The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Congrats Herstory!

That's too bad about the mixup with the magazine, Polish, but hey, you got published, so that's awesome!!!

As for me, my agent e-mailed yesterday to say that he's finally submitting to this editor I asked him about a while ago. We both think he might be a good fit, but coincidentally, my agent is also an author, and his agent had just submitted a manuscript he wrote to the editor in question. Editor passed on his manuscript, so now mine can be sent. Fingers crossed as always! Hoping everyone reports good news this week.

Fantastic news Herstory, looking forward to hearing all about it!

Hello all! Happy Monday! Long time no post — my second book that was on sub also died in early Jan (after a year on sub), and I didn't want to burden you all with my dreariness. There was much dreariness. But now I'm on sub for a third time (since mid-January)! I just completed an R&R one editor requested, and the waiting game restarts! It was actually kind of nice to be *actively* doing something as part of this process. But I'm not letting myself get excited — I did two R&Rs for my last book on sub, and neither panned out.

I also received my first CP feedback on my WIP, so I can dive into those to distract myself. Yay for distractions! But I was wondering: how many people do you include in your first CP round? This is the first time my husband wasn't my "alpha" reader — he has a GREAT literary eye and I trust his opinion completely, so I never hesitated incorporating all his feedback. But this novel was too high-schooly for his tastes, so I asked someone else, and I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion before diving into edits.

Oh my goodness so much has happened while I was MIA!
Jeneral - YAY for officially being on sub! I can't wait to see where you end up Writing the next thing is the only thing keeping me sane right now so I'm glad you got the okay from your agent!

CMI - I hope these new editors bring good things!

Spikeman - I have a lot of communication with my agent - we talk three or four times a week and she's always willing to e-mail or call. She's sent me everything from editors so far - the good and the bad. I think that's how she is with all of her clients but she also doesn't have a huge list.

Quickbread - That's so exciting! My parents fostered when I was a kid and it was always a great time. I made some lasting friendships and acquired a brother.

MartinaMay - Magical Shoes? That sounds amazing! Of course I love me some fantasy and YA.

PV- I can't wait for you to go back out! It's so exciting to have new things all pretty and polished.

PuttPutt - I abandon WIPs all the time for new shinys. They normally all get finished... eventually. Remember the first rule of sub is work on something else and pretend you're not on sub

Fuchsia- I am *super* excited that you're writing something else but I feel the revision woes I'm revising my scifi thing that my agent wants to send out in May and it's killing me.

MC- I'm so sorry for your loss. Writing after losing someone can be so hard. I hope everything is getting better day by day.

Herstory - I'm so excited for you! It's so great to see success stories, I can't wait to hear who picked you up.

Polish - Blah I hate mix-ups like that, but YAY you're getting published!

I am slowly but surely finishing this revision on the new scifi thing, my MIL left yesterday. so she is gone for now but they are talking about house hunting so I don't even know what's going on there. Last week we had a high driver smash through the front of my house (we live in a little subdivision on a quiet street), it destroyed our front bedroom and lawn so we are dealing with that nightmare now. It wouldn't have been a crime except the guy stole the car and then took off running after the crash, so now we are in the middle of a police investigation too and our front yard is a crime scene.

I also got my very first R from an editor last week - it was super complimentary it mostly just said she thought it was too mature for their list and we kind of knew that but she requested when she heard Lucy talking about it at a party so... I'm not sure if I'm even really that upset. Everything else might have just numbed me though. I'm going to go get drinks tonight. I really need one.

Diana - I'm so sorry your book died. But it's so great that you're already back out there and doing R&R's. I'm sure this is going to be the MS that lands you a publisher.

I normally have two CP's and two beta-readers for the first round, my husband is also my alpha-reader! Working on a new shiny is the absolute best way not to think about sub and I'm sure the third time is way more stressful than the first. I can't wait to hear that you've found a publisher!

Moonchild, I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. Sounds like he supported your dreams all the way. Hang in there.

Congratulations, Herstory! Exciting!

Oh no, VEH! I hope everyone's fine and you're fully covered for the damage. You very much deserve drinks tonight. Sorry about the pass, but it sounds like there's some editor enthusiasm happening, so yay for that!

