Nonredeemable Characters

Just look to A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones for all your redeemable irredeemable character needs. Seriously though, I cannot think of a better example than Jaime Lannister. He nearly murders a child as soon as he appears on the scene and has a history of betrayal, death, and incest. There only thing likable about him is that he's pretty. And yet, over the series, his actions and character growth completely turn him around into, yes, a main character that people like and root for.

Basically, time and attempts at redemption can redeem any character, I think, as well as if the surrounding characters can eventually forgive him. If he never feels remorse for what he did, I think it'd be harder. If your MC/his love interest/the friends of A can within reason forgive him, so can the audience.

I second TAMaxwell.
One more example: In Tahereh Mafi's SHATTER ME trilogy, a bad guy is pretty much redeemed. I don't remember any examples from contemporary novels, though.

taeray said:

I was wondering about those books. I never got through the third. I struggle with overwhelming character death so I just couldn't finish that series. I knew Jaime seemed to be moving towards a redemptive arc. I might have to force myself to finish the books and see how Martin handled the transition.

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Those're some long books to force yourself through if you weren't enjoying them. If you don't care about spoilers, use the wiki entry for Jaime. You can read the whole page, but starting where the link leads will give you the idea of his progression through the books and how the readers see his redemption arc.

Jaime Lannister is not a good example. He never did anything truly villainous. His only "crime" was belonging to the antagonists' faction. He did a lot of things early on that could easily be seen as heroic (such as helping free his brother, and also slaying an evil king). Most of his "villainous" acts were directed by his father. And yeah he pushed Bran out a window. But Bran lived, so big deal.

In fact I would argue that there aren't any ireedemable characters that were redeemed in A Song of Ice and Fire (not even Theon). The truly heinous villains have not and likely will not receive any redemption. Sure most of the characters are gray but there exist extreme villains who aren't going to turn good.


For me, a couple examples of truly atrocious villains who became likeable protagonists are Bellick and Mahone from the tv show Prison Break.

There is actually a pretty easy formula to convert a villain into a protagonist. All you have to do is make the villain go through a series of events that essentially change them in a way for the audience to sympatize or at least empatize for them. In the case of Prison Break, it was Bellick going to prison with the others in the 3rd season while for Mahone, it was when his child was murdered.

Non-redeemable--would be anyone who enjoys causing/doing suffering to others: animals, people, worlds. There's no "I like white persians' ala Blofeld in James Bond, no erudite polite Hannibal Lector, just 100% loves the agonies s/he caused in others.

I've been thinking about this as well: trying to induce love in the reader for the antagonist and a desire for their redemption. Or, if it's a surprise redemption, having the reader be happy about it.

I think one of the big factors is re-associating the reader with them. The biggest reason, at least in my reading, that I despise a character is their choice to simply ignore and reject the value of other things. If a villain murders someone and then laughs, showing neither sign of internal conflict nor any care for that person in the slightest, doing it for some simply selfish/evil reason, I begin to despise them. But if later, the villain is alone in their room and their conscience begins to be plagued and their heart becomes torn, then I begin to re-associate with them. When they realize: "that person mattered! My God, I killed them! What have I done?" You begin to see their pain and their suffering born of something right in their heart: they finally are valuing the other person. They finally are seeking to do what's right. They finally are seeking something more than simply their pleasure or desire satisfaction. And so on.

Whining about their comfortable life and how awful it makes them feel is the biggest turn off for me. (Holden Caulfield please stand up)

If you don't want to struggle through Martin, there's a much shorter book you can read. A Night in the Lonesome October actually got me rooting for Jack the Ripper, or at least his dog. Okay, it's Zelazny, which means he can do things that lesser mortals can't. But still, it's a short book, and I didn't see an ebook edition, which surprised me, but Amazon's got it in used hardcover and paperback, so it wouldn't be too expensive.

Anyway, I think of that as the quintessential example of an irredeemable character redeeming himself.

ETA: And then you'll know where quicklime got his/her username from, as a side bonus.

I just saw the thread title and the Salvatores immediately popped into my head. Granted, I haven't read the Vampire Diaries books but on the TV show both of the Love Interests have a past of killing lots of people and they don't always have their humanity "switched off"... And Elijah, now in the spin-off The Originals, has a tendency to literally rip people's hearts out. And people still root for all of them.

What about the Throne of Glass series as an example? The main character's job is to kill people - but she is not a cold blooded killer, you see her remorse, etc. There are LIs who should be her enemy...I haven't read the last book yet, or the prequel book of short stories. Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for.

What about Swearengen from "Deadwood?" He starts out as terrible as they come. I don't remember if he succeeds or not, but early in the show he actually plots to murder a little kid. Somehow, though, by the end of the series you end up sort of rooting for the guy.

(If I recall correctly. I watched that series years ago).

The movie Grifters was a modernization of a 1950's noir book, I don't recall which. Really twisted movie with no good characters. But a very good movie. You may need a shower after watching it, but they are definitely unredeemable, and unredeemed by the end of the movie.

Ellaroni said:

I second TAMaxwell.
One more example: In Tahereh Mafi's SHATTER ME trilogy, a bad guy is pretty much redeemed. I don't remember any examples from contemporary novels, though.

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The MC in Courtney Summer's book, Some Girls Are is a good example of this in Young Adult. One of the most amazing examples of a character who you pretty much hate, but by the end, you are rooting for.

