The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Jeneral · Oct 9, 2017

Liz!

I'm so sorry things didn't work with your agent. That's really disappointing. So those two books were pretty well subbed, so you can't snag an agent with 'em? Ugggggggggh. I'm passing you all the wine and brownies.

Pinkbow - glad you're on a roll! The revision cave is really agreeing with you!

I'm chugging (pugging) along... did more beta reading than actual writing this past weekend. I like beta-ing, but I really need to get my eyes back on my own work.

pinkbowvintage · Oct 9, 2017

Liz I'm so, so sorry. That's awful. You're amazingly resilient and I hope you find new representation ASAP!! And also, it was very brave of you to step up and terminate the contract. I know that would be sooo hard for me to do, especially since we're constantly told how much we ~need~ an agent. But I do think you'll find a new and better one.

Jeneral, same. Sometimes I beta/CP to distract myself from my own work, and I know I'm doing it.

Bryan, that's so exciting! Best of luck writing that adult novel

I want to write one too someday.

Bryan Methods · Oct 9, 2017

Angeliz, sorry to hear it didn't work out. But you have the huge confidence boost now of knowing you can write something else and find another agent, and that you've made it past that huge hurdle once already.

Thanks, pinkbowvintage! It's always been my plan to sort of alternate between YA/MG and adult books.

krashnburn · Oct 10, 2017

More (((HUGS))) Liz.

Congrats, Hestor!

hester · Oct 10, 2017

krash, thank you so much!!!

And ((((((((Liz)))))))))). I am so sorry

. Were both your books heavily subbed? Or is there a chance you can requery one or both?

angeliz2k · Oct 10, 2017

Thank you, everyone! It's wonderful to have so much support from other writers. I honestly would have been lost in this whole process without all the input and help.

Hester, I'm not entirely sure about whether both/either were/was extensively submitted. I have sketchy information, and, frankly, that was the reason for the split. I'm still trying to decide whether the second ms could be queried to other agents and what, if anything, I should tell them, and when.

spikeman4444 · Oct 10, 2017

angeliz2k said:
Hi, everyone!

I haven't been on this thread in ages and ages. People pass through, and I never posted a ton, but maybe a few of you will remember me. I signed about two and a half years ago (March 2015) with an agent. It's a long story, and I feel like it should end with something like, "Never was tale of more woe than that of Liz and her . . . whatever rhymes with woe."

The basics are this: we went out on submission in the fall of 2015 with ms 1 (Channing, a historical fiction set in the antebellum south), and we weren't getting much of anywhere (I suppose--again, long story). So we "stuck a pin" in that ms and went with the prequel (The Cotton Wars), which is a standalone about the parents of some of the characters from Channing and is set in the 1820's in Philadelphia and Georgia. That was summer (fall?) of last year. As you can tell, I became uncertain about what had happened when and how. I can't say where exactly the problem lay, except that, cough, it wasn't with me. It became clear that the relationship wasn't working out, so last week I terminated the contract.

Yep, I'm single again and on the market, y'all. Back to . . . well, square zero, since I now have two mss I can't query and no other mss that are ready to go.

Ain't the publishing biz grand?

Just thought I'd check in with that bit of news. If you don't mind, I'm off to lick my wounds.

Ugh, that sounds awful angeliz. That's the worst and I don't know what to say really other than keep your chin up and write the next one and a new agent will snatch you up and you will do glorious things and the old agent...who, naturally, changed her name to Sally Blunderbust McFoe, will surely be overcome with woe, after missing out on you and your marvelous writing talents, don't ya know!

polishmuse · Oct 10, 2017

Liz, I'm so super sorry. I hope you have better rep soon. :Hug2:

what an ordeal!!!

amillimiles · Oct 10, 2017

Aww, Liz, I'm so sorry. This just shows how much resilience and courage you need to find success in the publishing industry. It sometimes takes years, decades, even, and those who persevere until the end do see success. The world is full of quitters, and then those who eventually get what they want. Don't give up!

