The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

Jeneral · Aug 1, 2015

MC, I was thinking the same thing that pinkbowvintage said. If it's a less mainstream type book a smaller press might love it?

TalanaRay · Aug 1, 2015

Thanks for all the welcomes! It moved to the new page, so it's hard to track everyone down. I'll take some of those cookies for sure, though. Settling in for the wait.

noranne · Aug 1, 2015

Hey, everyone! I've been following along for a while now, but didn't really feel up to posting because I felt bad about disgorging negativity all over the thread. Anyway, I'm feeling a little better now so I thought I'd just pop by.

Almost ready to call MS5 done and over. I found 2 new agents to query last week, so I did that, but basically all of the Rs now have rolled in and I don't have anyone else left to query. However, I did get a full request on what I thought would be my last query. It was a long shot, QT said he was closed to queries but the agency website did not mention it, so I went ahead and sent the letter (yep, a snail mail one). Imagine my surprise to get an email 2 days later! Ha. Anyway, I am not getting my hopes up about it because I got the feeling he maybe thought it was a YA novel and he said he rarely takes on new authors, but it did just help me feel not so despairing. It was the only full request I got on MS5, after 90+ queries. I haven't sent it yet, as he asked me to wait until after a vacation he was taking, so I will be sending that on Monday.

I am almost finished with MS6. I took over a week off and did no writing at all, hit a very low point where I seriously considered throwing the towel, but then last weekend powered through 6000 words in 2 days. That may not sound like much to some you word fairies, but for me it was a lot and a breakthrough in the story. Expect the draft to be finished in the next week or two!

I think the plan after MS6 is done is to go back and try to revive MS4 with some revisions. I only made it about halfway through my query list on that one, and I do think there is a good book there to be saved. I'll try to hammer something out while MS6 is resting.

Also, I am going to be submitting MS4, MS5, and MS6 to the Hodderscape open submission call, so I'll be putting together those submission packages.

I haven't decided yet about Pitch Wars. MS5 has been queried so widely that I don't think it would even do any good to make it in. MS6 isn't going to be ready in time. And MS4 is the one I submitted last year, and I haven't made any changes since then. I may try to submit MS4 again--I'd love a mentor to help me with it--but we'll see after the mentor bios come out.

So phew! That's what is going on with me. Oh and I am doing some more stuff on Wattpad, which is silly and doesn't get read much, but I enjoy putting my stories out there even so. Just short stories, still holding out for that debut novelist title with a trad pub.

Many hugs to everyone waiting and going through the fun or rejection and querying (or sub!). Cookies all around!

Roxxsmom · Aug 1, 2015

noranne said:
Hey, everyone! I've been following along for a while now, but didn't really feel up to posting because I felt bad about disgorging negativity all over the thread. Anyway, I'm feeling a little better now so I thought I'd just pop by.

Don't.

It is titled the daily rejection, after all, and is in the rejection and dejection subforum :greenie

Almost ready to call MS5 done and over. I found 2 new agents to query last week, so I did that, but basically all of the Rs now have rolled in and I don't have anyone else left to query.

I'm dreading that eventuality too.

However, I did get a full request on what I thought would be my last query. It was a long shot, QT said he was closed to queries but the agency website did not mention it, so I went ahead and sent the letter (yep, a snail mail one). Imagine my surprise to get an email 2 days later!

Woo hoo, congrats! Just goes to show.

I'm thinking of entering pitch wars, even though success would mean not querying again for quite some time. But I'm confused as heck about who all the mentors are going to be this year (the most recent list was posted in June of 2014 and I can't keep up with all the tweets), and I don't recognize a single person from last years list or see anyone who clearly writes or edits adult fantasy. So if the pool this year is similar, I may not have anyone to pitch who'd be interested in my writing. They do it by age bracket, not genre, but fantasy is a genre that makes people's eyes glaze over unless it's their thing.

noranne · Aug 1, 2015

I think there will definitely be a few who are interested in fantasy. I believe there will be 100 mentors! I am curious to see how they do the bios this year. Last year I remember having to click through ALL of them to find who was actually interested in my genre. That seems unwieldy with so many mentors!

Australian River · Aug 2, 2015

Funaek said:
Wendy - I've read the same thing about MG word counts. 20-30k though is low unless it's lower middle grade. I think the sweet spot is supposed to be around 35-45k, but fantasy and scifi can go higher I believe.

Yup...you'd need more around the 50k mark. For example, the first Harry Potter book, though slim, is around 70k!
My MG fantasy is 48k. It's ok, but it might be on the short side.

