, maybe the bad timing will tempt the universe into giving you a win.

goddessofgliese · Jul 18, 2017

Do you need to reply to a email that rejects your full ms but invites you to submit future work?

I'm starting to get really tired of this long process. Normally I send ten queries every other week, then wait and decide if I need to tweak my query letter and beginning chapter (again!), depending on the response I get. But now I'm thinking of querying all the remaining agents in the next couple days. If anyone takes interest, great. If no one does, then it is what it is. At least I'll be done with this process!

noranne · Jul 19, 2017

goddessofgliese - that's what I always do when I get towards the end of my list. There's only so many times I can tweak, so at some point I just want to finish my list and be done with it. I think this past time I did about ~25 at once at the end.

The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

Liz_V

Not my first rodeo.

JJ Litke

People are not wearing enough hats

sockycat

noranne

the possibilities are endless

RLGreenleaf

Ummm, just one more chapter...

CJSimone

JJ Litke

People are not wearing enough hats

sockycat

CJSimone

JJ Litke

People are not wearing enough hats

CJSimone

RaggedEdge

I can do this

mafiaking1936

Nihil debetur. Nihil debens.

sockycat

JJ Litke

People are not wearing enough hats

CJSimone

RaggedEdge

I can do this

Cobalt Jade

sockycat

Cobalt Jade

sockycat

noranne

the possibilities are endless

Liz_V

Not my first rodeo.

goddessofgliese

noranne

the possibilities are endless