Shoeless · Oct 10, 2017

Sorry to hear about that, Liz. I was actually in a similar situation. Got an agent, things didn't work out, and eventually split. I got wrapped up in work and relationships and it took a few years, but I did eventually get representation again earlier this year. It can be tough to let an agent go, and even tougher when some time passes and you still can't get another agent, but always keep in mind that if you did it once, you can do it again.

pinkbowvintage · Oct 10, 2017

This business really can take a toll on your self-confidence, that's for sure. I'm knee-deep the revisions cave for Book 2 and am feeling overwhelmed and emotional tonight.

Putputt · Oct 10, 2017

I'm so sorry to hear that, Liz. I'm assuming you've e-mailed your ex-agent for submission info and she's chosen to ignore it? Is it possible to contact the head of the agency, or phone your ex-agent? I think it's worth trying to get the submission list, especially since there is a chance your books may not have been widely submitted...

dearendugoo · Oct 11, 2017

Okay ya'll. I feel like I know all of you because i've obsessively poured over this thread and read basically everything. I never joined because I would've of just posted things like "waiting sucks" and "when will I hear something". Alas, now I've reached the point where I feel I need to post something. I don't want to post specifics about my case as this is public forum and my agent is well known and well accomplished. Needless to say there have been numerous red flags though throughout the process. I've tried to communicate but I feel if I push too hard the relationship would end. I'm sorta at a loss. It was sent out to 20+ editors in one batch. It is unclear how many rejections we have. My question is would another agent even consider something that had been subbed that many times? I had interest from at least 3 other agents when I signed and feel like getting another is possible but don't know if I should ride this out or what. Advice? Feel free to PM me.

Shoeless · Oct 11, 2017

Ack. That sounds like you got "shot gunned." I know of at least one literary agency that has agents that do that, and they've gotten ripped to shreds for the practice in the Bewares & Recommendations sub-forum. It's not really a recommended practice. A good agent should have connections with specific editors and make submissions based on that insider knowledge and connection.

But honestly, it's a bad sign when you feel like you're at the mercy of your agent and don't want to push too hard for fear of losing that representation. That already sounds like a not-very-healthy client/agent relationship. It's supposed to be a partnership, not something where you feel like you have to apologize for not producing results, otherwise "You're gonna' get it." Even when I parted ways with my last agent, there wasn't any feeling of fear or hostility, the parting was amicable, based on my decision, and I STILL get along with that agent, no hard feelings at all, so your experience of living in fear of your agent's responses seems very unusual to me.

dearendugoo · Oct 11, 2017

so your experience of living in fear of your agent's responses seems very unusual to me.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I jumped in based on sales record and credentials. The other authors i'm in communication with feel similar. It's not good, but would probably not mind if our books sold. That being said, the whole thing feels pretty bad right now.

Fuchsia Groan · Oct 11, 2017

Liz, I'm so sorry to hear that. I second what Putputt said, though — keep asking for that submission list! It's totally standard and okay to request it.

I would keep asking for info in your case, too, dearendugoo. My agent keeps a spreadsheet with the dates of each sub and rejection (if any), which she sent along when I asked for an overview. Some agents may not be that organized, and some may not want to give you the editors' contact info. Which is fine — but they can still give you a list of imprints where they subbed, with rejections noted. Keeping you in the loop is important. My guess is that if an agent drops you after you ask for info (in a respectful way, and not filling up their inbox), chances are they were already going to drop you for some other reason.

Would another agent consider something that has been subbed 20+ times? If all those subs were rejected, the standard answer is no — look up what Janet Reid says about this. If the first agent already did a good job targeting the right editors for the project, few options will remain. That's another reason why it's important to know which imprints have actually rejected, which ones haven't responded to nudges, etc.

dearendugoo · Oct 11, 2017

Fuchsia Groan said:
Would another agent consider something that has been subbed 20+ times? If all those subs were rejected, the standard answer is no — look up what Janet Reid says about this. If the first agent already did a good job targeting the right editors for the project, few options will remain. That's another reason why it's important to know which imprints have actually rejected, which ones haven't responded to nudges, etc.

Thanks. I keep asking. the problem is I end up feeling like a psycho because it took like 4 emails over a two week span (each one got a response but not an answer to the question like the agent wasn't even reading what I was writing) to get the submission list. I felt like I was taking up so much time but all I really want are straight forward answers. Now with this rejection list, I've asked twice on email and tried to set up a phone call. It's probably going to take more and I end up feeling like the crazy one.