Diana, I hope this R&R is the one. You've worked incredibly hard and weathered a tough and frequently discouraging process. On the CP issue, I tend to have very few readers — one invaluable long-distance CP and one in-person critique group, which gets just pieces, often as I write them. Partly it's just that I don't want to get confused by too many conflicting opinions. I can be very suggestible!

diana86 said:

Hello all! Happy Monday! Long time no post — my second book that was on sub also died in early Jan (after a year on sub), and I didn't want to burden you all with my dreariness. There was much dreariness. But now I'm on sub for a third time (since mid-January)! I just completed an R&R one editor requested, and the waiting game restarts! It was actually kind of nice to be *actively* doing something as part of this process. But I'm not letting myself get excited — I did two R&Rs for my last book on sub, and neither panned out.

I also received my first CP feedback on my WIP, so I can dive into those to distract myself. Yay for distractions! But I was wondering: how many people do you include in your first CP round? This is the first time my husband wasn't my "alpha" reader — he has a GREAT literary eye and I trust his opinion completely, so I never hesitated incorporating all his feedback. But this novel was too high-schooly for his tastes, so I asked someone else, and I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion before diving into edits.

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First of all, HUGE CONGRATULATIONS on completing an R&R! Your persistence is amazing and I just know it'll pay off. It takes a lot of guts to do those.

For my first book, I had at least 3-4 CP/betas, plus any comments from my agent and her junior agent. I felt that was a good number of people to help me flesh out the book and rework it.

For my second, I workshopped a lot of it in my MFA program so I had feedback on sections from about 10 different people (but not on the whole thing at once). That was insanely helpful. I got two sensitivity readers on deck, my agent did revisions on it, and now I'm waiting to hear from HER two beta readers in-house.

So I guess it really depends on the project, how long it is, how complicated the plot is, etc. I think 3-5 is a good # to aim for, and too many can make it overwhelming. After all, everyone has a different opinion/tastes, and there's a point at which you can over-edit.

I've got all my fingers crossed for you, CMI. I hope this editor is 'the one'.

I'm sorry you've had to set aside your second book, diana. But an R&R for the new sub already is fantastic. Three times a charm for the R&R, right? That's what I'm telling myself as I await news on my third R&R. As for CPs, I use 2-3 before sending my new book to my agent. If she asks for revisions beyond changing a line or two, I get another reader before sending it back to her.

VE: Interesting that MIL is looking for property in your area. Would you like having her living nearby? And I'm sorry about the R. The first is like ripping off the bandaid, right? Painful but part of the process. I hope you hear good news soon!

I'm still in waiting mode with my R&R. We've heard some news, but as you know, there are multiple hurdles to jump over before you reach the finish line. And plenty of sand traps that can trip you up along the way.

Fingers crossed for the R&Rs!

Good luck with R&Rs, guys!

Still waiting on one more response on Round 1 or any kind of word from agent, but feeling more at peace this week and less edgy. Things will be what they are and all I can do is work on something new. Started brand new thing today and already loving the idea. I wanted to write something funny and a bit madcap, so I'm letting whatever happens in draft zero happen. I can always tidy it up later.

Happy Tuesday everyone! Question for the day: what do you listen to while writing? Does it change with each MS? Do you need complete silence?
For me: I listen to a lot of indie, guitar-heavy stuff usually, or sometimes classical music. Most often lately, I've been listening to nothing at all, but I think I'll get back into music because I find it helps me focus.

Herstory - Congratulations!!!! Can't wait to hear the details!

Moonchild - I'm so sorry about your dad. My thoughts are with you and your family.

Good luck to everyone with the R&Rs! So far on my current ms, I've had three R&Rs. So frustrating. While I can see the kind of book these R&Rs would lead to and understand the appeal the book would have, I don't know if it's the direction I want to go in. I'm also putting off tackling any revisions as I work on other deadlines for the next few weeks.

VEHust - Thanks so much! And I'm sorry about your first editor R last week. At least it had more to do with their list than your book!

Fuchsia - Thank you! I'm suggestible as well, but I go the opposite approach and have a dozen CPs/beta readers before sending to my agent (or querying, whatever the case may be) to sanity check that there aren't big common issues. But I've never done this first round of feedback with anyone besides my husband before, haha, so I'm torn on what to do next.

Pinkbow - Thank you! Good luck with your agents' beta readers, hope they all have glowing reviews and that there's not much more work for you to do! ALSO CONGRATS on your deal with Diversion, that's new news since I last posted!!!

Martina - OMG, I hope the third time's the charm for both of us! Is this your third R&R for the same book? How long have you been waiting on this one? And yes there are so many stages depending on the house — 2nd reads, editorial board, acquisitions. My first R&R fell apart at acquisitions, but the second was turned down by the editor (I think she was too busy and didn't even bother reading, which was pretty disheartening after putting time into it).

