First time 'subber' seeking advice. All help welcome.

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Alma Matters

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As a writer who is finally thinking about submitting short fiction I wanted some advice from those who have been doing it for some time.

My question is this; as a newbie starting out is it wrong of me to submit to those I have singled out because I enjoyed them and would like my work to be considered by these markets? Is it ok to approach more ‘well-known/pro’ markets or is it stupid and over sighted of me to not approach the smaller presses first?

I hope this question doesn’t appear arrogant, it is not because I think my work deserves the bigger markets attention – I am genuinely asking if I am going to look foolish as an unpublished writer subbing to a more established market without some stuff published elsewhere.

If it helps my stuff is generally dark fantasy and horror.

…be kind.
 

Maryn

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It's absolutely okay to start at the top, in terms of market. It's the smart thing to do, so long as you realize you're also completing against the best. Knowing that even helps rejections sting less.

Maryn, pleased to share good news for a change
 

Maggie Maxwell

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Aim high, aim big. Start with the highest market you want to shoot for. There's no harm in a rejection from the big leagues, and you may actually end up surprised. Well, no harm as long as you follow their listed guidelines for submission. If you get accepted by the smaller markets before going big, won't you always wonder if you could have gotten an acceptance from the pro you didn't try?

Someone here used an analogy for this that is just fantastic, I think. Look at market-subbing like you're learning to play darts. Would you start just trying to hit the board, or are you going to aim your very first throw right at the center and see if you can hit it? The top markets are the center of the board. You might hit it your first try, so why aim at anything less? :) Aim for the bullseye! Good luck!
 

Jamesaritchie

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Aim for the biggest market that takes stories like yours. Then work your way down the list until someone buys it, or until there are no markets remaining.

his is how you learn, how you get advice from top editors, and how you grow as a writer. There's also the fact that if you start at the top and work your way down, the best magazine that wants your story will get it. If you start at the bottom and work your way up, the worst magazine that wants your story will get it.

Selling to top magazines is fantastically difficult, but it does happen. A national magazine bought the first short story I ever wrote, and paid me slightly more than my nine to five day job paid in a month.

Give your stories a chance to sell to the best magazines. Even if they don't sell, you'll still learn and grow from the process.
 

gettingby

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As a writer who is finally thinking about submitting short fiction I wanted some advice from those who have been doing it for some time.

My question is this; as a newbie starting out is it wrong of me to submit to those I have singled out because I enjoyed them and would like my work to be considered by these markets? Is it ok to approach more ‘well-known/pro’ markets or is it stupid and over sighted of me to not approach the smaller presses first?

I hope this question doesn’t appear arrogant, it is not because I think my work deserves the bigger markets attention – I am genuinely asking if I am going to look foolish as an unpublished writer subbing to a more established market without some stuff published elsewhere.

If it helps my stuff is generally dark fantasy and horror.

…be kind.

Are you also reading the bigger publications? If that is where you want to be, it is important to actually read what those places are publishing. Read enough of them and you will know if your stuff will fit or has a chance with them, but read them. It is important.

I know submitting can be scary, but it is something every writer deals with at some point. Know you will get rejected and get rejected a lot. But there is always a chance. And if you are good enough, I would like to believe, an editor will recognize your literary contribution.

I don't want to publish for the sake of publishing. Anyone can start a blog and call it a literary journal. I am holding out for the big guys. And that will mean my stuff is really good when they take it. To me, that is more important than no-name publishing credits.
 

Alma Matters

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Thanks for the words of encouragement.

It makes sense, and I suppose I had figured the same as what your responses suggest, but it's nice to get a second opinion on these things.

Good point on reading the market you hope to get published in Gettingby. I have done this and I've ear marked of publications that I really enjoy but my stuff isn't for them.

Next step dealing with rejections... does knowing they're coming make it any easier?
 

gettingby

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Thanks for the words of encouragement.

It makes sense, and I suppose I had figured the same as what your responses suggest, but it's nice to get a second opinion on these things.

Good point on reading the market you hope to get published in Gettingby. I have done this and I've ear marked of publications that I really enjoy but my stuff isn't for them.

Next step dealing with rejections... does knowing they're coming make it any easier?

