Should we avoid sad endings in Novels???

Gah! I was wrong about Samhain ... they don't publish anything where the characters die in the end.

So frustrating. I know SOMEONE out there publishes this stuff. Just wish it wasn't so difficult to find them. If I ever do, I swear I will buy every damn book they publish.

Just like HEA romance readers want a specific experience, I often want the specific experience of knowing a tragic end is coming. I sometimes feel like the only freak on Earth who wants this. Guess I'll just have to write a bunch of tragic love stories for my own amusement.

andiwrite said:

Gah! I was wrong about Samhain ... they don't publish anything where the characters die in the end.

Click to expand...

Unless it's their horror imprint. As far as I know, only one established small press takes love stories with tragic endings, and that's Dreamspinner which is M/M (for their Bittersweet Dreams imprint).

So the only hope is selling it to a big publisher? It'll just come down to finding an agent who is interested. Or self-publishing, I guess.

I found an interview with Nicholas Sparks, during which he talks about these types of stories.

"
In The Notebook, the narrator says that "the romantics would call this a love story, the cynics would call it a tragedy." Could that analysis be applied to all your novels? Is that how you see your novels, as tragic love stories?
Without question. I try to create modern-day versions of the Greek Tragedies. Sophocles and Euripides wrote their plays with the intention that the audience experiences the full range of human emotion, including both love and tragedy. More than that, they wanted to genuinely evoke these emotions without being manipulative. To read those plays is to "experience all the emotions of life." Shakespeare did the same thing with Romeo and Juliet, as did Hemingway with A Farewell to Arms. Modern day examples include Love Story by Erich Segal, The Bridges of Madison County by Robert James Waller, and The Horse Whisperer by Nicholas Evans.
Essentially, in this genre, the requirements are these:

• The story must evoke genuine emotional impact across the full range of human emotion without being manipulative.
• The story must be dramatic without being melodramatic.
• The characters, plot, and story elements must be universal (feel "real" to the reader), interesting, and original."

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/n/the-notebook/an-interview-with-nicholas-sparks


If he can do it, so can I, damn it!

Yes I enjoy writing pathos. This was a popular thing in the 19th century. How and when it became happy only, I don't know.

I wonder what he means by "being manipulative?"

Pathos is deeply satisfying to me, especially if it's woven with positive story aspects. The ending of Guy Kay's 'Tigana'. The ending of Tanith Lee's 'Delirium's Mistress'. The endings of many Terry Pratchett novels over the years.
Guess what? Not a one of them romances, although romance was a factor in each.

Personally, if I am not smiling through tears at a book's ending, I'm going to wonder if there was something wrong with it or me. It means the author missed a chance to guide sucker me all the way through catharsis.

I have my suspicions about why Dreamspinner chose to launch its Bittersweet line - possibly referencing the mainstream device of always giving the LGBTQ characters sad endings, and at least a few M/M writers wanting to reclaim the power of pathos?

I am perfectly capable of making my readers sob themselves silly. I have the fan fiction moments to prove it, and a few scenes in original fiction. But for science fiction and fantasy romance, I will not do that. It's against code.

andiwrite said:

I wonder what he means by "being manipulative?"

Click to expand...

Probably one of those eyes of the beholder things. I felt manipulated at the end of the Horse Whisperer, like the writer was trying to avoid making the FMC choose between her husband and her lover.

I seem to remember that the movie did a different ending.

Filigree said:

I have my suspicions about why Dreamspinner chose to launch its Bittersweet line - possibly referencing the mainstream device of always giving the LGBTQ characters sad endings, and at least a few M/M writers wanting to reclaim the power of pathos?

Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing, though I was thinking it was actually a reflection of the mainstream device of punishing-same sex characters by having all their affairs be tragic. Have some readers (I'm assuming most are heterosexual women) come to expect this to the point where a HEA actually feels wrong for two men?

As a beholder, I did NOT like the end of Horse Whisperer. To me it felt like putting a right shoe on the left foot. An ending like the one in The Bridges of Madison County would have been a better fit. But that goes back to the eye of the beholder, which is where I came in.

willsonjohn90 said:

Reading all your views about sad ending I have finally taken decision that I will go for bittersweet ending it will go with the flow of novel and I hope my readers will love it. Sometimes writer tend to do something different to attract the readers attention and it may fail but I think we should do experiments and also the end should justify the story.........

Click to expand...

That's great, and I wish you much luck with it. It's always best to write the story the best way you can.

Bitttersweet never went away - it just doesn't sell on the romance shelves.

And I just saw this article about why romance needs a happy ending (on Smart Bitches, Trashy Books). It sums up my feelings very clearly.

The beauty of the story isn’t in the ending, but rather the journey, and knowing that the ending will be happy allows romance readers to accept more angst and pain throughout that journey.

Click to expand...

That makes sense. But the opposite can also be true. Sometimes, knowing they have suffering coming to them makes it easier to accept the happiness along the way. It might be different for those who are happily married or in good relationships. If you're lonely or you've been through abuse, the HEA can be a little sickening at times. It really depends on my mood.

Sad endings in novels? The short answer is maybe.

There's a classic that I'd like to point out: 1984.

The way that book started was dreary, bleak. However, there came a bright, shining moment of hope. But that moment was fleeting, and it was ruthlessly crushed.

When I finished the last page of 1984, I was angry. Really, really angry. I was so angry, I'd talk to friends about it, venting that frustration. I wouldn't shut up about it. Then one day, as we were debating the whole premise of the book, it dawned on me: that was the point.

The book was about government control, and it was a warning to those who read it. It wasn't meant to have a happy ending, because if it had, it wouldn't have accomplished its goal - which I believe was to wake people up to the possibility that this book of fiction might just become real.

To come back to your question: if there's a reason to upset the reader, yes. If you decide you want to invoke that kind of emotion, be very careful - they'll associate your name with an ending they might not like very much. I still hold Orwell in very high regard - he was a damned fine author. His stories rattle my cage a bit, so I have to space out reading his work.

andiwrite said:

That makes sense. But the opposite can also be true. Sometimes, knowing they have suffering coming to them makes it easier to accept the happiness along the way. It might be different for those who are happily married or in good relationships. If you're lonely or you've been through abuse, the HEA can be a little sickening at times. It really depends on my mood.

Click to expand...

Or it can give a person hope or allow them to dream of something better. I doubt all, or even most, romance readers are in blissful relationships.

It's probably a mood thing for a lot of romance readers too. Many of them are perfectly happy to read bittersweet or sad books sometimes too, but that's not what they're looking for when they browse the romance section of the bookstore or Amazon.

andiwrite said:

That makes sense. But the opposite can also be true. Sometimes, knowing they have suffering coming to them makes it easier to accept the happiness along the way. It might be different for those who are happily married or in good relationships. If you're lonely or you've been through abuse, the HEA can be a little sickening at times.

Click to expand...

Maybe that's a good reason for romance and the HEA to be inextricably linked, then. If readers want something depressing or painful, they can try another genre. But if, like everyone commenting on that article, they want a comforting escape from real life, then it's right there for them in romance.

Dave.C.Robinson said:

Personally, I don't like sad endings. However, that's just a matter of personal taste, and I wouldn't want to deprive others of them.

Click to expand...

Same here. I hate sad endings, but again it's a personal thing. But sometimes, a sad ending can be a better fit for your novel.

The ending should fit your story - happy, sad or bittersweet. Whatever works.

The main character always is happy at the end.

namejohn said:

The main character always is happy at the end.

Click to expand...

Care to elaborate?