Polish - Most of the time I need complete silence to write, but when I listen to music, I choose movie soundtracks (just instrumentals) and try to choose tracks that match the mood of the scene I'm writing.

Funaek - OMG three R&Rs! Did they all come in at once? Seems like there are an awful lot of R&R requests these days.

diana - Hope the R&R works out! I have three CPs who act as alpha readers.

Martina - News!! We can get excited even if you're trying to stay zen, right?

Funaek - Ugh, three R&Rs. If only there were almost-guaranteed deals at the end of them, but we know that isn't the case.

Me: Book #2 has been on sub for almost three weeks. Four fulls out, no responses on them yet. Had most beta feedback back on #3 and a small edit is needed; to make the antagonist less cartoon-villainy. I'm trying to work out how to make him better rounded when he's only 'on screen' for a few thousand words. I started #4 but my batteries burned out and I'm recharging.

So I'm at a loose end and if anybody wants a beta or alpha read, I'm your woman.

Thanks for the thoughts and kind words. I honestly don't know how people get past these losses all the time. I feel like something vital has been taken from me, from the world.

*

Good luck to everyone working on R&Rs, and sorry about the latest passes.

Herstory - congrats! Can't wait to hear the deets!

cmi - good luck with this new editor! Fingers crossed.

Moonchild, I missed your post. I'm so sorry for your loss.

*hugs* Moonchild. I lost my mother 9 years ago. Time doesn't necessarily make it easier, but I've become a master at forgetting. For a little while, anyway.

Diana: This is the second R&R for this book. The editor has had it two months.

Definitely zen, Earthling! I'm struggling to find inner calm.

Polish: I like quiet when I write. But I listen to music when I brainstorm, which is often in the car. I lean toward songs that have a similar theme/feel as the book I'm working on.

Funaek: Did you do the R&Rs? I did the first R&R for my current sub, although I didn't necessarily feel it made the MS better. But the second was easy to do, and it did make the MS better. If it results in an R, we're subbing the new version.

Putputt said:

Spikeman - Agent communication... With my last MS, my agent and I had a call on a Thursday to discuss minor tweaks. I sent the polished MS on Friday. He okayed the changes and said he'd pitch on Monday. Monday night he e-mailed with a list of editors who had requested the MS. Wednesday he e-mailed with a list of more editors who had requested the MS, and then said he thinks it's out with a good number of editors already and he wants to wait for feedback before sending out to more. So there *is* a lot of communication going on and I'm kept in the loop throughout the process, which I think is fair. A friend of mine gets even more communication with her agent -- he forwards her everything, from his pitch to editor requests all the way to negotiations. Not sure how typical that is though. I've had a less than good experience with agents in the past, so I have very little patience when it comes to agents not treating their clients well. If you want more communication, I definitely think you're within your rights to ask your agent. I agree with cmi's suggestion of a polite but strongly-worded e-mail.

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I'm going to really start becoming pushy. I've been patient for 6 months and IMO that's long enough to give superstar NYC agent enough time to put me out there. I'd rather be the lone client for a smaller agent at this point. At least I would be given proper attention.

Diana86 - the first two came pretty close together and then the third one came recently. So close, but so far.

MartinaMay - I'm sitting on the R&Rs for a bit as I work on an early April deadline project. I've been thinking about them and am still not sure what to do. The last R&R was a vague one and it's the same one I did an R&R with last time that didn't pan out. The first two had similar feedback, but it would strip out some of the more fantastic elements of the story and make it more of a family drama, which I'm not sure I want. The first round was fairly small as my agent wanted to see if we got similar feedback. So I could say that I want to continue with the ms as is, but I think I'll probably do some form of revisions since it seems like we're so close but not quite there. Then again, maybe there's a right home for it as is? Good luck with your R&R! I'm glad to hear that at least one of your R&Rs resulted in a stronger ms. Keep us posted!

Ah, Moonchild, I'm sorry for your loss. I lost the grandmother who raised me a few years back. I swear, for five years I kept doing double takes at elderly women on the street, even to the extent of doubling back to see if it was her. Crazy, given I'd held her hand as she died. Guess I just wasn't ready to let go. It comes with time, no need to rush it.

On a happier note, congratulations on all the R&R's, guys! At the moment, I'd be happy just to see a single letter of that....so quiet!! The first two Rejections came so quickly, I thought this end of the business would at least be swift, if not painless. How wrong I was! Must admit, the thought of an R&R now pretty much terrifies me- though I do have one from a well-known publisher, but it was pre-agent, so we decided to try out some others first. The R&R would take the story in a much more generic direction than is current, so not keen. But it is at least confidence-bolstering to think it was 'almost there'. Now, if just a few other publishers would feel the same....