No, rejection doesn't get easier. I think it gets harder. I expected rejection when I first started writing short stories and submitting them. But now that I have written over 100 stories and received over 200 rejections, I'm really getting sick of it. I feel like I am in too deep to turn back now. What if it's the next story I write that gets accepted? What if it's the story on "second read" at my dream publication that ends up being my first sale? The what ifs keep me going. Rejection is always a hard thing and a bit of a heartache.
 

Jamesaritchie

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No, rejection doesn't get easier. I think it gets harder. I expected rejection when I first started writing short stories and submitting them. But now that I have written over 100 stories and received over 200 rejections, I'm really getting sick of it. I feel like I am in too deep to turn back now. What if it's the next story I write that gets accepted? What if it's the story on "second read" at my dream publication that ends up being my first sale? The what ifs keep me going. Rejection is always a hard thing and a bit of a heartache.

My experience is that it takes only one good sale to make you forget about all the rejections.

I do wonder about how much you're submitting. One hundred stories written, and only two hundred rejections? Are you keep all those stories in circulation, all the time?
 

gettingby

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My experience is that it takes only one good sale to make you forget about all the rejections.

I do wonder about how much you're submitting. One hundred stories written, and only two hundred rejections? Are you keep all those stories in circulation, all the time?

I stopped counting after I reached the 200-rejections mark. But you're right. It has to be more than that. The last several stories I've done haven't been sent out yet. I need to work on them a little more or maybe I'm just not in a hurry to get more rejections. I only have a dozen or so stories out right now. I know I should have more out, but a lot of my stories were more like practice stories. My new stuff is better, I think. But, if that's the case, I know I need to send them out. And I will when they are ready.

For me, I had a lot more drive to submit before I racked up so many submissions. I do think if I could get one acceptance, I could get that drive back. I guess I am struggling with what I even think of my own writing. I'm trying new things and continue to write stories all the time. And now that I am working on my MFA thesis, I am hesitant to send stuff out that I know I will be revising and reworking to include in my thesis. I think once my thesis is done, I will send those stories out because I will have taken them as far as I can and reworked them as much they need.

I know a lot of people here have had success with publishing short fiction. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong so that my work has a better chance at being published.
 

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No, I don't think it's arrogant to start at the top. Anyone is welcome to, and you have as much right to submit there as anyone else does.

But what will be best for you to do depends on different factors, including how rejection affects you and what you mean by the "top" markets. What genre? What are the acceptance rates and do you notice a heavy preponderance of big names or MFAs there, and how long is the wait and do they accept simultaneous submissions. How do all these factors sit with you?

If you are going to get discouraged by having your stories out for many months and in all likelihood getting rejection after rejection after rejection after rejection, there's also not a thing wrong with being more realistic and sending it to places where you have a decent shot at acceptances. Or a mix, say taking a shot at the brass ring with some stories and aiming for more likely markets with others (and hopefully, faster and accepting sim subs). Or perhaps sending a story to a top market or two, then going down a few pegs. Even the small, new publications are typically swamped with submissions and reject many more than they accept.

When a publication has a percentage rate of only half of one percent, for example, that is one in two hundred. If you've ever entered, judged, or read the entries for just about any literary contest, well, let me say there will be many good stories out of two hundred, and that's before we figure in the extra weight given to well known entrants. And many of those top magazines take many months to answer and require exclusive submission. It's not a lot of fun and of course very long odds.

I like that book about how it takes 10,000 hours to become very proficient at something. A huge factor there is motivation to keep at it. Personally, acceptances motivate me and rejections discourage me. I'll write ten times more at least if I get a steady stream of acceptances. And of course writing more is how you improve. And getting those stories out is how you build your name. Many people do read publications aside from just the very top few in your category, and then there are reprints.

My advice is first, if you haven't already, get those stories critiqued (and critique other stories in return- huge learning opportunity there). Don't send anything out that's had your eyes on it only.

Second, sign up with duotrope or submission grinder.

Third, don't listen to absolutes. Ever. Ha ha.

Good luck!
 
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Alma Matters

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Thank you again for the responses.

Fruitbat - there was some really good advice in your post - particularly in relation to figuring out how rejection will affect you as a writer. It has given me something to think about. Thanks.
 

Jamesaritchie

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No, I don't think it's arrogant to start at the top. Anyone is welcome to, and you have as much right to submit there as anyone else does.