Australian River · Aug 2, 2015

Welcome back Noranne! And congratulations on the full.

I've sent 11 queries in 2 days, and want to reach 25-30 by Wednesday so then I can move on to my next project and then wait for the responses to roll in. I had already done a lot of research on the agencies and agents. I'd just been waiting on that full to come back, as the requesting agent had been my dream agent.
I still love the agency itself though, so I've picked another agent. If anyone has recommendations for MG fantasy, I'd love to hear them

WendyN · Aug 2, 2015

Anyone willing to take a look at a query letter for me? Hoping to polish it up before PitchWars, but want another set of eyes on it before I post it to QLH.

JJ Litke · Aug 2, 2015

WendyN said:
Anyone willing to take a look at a query letter for me? Hoping to polish it up before PitchWars, but want another set of eyes on it before I post it to QLH.

I'll take a look, Wendy!

Jeneral · Aug 2, 2015

Wendy, I'm around if you need another pair of eyes.

Funaek · Aug 2, 2015

Ditto, Wendy!

AR, I'm also MG fantasy and am in the middle of querying. If you have any questions or need some recs message me!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and woke up to a form R today. Blergh.

Jeneral · Aug 2, 2015

Funaek said:
Oh, and woke up to a form R today. Blergh.

Bleccccch.

Jeneral · Aug 2, 2015

First revision draft done. All the new scenes that needed adding have been added, and the MS went from 66K to 77K. I still have lots of spackling to do: make sure the new scenes transition right, weave the added plot points and themes through the text that was there already. So tonight I'm printing out the draft and I'll spend the next few days reading through it and making notes for what needs to be done. Feeling pretty good about it so far though. Yay! :hooray:

angeliz2k · Aug 2, 2015

noranne, congrats on the full request!

Funaek, sorry for the R.

I'm sure I missed a few in there, so forgive me everyone else. I made some lemonade popsicles, so I'll go ahead and pass those around on this lovely, hot summer's day. Good for those who just got an R and those who just got requests. Cheers!

[Oh, and I've spent most this beautiful summer day inside, beta-reading, writing, and doing laundry. Not a bad day, all-in-all.]

angeliz2k · Aug 2, 2015

Jeneral said:
First revision draft done. All the new scenes that needed adding have been added, and the MS went from 66K to 77K. I still have lots of spackling to do: make sure the new scenes transition right, weave the added plot points and themes through the text that was there already. So tonight I'm printing out the draft and I'll spend the next few days reading through it and making notes for what needs to be done. Feeling pretty good about it so far though. Yay!

Moonchild · Aug 2, 2015

Happy Sunday gang!

TalanaRay - :welcome:

Pull up a chair and have some delicious waiting waffles. We have booze too. And cookies--both consolatory and celebratory.

Jeneral - congrats on finishing the short story :partyguy:

and BIG CONGRATS on finishing your first revision draft! :TheWave:

That's a major accomplishment. Hope you had a celebratory glass of wine! :e2drunk:

noranne - welcome back and congrats on the full request! :snoopy:

Congrats also on re-discovering the joy of your latest WIP and making so much progress on it! :Jump:

Wendy - I can make time to look at your query today or tomorrow, if you're still looking for fresh eyes.

Feel free to send me a PM.

Funaek - Sorry about the R :Hug2:

Rs on weekends have got to be the worst. Except for the ones on Fridays, maybe. Cookie?

pinkbowvintage said:
Hey Moonchild, are you considering submitting to small presses if you can't land an agent? They may be a lot more willing to take on something that isn't super-duper-mainstream

Jeneral said:
MC, I was thinking the same thing that pinkbowvintage said. If it's a less mainstream type book a smaller press might love it?

Thanks guys. :Hug2:

Yup. That's Plan B. I've had enough of a positive response to the query and sample pages/partial, that I dared to think for a moment I might not need to go to Plan B. :Shrug:

But it's increasingly looking like that's where I'll be headed. I understand you're not supposed to query small presses at the same time as agents, so I'm pretty much waiting on the people who still have materials out there, before I start approaching small presses.

Nova Odyssey · Aug 2, 2015

Hathor said:
Not unless I get another computer. I now rely on a Surface Pro 2, and as far as I know, I'm stuck with the Microsoft-provided options for it.

I'm trying to be careful in terms of my hand position now, and the wrap is seeming to work. I only get this issue at roughly the 3-week mark of something like NaNo.

I did have a challenging piano piece assigned by my teacher this last week which could have aggravated it, too. And in my spare time I was reading on my Kindle, the one where I turn pages by pressing with my right thumb. It could be a combination of causes.

