The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

It's all so insanely subjective though, isn't it?

Putputt said:

KS - Ack!! Hope you recover quickly!

Got another R today. Of the "Really enjoyed it but don't know if it would stand out in today's market" variety. I read this blog post by agent John Cusick yesterday, titled "Publishers don't want good books".

An excerpt:


Man, I am starting to wonder if this is what my books are like. The rejections he mentioned describe the Rs I've been receiving perfectly. I'm hoping that this isn't the case, but it's hard not to start doubting yourself, isn't it!

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Putputt, go and find Slushkiller on Making Light. It's an old piece, but it gives a great breakdown of the reasons work is rejected and should set your mind at rest. Also bear in mind that the Cusick article is clickbait to some degree, and that publishing is not the cynical institution you might think having read it; and that in the last two decades at least it's been the case that you need a really strong book to get published well. "Good" isn't good enough, if you see what I mean.

Take heart.

Pinkbow - Yeah, you're right. Just need to find that one editor...

OH - Thank you for the insight, OH. I currently have 3 books out on sub and 2 of them have been getting specific feedback ("Did not engage with the voice" or "Found the premise hard to believe"), but the 3rd one has been getting the vague "Not sure if would stand out enough" Rs and it's frustrating cause I'm like, "Tell me how to improve iiiit!" *shakes fist at sky*

Putputt said:

OH - Thank you for the insight, OH. I currently have 3 books out on sub and 2 of them have been getting specific feedback ("Did not engage with the voice" or "Found the premise hard to believe"),

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That sort of feedback tells you that the editor wasn't right for your book (or vice versa). It happens to even the most brilliant of books, and all you or your agent can do is thank them for taking the time to read it, and send it out again. There's no more feedback they can give you other than they didn't engage with your book in the way they'd have to if they were going to work with you on it for some time: it's a personal thing, much like my not liking aubergines, for example (I really don't like aubergines).

but the 3rd one has been getting the vague "Not sure if would stand out enough" Rs and it's frustrating cause I'm like, "Tell me how to improve iiiit!" *shakes fist at sky*

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Gah. That is frustrating.

Have a look at the book. Compare the rejections it's had. Is there a common theme to them? Because that might help. If not, consider reworking it to tighten it up a bit: it might need some of the stakes raising, or a subplot or two woven in, that sort of thing. But it's not easy, and it's going to be a lot of work, and you might find you can spend your time more profitably working on a new thing.

Hey all, long time no see!

Will update soon, but just have a quick one: how long on average does it take your agents to read MSs you send them? PM or rep is great if you don't want to post

OH - Thank you for the generous advice. I'm still in the midst of submissions and Agent hasn't suggested revising yet, so in the meantime I am working on a completely different project. No better way to stay sane-ish!

Earthling - 1st MS took him 5 days, 2nd took 1 month, 3rd took 2 months but he had surgery during that time and told me he wouldn't be able to get to it due to the surgery, so I was expecting that. I also thought he wouldn't be as enthusiastic about the 3rd book as it's one that's been shopped before, but 8 weeks after he received it he called me all excited and wanted to sub it right away, so a longer wait doesn't necessarily mean less enthusiasm. My previous agents took 4 to 5 months to read each revision...which is why they are my ex agents. ;-)

Hey, all! Baby author over here. Agent just sent my sub out yesterday. Five editors for the first round. I stumbled around the internet looking for places to commiserate in communal privacy and found this thread. Nice to meet you all! I read the last ten or so pages and am rooting for all of you!

Ksavoie - yikes, good luck! I had all 4 of mine removed ages ago, but since two were impacted and required minor surgery I had them done two at a time, so I can sympathize. Wishing you a speedy recovery!

Polishmuse - Welcome and hope you have a speedy sub process!

Putputt - I feel your frustration. So much of the sub process is about finding the right editor at the right time.

Earthling - my agent is pretty quick. Ranges from a week to a month.

Welcome, Polishmuse! You've come to the right place. Pull up a chair, and we'll pass you some drinks and pumpkin bread (or cookies, if you prefer).

Earthling: anywhere from 24 hours to 3 weeks.

Putputt: I'm sorry. I hope the next editor to read loves your book.

I finished my R&R and sent it back to my agent, who said she'd read this weekend. Eee! I hope she likes the changes. And that the editor does, too. Let the waiting begin.

Sorry to report I got another one of those "loved the writing, the concept, and the protagonist, but this is offbeat so how would I sell it" passes.

And my agent cut me loose. Said she had too much work for the time she had available, had to cut back, etc. Still loves my writing. But...

So it's back to the query trenches for me for a different book. Book on sub wasn't completely subbed (IMHO), but it was shopped enough no other agent is going to take it on.

Guess I'll be back here later. Maybe. There really needs to be a sigh emoji.