I recall several instances in books where a really, deeply good character began to 'root for' (or support, try to make good) the evil character. That has a large influence. I think, so long as the good character isn't being tricked or fooled. If, out of their own initiative, they seek the happiness and goodness of the evil chap, that can have a huge impact. Their 'valuing' of the evil character helped me as a reader do the same.

A bit of a strange example: Gollum in LOTR. I had more, but i've since forgotten, haha.

I've actually researched this while I was working on my WIP (now finished). You don't need to like the character or even a reader for that matter, but add good qualities to compensate the bad (ie a mean girl who bullies and is snobby. But she is the way she is because her parents don't care about her, which creates sympathy. Or maybe they beat her up, but she loves dogs). Even better in the story, for the character arc, the protag learns of his/her mistakes and ways he/she makes and realizes that towards the end he/she has to decide whether to continue to stay the same or change to become a better person while what is at stake in the story for them or whomever to reflect this change of character. As long as you show the character isn't going back to his/her old ways, then it would be good. Think of like Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol. We hate Scrooge, but by the time the end of the book, he's evolved into a better human being than in the start.

I read somewhere that we tend to root for characters who strongly want something and do the work to get it, even when their goal is evil. That's why many readers are so frustrated by characters who are aimless and spend a lot of time complaining, while Hannibal Lecter gets a pass. (I mean, we wouldn't exactly want to meet him in a dark alley, but we can enjoy him in fiction. And is he ever a hard worker, cooking all those meals! )

Also, I think self-awareness in an evil character goes a long way.

Bufkus said:

There is actually a pretty easy formula to convert a villain into a protagonist. All you have to do is make the villain go through a series of events that essentially change them in a way for the audience to sympatize or at least empatize for them. In the case of Prison Break, it was Bellick going to prison with the others in the 3rd season while for Mahone, it was when his child was murdered.

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Never worked for me. When I dislike a villain, if something bad happens to them, I'd be like, lol you deserve it. (Not a particularly forgiving person, nope.)

Pure theory, though: animal abuse. I'll never look past that. A lot of people agree, that's why an old classical trait of a "real villain" is kicking kittens--and if a villain randomly saves a kitten, it's a hint on their potentional redemption.
Animals can be replaced with cute kids or cute innocent people in general. Cute and innocent are key words.

I also think it's all about charisma and also about things seen as more or less noble.
Like, if a young king wanted to make his country a happy place and so he murdered every criminal ever... that wouldn't be the same as a merchant killing for money.
Actually a good way to redeem a villain is to make sure their victims aren't attractive, and I don't mean their looks. If you kinda hate their victims yourself (or at least they annoy you), it's easy to let it slide eventually.

I LOVE reading about anti-heroes or villains that are redeemed. But I guess the two biggest points of no returns for me would be no remorse for the actions the character had done and pleasure in horrendous acts. I would not continue the reading a book if those things happened, especially if they were combined. Or if it has to be like that, there has to be a really, really good reason for it.

Ellaroni's example from SHATTER ME is a good example (Oh, Warner...). Perhaps even Sam in BEFORE I FALL by Lauren Oliver, if you want an example from a contemporary novel.

MaryLennox said:

What about the Throne of Glass series as an example? The main character's job is to kill people - but she is not a cold blooded killer, you see her remorse, etc. There are LIs who should be her enemy...I haven't read the last book yet, or the prequel book of short stories. Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for.

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Throne of Glass is a terrible example. In the first book, you hear over and over again what a badass assassin the MC is, and yet you never actually see her kill anyone or learn the names or circumstances of anyone she killed in the past. I felt like the author wanted me to forget that this character had ever done anything bad.

One of the key things I do when I am working on the development of a character that I know I want to redeem is make certain that I know why they behave the way they do. From there I can consider whether or not I want the audience to know or understand this, and far more importantly, when. You mentioned that your character killed someone during a war. This does not give a character a free pass, but it does provide a context from which it is more conceivable that you may be able to get an audience to rally behind that character if things happen to him / her causing change.

For that change to be believable you must show the effects of the change--the before and the after--from various standpoints. (Via pov, dialogue, actions, etc. of other characters.) One example that I love which has not been listed here is Rephaim from P.C. and Kristen Cast's House of Night series. (He enters in book six.) Rephaim is responsible for the death of a beloved character, is the son (and prized favorite) of another eventually redeemed villain, Kalona, and ends up being the love interest of Stevie Rae, arguably the most important character in the series next to Zoey Redbird. People can say what they will about HoN and it definitely has its faults, but it got Rephaim and Stevie Rae right. (She is extremely important to his redemption, and not solely because they do end up together.)

I feel that showing how the character has changed both in relation to the new relationship and equally as much outside of it, is also important. Words without action are meaningless. Further, I think knowing what this redemption has cost the character is important, too. Do they feel remorse for the things they did? (Why? Why not?) Have they lost other friends, allies, family, etc. in order to forge this new path? Have they had to sacrifice a dream, goal, position of power, etc?

Another huge thing is the build up and the turning point. People usually don't turn on a dime. There is often a set up, even if its mostly building under the surface. That build up and turning point will often transition into the aftermath of what has happened, with the various reactions from various people, as I mentioned above.

Characters can change in any number of ways. As writers it is our job to ensure that readers can understand / follow and most importantly believe in that change. Good luck!