If my right wrist gets feeling worse, I'll have to force myself to lay off New Shiny for a bit. It's just I'm making so much progress at the moment. But who knows? After I finish the chapter I'm doing and the next one, I may have to stop and brainstorm for a while.

Hathor does handwriting help? I alternate between writing by hand and then computer. just asking. Then again my finger is swollen from all the handwriting I did today!

Jeneral said:
Nova, that's awesome! 104K? I seem to remember you having doubts that you could cut it down to 106? You rock!

Sorry about all the Rs. We need some good news up in here, dammit!

I am bleary-eyed, typing like a fiend, the sub call ends in 8 minutes, and my iced lattes are wearing off. 3500+ words since last night, and I still have to get the smutty part written. I don't even know how good this story is. I'm gonna try to get it all down, crash, then send it in tomorrow (I PMed the editor on Twitter and she granted me an extra day).

No matter what, it's been fun to play with, and a nice little break from my book. Which I will be diving back into tomorrow. Wheeeeee!

Hey thanks. Yeah, my goal was getting it to 108K, so the 104K was a pleasant surprise.

Roxxsmom said:
I think I know what my problem might be with querying...

Just read this interview with an agent, and this

depressed me to no end. Because I'd been operating on the assumption that things like prior writing credits and all that were the icing on the cake, but the quality of your query pitch and of your writing itself were the main things that got an agent's attention.

I've been taking the advice given at a couple of workshops and by Janet Reid that if you don't have past publishing credits or work experience relevant to your novel to not include it in the query letter. All I have is a workshop I've attended a few times (it ain't clarion or anything remotely that exclusive). Earlier today, I ran across another agent Q and A session that said pretty much the same thing--all three agents agreed that past publishing credits are the first thing they look at.

Kind of makes it sound like I'm screwed if I'm a debut author who doesn't write short fiction very often (and has yet to get any published). This conflicts with something I read a while back that said that over 50% of debut authors have no prior publication credits, but that was a few years old.

And what in the heck is a writer/publishing contacts? I've met an editor and a few writers in person at workshops, but I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to mention them in a query letter. So and so was my workshop leader at such and such conference, and she really liked my writing and gave me some useful advice about polishing this novel?

Is this resistance to agenting debut writers who don't have contacts already a recent trend in trade publishing?

I was also a bit confused about his saying a synopsis should only be 4-5 sentences. Aren't short synopses usually 1 page? That's shorter than a typical 150-200 teaser in a query.

I think you should read that as baloney for the most part, the rule for some agents who just want the next more guaranteed cash cow (or decent sales). Platform helps in the initial process I'm sure of screening "hmm, does this person come with privilege of some sort that I should know about-connections, fame, or simply a proven track record that will make this take off, whatever it is good or bad? Others want the potential of a good story to champion. Write on. I, for one, can't stand or can't stand to write short stories (Wendy don't have lightening strike me-I make many, many exceptions if you look in my library (nice shelves, by the way) including the one I bought of yours!

But I do understand the marketing potential of writing one, so instead spend time trimming down a key chapter of my novel and inserting what's missing to create a "short story". It might be why I have yet to ever get one accepted anywhere. I yams what I yams, though.

Moonchild said:
Well, poop. Woke up to a form R on a partial. Also, going through a what-the-heck's-the-point phase right now. I dunno, when three agents who have rejected the full state exactly the same concern (i.e., "this is awesome, you're a great writer, love the premise and the characters, BUT... I'm concerned about marketability because your theme is not 100% mainstream")... well, it kind of starts taking the wind out of my sails, ya know? So frustrating!

pinkbowvintage - sorry about the R

Nova - You are the Word Slayer! Good job! I'd say, let it rest for a while and then have yet one more pass. I bet you can bring that puppy down to 100K.

Jeneral - Holy molly, you are on fire with writing and re-writing! Keep it up! Oh, and have fun at your RWA meeting!

Roxxs - Dunno about that advice. I've gotten a few requests and I have no publishing credits whatsoever. I do make a point of mentioning my BFA in Creative Writing, but given that I've only gotten about a 10% success rate with my queries, I doubt that's made any difference.

Wendy - congrats on the new shelves! That's so exciting! They're like a blank canvas, waiting to be filled with new, shiny books! Oh, the possibilities!

Hathor - If I remember correctly, Hera was pretty badass and had lots of agency (beyond smiting Zeus's lovers and cursing his bastard offspring), so I'm sure you can come up with something non-farming-related that she ends up doing during their separation.