Quickbread · Oct 11, 2017

Hi, dearendugoo. It might help to switch your internal clock to publishing time, which is glacial. In any other business, two weeks is an eternity to reply to an email request. But in publishing, that's a blink. It also means that four emails in two weeks' time for the same request may seem like a lot from the agent's perspective.

How long have you been on submission? It's not uncommon to wait quite a long time (many weeks to months) before there's news to report. Before you went on sub, did you and your agent discuss how they'd communicate responses -- like how frequently would you get an update and how much detail would it include? Every agent and writer have different preferences for how they share this. I hope that helps. Good luck!

Quickbread · Oct 11, 2017

Hi, everyone! I've been out of the loop for a while here, as I'm still neck-deep in revisions on my MS, and that is becoming such a tired story to report. The good news is that I'm either really close to finished or to throwing it in a drawer. I got mostly glowing feedback from my sensitivity reader, which was a huge relief. But I'm rewriting a few chapters to fix a plot line. After that, I think I've maxed out the revision potential for this thing.

(((Liz))), I'm so sorry about your agent (and we were agency mates!). I like Putputt's suggestion of contacting a higher-up there to try to get that submission/response list if your ex-agent isn't providing this. It's worth a call for sure. You deserve an agent who'll give you their focus and attention.

Just going back a few pages to catch up on the latest, hi to everyone new! Sorry for rejections! Yay for new manuscripts and revisions! Yikes for scary plane rides!

CameronJohnston · Oct 12, 2017

Liz - so sorry to heard about your agent woes

I really hope you find a new agent soon. Nothing quite as dispiriting as getting an agent and raising your publication hopes only for them to be dashed. *sigh*

dearendugoo - it sucks to feel that way, especially with somebody who should be on your team. Communication woes are not exactly uncommon with busy agents (who frequentely have nothing to say as they are waiting too) but you shouldn't feel like you are walking on eggshells with them. Sadly once a particular publisher/editor has looked at and rejected that manuscript then that's kind of it for that market.

angeliz2k · Oct 12, 2017

Putputt said:
I'm so sorry to hear that, Liz. I'm assuming you've e-mailed your ex-agent for submission info and she's chosen to ignore it? Is it possible to contact the head of the agency, or phone your ex-agent? I think it's worth trying to get the submission list, especially since there is a chance your books may not have been widely submitted...

Thanks, Putputt!

Yes, I tried to get the submission info (sigh). That was what brought the situation to a head and precipitated the break. I don't want to talk details here, but I might PM you.

Fuchsia Groan said:
Liz, I'm so sorry to hear that. I second what Putputt said, though — keep asking for that submission list! It's totally standard and okay to request it.

I would keep asking for info in your case, too, dearendugoo. My agent keeps a spreadsheet with the dates of each sub and rejection (if any), which she sent along when I asked for an overview. Some agents may not be that organized, and some may not want to give you the editors' contact info. Which is fine — but they can still give you a list of imprints where they subbed, with rejections noted. Keeping you in the loop is important. My guess is that if an agent drops you after you ask for info (in a respectful way, and not filling up their inbox), chances are they were already going to drop you for some other reason.

Would another agent consider something that has been subbed 20+ times? If all those subs were rejected, the standard answer is no — look up what Janet Reid says about this. If the first agent already did a good job targeting the right editors for the project, few options will remain. That's another reason why it's important to know which imprints have actually rejected, which ones haven't responded to nudges, etc.

Thanks. I do have some form of a sub list, but again the situation isn't simple. I'm left in something of a limbo.

dearendugoo said:
Thanks. I keep asking. the problem is I end up feeling like a psycho because it took like 4 emails over a two week span (each one got a response but not an answer to the question like the agent wasn't even reading what I was writing) to get the submission list. I felt like I was taking up so much time but all I really want are straight forward answers. Now with this rejection list, I've asked twice on email and tried to set up a phone call. It's probably going to take more and I end up feeling like the crazy one.