But what will be best for you to do depends on different factors, including how rejection affects you and what you mean by the "top" markets. What genre? What are the acceptance rates and do you notice a heavy preponderance of big names or MFAs there, and how long is the wait and do they accept simultaneous submissions. How do all these factors sit with you?

If you are going to get discouraged by having your stories out for many months and in all likelihood getting rejection after rejection after rejection after rejection, there's also not a thing wrong with being more realistic and sending it to places where you have a decent shot at acceptances. Or a mix, say taking a shot at the brass ring with some stories and aiming for more likely markets with others (and hopefully, faster and accepting sim subs). Or perhaps sending a story to a top market or two, then going down a few pegs. Even the small, new publications are typically swamped with submissions and reject many more than they accept.

When a publication has a percentage rate of only half of one percent, for example, that is one in two hundred. If you've ever entered, judged, or read the entries for just about any literary contest, well, let me say there will be many good stories out of two hundred, and that's before we figure in the extra weight given to well known entrants. And many of those top magazines take many months to answer and require exclusive submission. It's not a lot of fun and of course very long odds.

I like that book about how it takes 10,000 hours to become very proficient at something. A huge factor there is motivation to keep at it. Personally, acceptances motivate me and rejections discourage me. I'll write ten times more at least if I get a steady stream of acceptances. And of course writing more is how you improve. And getting those stories out is how you build your name. Many people do read publications aside from just the very top few in your category, and then there are reprints.

My advice is first, if you haven't already, get those stories critiqued (and critique other stories in return- huge learning opportunity there). Don't send anything out that's had your eyes on it only.

Second, sign up with duotrope or submission grinder.

Third, don't listen to absolutes. Ever. Ha ha.

Good luck!

I don't think any of this is good advice. It's plan to fail advice. Fast response times and sim subs are just silly things to consider. Worrying about how long it takes makets to respond is a guaranteed way of killing sales.

Any market you're "likely" to sell to is a market that will probably kill your career before it even gets started. The worst thing you can list in a cover letter is several sales to markets where known names and MFAs are not the preponderance of acceptances. Such sales may cheer you up, but they look very bad in a cover letter, and are bad, if you really want to sell to top markets.

Funny things about getting critiques is that trying to find a successful writer in a big critique group is like trying to find a cavity in a hen's tooth. The worst writing I see by far is writing that's gone through a bunch of beta readers. Don't send anything out that's had your eyes only on it? Seriously? If that mattered at all, we'd have a high percentage of good writers who use beta readers. We do not. We have an incredibly high number of writers who can't write a grocery list, all of whom have been beta read to death.

No matter how much writers wish it weren't so, good writing comes from a single writer who digs down inside himself and writes from the heart. The only beta reader who can really help him is a working editor. Beta readers just turn what he writes into the same old, same old, they've read from other writers. It simply doesn't work. If it did, slush piles would be infinitely better than they are because darned near every writer in the slush uses beta readers. Except for most of the really good, original ones.

Duotrope is a good place to find markets, but using any place to see how long response time is, or what the acceptance rate is, not only won't help, it's just silly. No good market has a high acceptance rate. Selling to such markets has nothing whatsoever to do with acceptance rate, or odds, or anything else except being able to write well, and knowing what a good, publishable story is. Not submitting to a market because it has a low acceptance rate means you'll probably never be a top tier writer. The lower the acceptance rate, the better the market. And worrying about response time makes no sense at all. If response time matters to you, if you even notice it, you aren't writing and submitting anywhere near as much and a soften as you should be, especially if you buy into the 10,000 hours nonsense.

The 10,000 hours book is filled with pure nonsense, and has been proven wrong over and over, but people still cling to it because it's an excuse to still be bad at something long, long after those around you have started selling to top markets, and may even be rich and famous.

As for how rejection affects you, it's part of the writing life, and if you base submissions on how bad old rejections make you cry, you'll never get anywhere.
 

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Duotrope is a good place to find markets, but using any place to see how long response time is, or what the acceptance rate is, not only won't help, it's just silly.

James is right in that there's absolutely no point in studying acceptance rates or response times. Your chance of acceptance is exactly the same for any publication. 50%. They'll accept it or they won't, and they'll do so only when they're ready to do so. Truly, that's all you really need to know.
 
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