Moonchild- sorry about the partial reject and contemplation of all the others... I gotta think someone out there will appreciate it not being mainstream, maybe an agent that states that upfront in their wishlist... Yes, I'm definitely sitting on the book. Once I get the edits from the last two betas I'll use that as an excuse to re-read through it again and see what should be done. thanks so much for the solid advice!

SO today I had one of those magical days where you go outside and your novel comes to life. Granted the subject of my book is literally close to home and heart, but I went out to the park to finish writing a part of my synopsis that actually takes place there, only to find a toy sail boat with the backdrop of the NYC skyline representing the two time periods of my novel. Then I see one with the flag of a country the book focuses on, together with a pirate's flag. I mean, come on, universe- thanks for that flower. So I now have what I will call, Moonchild fashion, DRAFT NEGATIVE ONE of my synopsis (well, one last chapter to write tonight). Once I transfer it out of my spiral notebook and into computer land, I'll have DRAFT ZERO. It's getting closer people. Submission is getting closer.

Antonin · Aug 2, 2015

Welcome back noranne!

WendyN said:
Anyone willing to take a look at a query letter for me? Hoping to polish it up before PitchWars, but want another set of eyes on it before I post it to QLH.

I'm not query expert, but hit me up anyway! I'll help with the best of my mental facilities. Won't be able to get around to it until later tonight though.

Nova Odyssey · Aug 2, 2015

somehow I didn't catch some newer posts, forgive me if I missed anyone else...

noranne said:
Hey, everyone! I've been following along for a while now, but didn't really feel up to posting because I felt bad about disgorging negativity all over the thread. Anyway, I'm feeling a little better now so I thought I'd just pop by.

Almost ready to call MS5 done and over. I found 2 new agents to query last week, so I did that, but basically all of the Rs now have rolled in and I don't have anyone else left to query. However, I did get a full request on what I thought would be my last query. It was a long shot, QT said he was closed to queries but the agency website did not mention it, so I went ahead and sent the letter (yep, a snail mail one). Imagine my surprise to get an email 2 days later! Ha. Anyway, I am not getting my hopes up about it because I got the feeling he maybe thought it was a YA novel and he said he rarely takes on new authors, but it did just help me feel not so despairing. It was the only full request I got on MS5, after 90+ queries. I haven't sent it yet, as he asked me to wait until after a vacation he was taking, so I will be sending that on Monday.

I am almost finished with MS6. I took over a week off and did no writing at all, hit a very low point where I seriously considered throwing the towel, but then last weekend powered through 6000 words in 2 days. That may not sound like much to some you word fairies, but for me it was a lot and a breakthrough in the story. Expect the draft to be finished in the next week or two!

I think the plan after MS6 is done is to go back and try to revive MS4 with some revisions. I only made it about halfway through my query list on that one, and I do think there is a good book there to be saved. I'll try to hammer something out while MS6 is resting.

Also, I am going to be submitting MS4, MS5, and MS6 to the Hodderscape open submission call, so I'll be putting together those submission packages.

I haven't decided yet about Pitch Wars. MS5 has been queried so widely that I don't think it would even do any good to make it in. MS6 isn't going to be ready in time. And MS4 is the one I submitted last year, and I haven't made any changes since then. I may try to submit MS4 again--I'd love a mentor to help me with it--but we'll see after the mentor bios come out.

So phew! That's what is going on with me. Oh and I am doing some more stuff on Wattpad, which is silly and doesn't get read much, but I enjoy putting my stories out there even so. Just short stories, still holding out for that debut novelist title with a trad pub.

Many hugs to everyone waiting and going through the fun or rejection and querying (or sub!). Cookies all around!

Hey Noranne- feel good about your full. And I echo what's been said: no matter how cheery things get here, it's still the dejection and rejection thread...

Jeneral said:
First revision draft done. All the new scenes that needed adding have been added, and the MS went from 66K to 77K. I still have lots of spackling to do: make sure the new scenes transition right, weave the added plot points and themes through the text that was there already. So tonight I'm printing out the draft and I'll spend the next few days reading through it and making notes for what needs to be done. Feeling pretty good about it so far though. Yay!

Hooray for getting through it! :snoopy:

Australian River · Aug 2, 2015

Funaek said:
Ditto, Wendy!

AR, I'm also MG fantasy and am in the middle of querying. If you have any questions or need some recs message me!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and woke up to a form R today. Blergh.

Thanks Funaek! Did you compile a list or do you just use Query tracker?

pinkbowvintage · Aug 2, 2015

Moonchild said:
I understand you're not supposed to query small presses at the same time as agents, so I'm pretty much waiting on the people who still have materials out there, before I start approaching small presses.