I'm so sorry, dearendugoo. I see a lot of similarities between what I just went through and what you're going through, though I don't know all the details of your situation. If you don't feel like you have the standing to ask questions of your agent, that's a problem, IMO. Even if it's just passively (by not responding or responding incompletely), your agent shouldn't make you feel like you "shouldn't ask questions. If you'd like to PM me, please do.

spikeman4444 · Oct 13, 2017

So...good/bad news. I went about 2 months without hearing from my agent, finally got an email yesterday. It was an R from a top publisher, but it was encouraging in that they loved it but ultimately didn't think they could blow it up big because it's a genre they struggle with big numbers. So, this seems to be the common feedback for this MS, which is fine, because I know that the problem is not with my writing. I also found out my agent is now senior VP at her agency, and I'm not sure if that will occupy more of her time and make her less responsive or if it's just a title like any other and won't affect me at all.

In any event, I was feeling really low about the crickets from my agent and this was enough of a nudge to remind me that I'm still in the game fighting the good fight and now I'm ready to dive into editing and get the new MS in my agent's hands!!

Fuchsia Groan · Oct 13, 2017

dearendugoo said:
Thanks. I keep asking. the problem is I end up feeling like a psycho because it took like 4 emails over a two week span (each one got a response but not an answer to the question like the agent wasn't even reading what I was writing) to get the submission list. I felt like I was taking up so much time but all I really want are straight forward answers. Now with this rejection list, I've asked twice on email and tried to set up a phone call. It's probably going to take more and I end up feeling like the crazy one.

Totally understand that feeling. And you're entitled to straightforward answers. But at the same time, Quickbread is right that publishing is slower than you can possibly believe. An agent who is slow may be waiting on editors who are slow, or she may just be buried under work, or disorganized. Hard to say. (I don't want to imply that all agents are this slow to respond to basic client questions! Mine isn't. But it definitely happens.)

I think the trick is to be persistent in your queries, but space them well apart. No one can object to a gentle nudge every two or three weeks: "Hey, just checking in here; do you have that list of editors who have rejected yet?" Put a reminder in your calendar to nudge at generous but regular intervals. If you still get no substantial response after doing this for several months, that's when you might start to think, "Things aren't working out with this agent."

Several months feels like forever, I know. But that's how long agents wait before nudging editors, in my experience, unless they have another offer on the table. What do you other folks think?

dearendugoo · Oct 13, 2017

Fuchsia Groan said:
Totally understand that feeling. And you're entitled to straightforward answers. But at the same time, Quickbread is right that publishing is slower than you can possibly believe. An agent who is slow may be waiting on editors who are slow, or she may just be buried under work, or disorganized. Hard to say. (I don't want to imply that all agents are this slow to respond to basic client questions! Mine isn't. But it definitely happens.)

I think the trick is to be persistent in your queries, but space them well apart. No one can object to a gentle nudge every two or three weeks: "Hey, just checking in here; do you have that list of editors who have rejected yet?" Put a reminder in your calendar to nudge at generous but regular intervals. If you still get no substantial response after doing this for several months, that's when you might start to think, "Things aren't working out with this agent."

Several months feels like forever, I know. But that's how long agents wait before nudging editors, in my experience, unless they have another offer on the table. What do you other folks think?

thanks, I think that is good advice. It's hard when they write back right away without a correct response. there hasn't been a "let me work on that I'll get back to you" but I'll give it a try.

pinkbowvintage · Oct 13, 2017

So sorry for the R, spikeman. :Hug2:

Isn't it awful when they love it but can't buy it for whatever reason? That happened to me with a big editor at a big house for my first book and it was soo crushing. But yes, you know your writing is good!! I wouldn't give up on that book yet.

I had a long conversation with my agent today and we went over ideas for revisions on my book on sub. It was very very helpful, and I've already been revising but I feel like I need to do it all RIGHT NOW.

I highly recommend a phone call to touch base if you've been on sub for a while. I'd been so down of myself that hearing her enthusiasm for the project and confidence in it was enough to make me feel like 100x better.

The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Cat wrangler

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I've gone to pink!

New year, new avatar.

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permanently suctioned to Buz's leg

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

Great Old One

never mind the shorty

The snozberrys taste lke snozberrys

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

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