Good luck to everyone. I'll still monitor this thread for good news.

Ugh. I'm terribly sorry, Hathor. Do you have something ready to query?

Yes, I do have something ready to query. Once I come up with a query letter and a target list... gah. Thought I was through with that.

Polishmuse - Welcome! I never thought I'd find a place like this thread. It is quite the sanity-saver.

MM - Aaaahhh! I hope your agent loves the R&R!

Hathor - Ugh, I am so sorry to hear that. I'm glad you have something to query, but urggghhhh. How horrible. I'm so very sorry.

Hathor, you're being very adult about this.

I really don't like it when agents submit a book just enough to prevent other agents from being able to work on it, and then withdraw. It's so destructive. If they take you on, they should stick with you for long enough to either sell the book or know it definitely isn't going to sell. You deserved better.

Go and write another book. It'll work out.

Thanks for the solid advice, OH! Always nice to see you around these parts

Putputt - Clearly you have an agent who believes in you and your work enough to invest all of that time and effort into it. Take heart!

Hathor - I'm so, so unbelievably sorry. That is so painful. I wish you a quick re-querying process. I've heard of this happening to a lot of agented writers, and I agree you have a good attitude about it.

Hathor, you and I already talked, but let me add another UGH here. I hope the next querying round is quick and relatively painless.

RWA meeting this morning, my local chapter was desperate enough to elect me as secretary for this year. Very excited to wield my new power. And we're supposed to get a lot of rain tomorrow, so that would be a good time to hole up inside and make headway on these revisions. Life keeps getting in the way, and it turns out these revisions don't write themselves. Weird.

Oh, my attitude has been all over the place. I'm just forcing myself to be adult when I post Yeah, it would have been great if my book had been thoroughly shopped. But people have been cut loose after far fewer subs or simply ignored by their agents--or been told at the end that their work isn't good enough--so I have no call to be a big whiny baby. Just a little one.

I always thought this other book would make a stronger debut, but my ex-agent disagreed. Now I'm motivated to prove my point. Once I decide upon the title. I had a naming convention for my books, I, [insert goddess' name], but this next book doesn't have a goddess with name recognition. Its current title assumed Persephone would sell.

There needs to be a "What Title Should I Give My Book" thread where title whizzes help us title-challenged individuals.

Hathor, I am so sorry to hear this. Just remember, you won over some publishing pros with your voice and humor. Even if it hasn't yielded a deal yet, that means something. It's a tough market. Write more and go forth and conquer like one of your goddesses.

Treehouseman, argh. I'm so sorry to hear this, too. Take heart and hang in there.

And Putt, so sorry about the Rs, but you have an awesome voice and I'm pulling for you. Three books on sub must be so exciting/nerve-wracking! I could barely sleep with one.

Hathor - I'm so sorry. That totally stinks! I hope that you have a quick and rewarding querying time that ends with you finding an agent who believes in your books and your writing career.

Yeah, just have to pug, pug, pug along, right? I've been playing around with titles and taking a stab at a query letter. Also, I reread the beginning of this next book and I still like it, which is something, isn't it? Right? (I'm trying my best to keep out of that damned pit of despair. It never did anything useful for me.)

Ugh, sorry to hear that Hathor. I had high hopes for this (because I really want to read it!).

Hathor, that is the pits. Here's hoping for a really quick requerying process. Also, absolutely yes on needing a "help with titles" thread. Every title I came up with my agent was like, Ermmm... it was even one of the things they said during "the call" (it was THAT bad.)

Jeneral: congrats on your new role!! Wield your power mercifully

As for myself, VE Schwab tweeted about a browser extension she uses to block the web while she writes and I thought I would try it out. It's on Chrome and Firefox and is called Forest. It's kind of adorable, growing a little tree and yelling at you if you try to search the internet. I set it up to block me from checking email, twitter, and facebook, and managed to squeak out nearly a new chapter on new WIP today. Anyone else have tricks for dodging the distractions? Especially email, since many of us are on sub?

WhirlyGirly said:

Ugh, sorry to hear that Hathor. I had high hopes for this (because I really want to read it!).

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I want you to read it, too. I want everybody to read everything I write. Is that asking for too much?

Current working title is SCORN AND SARCAPHAGUS. But I've cycled through HUBRIS AND HIEROGLYPHS and PRIDE AND PAPYRUS. I don't offhand remember how many titles I went through with Persephone, even during the course of querying. The title my Egyptian work had when I sent it to my ex-agent was GAME, SETH, MA'AT. This got a definite ermmm... reaction. It seemed to make sense at the time. I reach the point when I don't know if something is good or not.

Really sorry Hathor. Like Old Hack said, you deserve better, and I'm hoping you'll find it.

Sending you lots of rum, Hathor.