Whoops...I've heard that too, but I have two partials out with agents right now, and fulls out with presses. Ah well. I still feel like my book might fit much better at a small press anyway.

noranne - Welcome to the thread. I am in absolute awe you have managed to write FIVE full manuscripts, let alone are working on a sixth, especially since you have endured so much rejection and dejection. Wow. Good on you. I've only written one manuscript, and I'm a total crybaby about my fear of having to discard it.

Have any of the rejections come with any sort of feedback? I'm wondering if there's a specific reason these agents aren't feeling your query. Perhaps your query can be revised? I'm not sure, I just always try to look for the way around these publishing problems. But congrats on the full, that is very exciting! I hope that turns into a "yes"

If not, small presses are absolutely worth a look. I may end up going that route, if I can.

Roxxsmom · Aug 3, 2015

I'm at 10k words in my new novel project. Not sure, exactly, where it's going or if I'm going to hit some snags. The protagonist is one of the support characters in the novel that's being queried and takes place before. I want it to stand alone, but it has to fit with the timeline alluded to in the other novel, obviously, and I'm such a discovery writer I dread learning things along the way that force changes in novel #1. Ah, well, if it doesn't find rep, I may just put it aside for now and let this one grow into whatever it needs to be.

Still, it's fun to be writing something new.

Hathor · Aug 3, 2015

Tried to rest my hand yesterday while still drafting a few pages. I'll be brief here because I'm still trying to take it easy. (Yay! goes the audience...)

Let's see.

Nope handwriting doesn't help; it hurts. Plus I'm too accustomed to typing now.

Funaek -- sorry about the R; but hurray for that draft!

noranne -- glad to see you back, a :Thumbs:

for your persistence and a big old :banana:

for the full request

pinkbow -- I'm not sure if any of us here with rep found it with their first book. I currently refer to my earlier books as learning experiences.

Wendy -- if you still need eyes on your query, mine are available. Is this still for Orion Trail or a different book? Hard to keep up with you.

Everyone looking into Pitch Wars -- good luck. Sorry you have to go through so many bios to find those who are interested in your category and genre. Yikes

Now it's off to New Shiny. With lots of breaks for my wrist.

Jeneral · Aug 3, 2015

Lordy. I started looking through the Pitch Wars bios and I'm so glad I'm not doing it after all. I would be so frustrated if I had to read through 100 different blogs to figure out who works with my genre. Oy.

I agree about first books being learning experiences. My very first book from about 10 years ago is forever locked in my hard drive, never to see the light of day. Oh, ghost story that I foolishly queried as women's fiction, I hardly knew ye.

Printed out my draft last night and stuck it in my notebook. I need a bigger notebook. I'm taking a day or two to get all my notes together in one place of things to look for in this read-through before I start. I hate to say it too loudly, but I don't think it's going to be that bad. (Famous last words....)

Hathor, I'm sorry about your wrist. I have similar issues with my right shoulder. I pulled it moving boxes like 10 years ago, and if I type too much it hurts really badly. I've had to bail on NaNo a couple times for that reason. Though change in position can help me - moving from my desk to using my laptop on the living room couch, for instance.

Happy Monday, everyone! It's a rainy morning here, and I'd really like to go back to bed, but sadly I have that day job thing.

krashnburn · Aug 3, 2015

Wendy--If you need another set of eyes, send it my way. 35k-60k is the norm for MG and don't use Harry Potter as an example of typical word count.

Hathor--"Krash says I need more sex." "Krash thinks I have too many characters." "Krash doesn't like farmers." Why does my beta-ing always get called out?????? Sheesh. Why is it never, "Krash loves men in kilts," "Krash likes references to pg 31," "Krash likes corn dogs"??????

PS I hate Mondays. *is grouchy*

PPS If you guys hold off for a bit on the PW bios, there is usually at least one kind soul that goes through them all and makes a list on his/her site going by age group so the look-though isn't so bad. YA peeps--it's just tedious even with that help.

The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

Cat wrangler

the possibilities are endless

Beastly Fido

the possibilities are endless

8-armed cyborg tree

People are not wearing enough hats

Cat wrangler

Cat wrangler

Cat wrangler

never mind the shorty

never mind the shorty

I write fluff and that's OK.

Marvelous

▐п╣�▀╪? ╧ы§�Й!

Marvelous

&#9812;

Beastly Fido

Goddess of Rationalization

Cat wrangler

I've gone to pink!

♔