Spikeman, yes, you need to crack that whip! Though even with a smaller agent, communications not a given. I'm trying to limit myself to only harassing mine once a month (okay, so in real terms, that means once every ten days...but I'm careful to disguise some of those needy 'whathaveyouheard whathaveyouheard?' conversations as chats. ;-) Which I'm sure fools no one, but at least gives her an out to ignore me once in a while.

Moonchild, I'm so sorry for your loss. Big, big hugs to you and yours.

Congrats to all the R&Rs happening in here! I hope it all works out wonderfully!

Bleh...I just got an R for my last MS (the #ownvoices one), and I'm really, really bummed about it. It said the MS is "a delight", but that the editor didn't fall in love. I have about 20 similar Rs spread across my other MSs. This is the 4th MS I've had out on sub. FOURTH!!! I'm starting to think it will never happen for me. I seem to keep writing decent books that are utterly forgettable. At what point should I accept that maybe I'm just not good enough and I should pack up my toys and go home?

Sorry for the whinefest. After the unanimous love from my betas, even the toughest ones who ripped apart previous MSs, I had high hopes for this one.

Well guys, I'm no longer on submission. My book is officially dead, at least for now. I'm just so disappointed. My agent wants to know the status of my WIP, but I've found all the rejection totally debilitating. I feel so stuck, and I can't seem to finish even a first draft of this book, though I was so excited about it before. I know some of you have been through this. Any advice for how to bounce back?

Cristin - *hugs* I'm so sorry to hear that. I've been there multiple times, and right now I'm in a slump myself due to all the Rs. But in the past, what's helped are...

1. Working on a New Shiny
2. Whining to writer friends who are probably going through a similar process
3. Whining to Mr. Putt
4. Taking a break from writing for a while
5. I couldn't even bear to read books sometimes because I'd just be like, "Bwaaaahhhh, a published book! I wish mine were published toooo bwaaaahhh!" so I watched a lot of TV or played computer games...anything to take my mind off books and writing.
6. Exercise
7. Listen to angry I-am-never-going-to-give-up music
8. Comfort food and baking

Basically, be super nice to yourself for a while and do things that make you feel better. Don't rush into writing something else just because you feel you *should*. Again, I'm really sorry about this...I have three books that died after being subbed (one of them was subbed by two different agents on three separate occasions) and another that's looking like it's going to go in the same direction, so...yeah. *hugs*

Thank you, Putputt. Great advice. I'm really hoping your new ms is the one to get you a book deal. *hugs back*

Cristin, in your shoes I'd take a writing break. It will recharge your creativity and the urge to write will come back strong when you're at full battery.

Spikeman: Hope you can sort things out with your agent. If not, I'm sure you'll find a better fit elsewhere.

Hope this last editor is "the one." Polish. To answer your question, complete silence is ideal for me when I write (hard to come by, though). I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid, and I stopped taking the meds after a couple of years because the side effects weren't worth it for me, but I do need as little distraction as possible when writing.

Elsie, I hear you one hundred percent. My first rejection came after just a week of going out on sub. For the rest of them, I've had to wait at least a month before hearing anything. Frustrating, this process.

Sorry about the R, Puttputt. I know that every time I receive a "liked but didn't love" rejection, I feel as though I would have rather received something far less kind--the feeling that you came *this* close is unambiguously awful. Only you can decide whether or not you want to keep writing, but most writers I know seem to keep producing work regardless of how successful it is. Even if you need to take a break (which, of course, I think we all do from time to time), you'll come back to it eventually. And, of course, a reminder that the sub process is very, very long. There's still reason to keep the faith, as always.

I'm really sorry to hear that, Cristin. I think Earthling's advice is sound. I know that personally, my best work often comes after I've taken a few months away from writing. And just think, when you do finally start working again, you'll be so wrapped up in your new bright-and-shiny that you'll forget about everything else (this happens to me, anyway).

No news on my end. The new MS is going to be longer than I thought it would be. I originally estimated that it would wrap up in under 90k, but I'm at about 85 and feel that I still have about ten to fifteen thousand more words to go. This is obviously neither good or bad, but I am a little anxious to have my agent finally read it. As I've said here before, this new project is so different from the MS that's on sub right now--I worry that he won't like it after I've spent almost a year working on it. But what can you do, right? I can only write the kind of fiction I want to write--otherwise, it's not worth the time and effort it takes to write a novel.