On cow behaviour. Specifically, fear.

This is a genuine question.... have you been close to cows? They are big! How big is the pen? Are the cows packed in fairly tight or is there room to move?

Historically cows were often not quite as enormous as they are now, but still pretty hefty.

They tend to rest lying with their feet tucked under unless the ground is a mess. Getting up is not an immediate process. Then they will tend to run at their best guess of "away", followed by further dashing to maintain a flight distance from the nearest scary person whilst staying more or less in the vicinity of other cows.

It is also entirely possible that well treated milk cows will just stand there looking at the men for a while until they are directly effected by the fight.

And if this is a pre-industrial setting they will all probably have a big set of very pointy horns that they will use as a last defense.

Cows, like horses, are flight before fight in nature. And they are definitely herd animals. So if the herd moves across the pen, a straggler may trample someone in a desperate attempt to rejoin the others.

'Slashing' and 'braining with an enormous mace' suggest this story is not in the here-and-now?

I don't think that cows are likely to stand quietly to be brained. Just the mace, whipping through the air, would make them jumpy. I imagine they will be ducking and dodging, and might get lucky and take out mace-man. Or, bury him under a wall of cow carcasses.

(I'm on Team Cow - stomp both these guys, girls, and live happily ever after! Cue their theme song 'Cows with Guns'.)

frimble3 said:

(I'm on Team Cow - stomp both these guys, girls, and live happily ever after! Cue their theme song 'Cows with Guns'.)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

MM

Yeah.... I would also be supporting the cows! Poor things, quietly minding their own business when two nutjobs invade their space and start killing them.

*cough* focus on answering the question, not speculating on the story, please.

Cows are very twitchy for such big animals, especially in close quarters, and panicking them shouldn't be too difficult. The problem is surviving the press of bodies and flying hooves, having a fight and finding a way to unlatch the gate is going to be seriously problematic and would make you very attractive as a general to Napoleon.
Hanging onto a cow would also take serious skill, but I don't think the cow would do much more than buck and stampede, although it might fall or crash into some of the other cows. An experienced rider clinging desperately might stand a good chance of riding the cow tired.

How would they react? Depends on the cows.

Cattle who're used to people might stare at the characters for a while before bothering to do much.

Cattle who aren't so used to people might try to amble off, and will probably end up milling around the pen until someone upsets them enough to hit 'stampede', at which point they're all running away. A stampede is quite good at going through whatever you're trying to pen it with. The direction of stampede is less likely to be towards one of the two scary things waving scary things around, but there are no guarantees.

Cattle who really aren't used to people might alternatively get aggressive, and good luck explaining to a quarter of a ton of pointy beef on the hoof that you want it to hurt that other person over there, please.

And if they got into a pen also containing a territorial bull by mistake, oops!

Personally, since you seem to be trying to make it fit, I'd start with what you want the cattle to do and work backwards from there?

I think Clare has it. The biggest worry with cows that are used to people is that they will lick you to death. But if one waves arms and speaks loudly they usually wander away.

He means the ability to direct what happens in a melee. When the stampede starts, it's pretty much in the lap of the gods who gets injured.

"Braining" a cow is anatomically difficult as the brain is smallish and under the poll when they are in a defensive stance--the poll being the heavy piece of bone where the horns are anchored

Emily, Team Cow

I grew up on a farm with cows. A lot is going to depend on the breed, and the personalities of particular cows. High strung breeds can be the most dangerous...especially if they have horns. Cows will tend to move away from strangers unless there is a bull on alert or an ornery cow...especially if that cow has a calf. I've not seen horned cows get aggressive but I've seen polled angus get seriously riled. After they knock you down they butt hard at your head and body while on the ground. We had one coward cow...until she had a calf. Got my uncle down and broke four of his ribs. He had to roll under a fence to get away. If you intend to steer a running herd, best have a cow dog and a quarter horse and know how to use both. Trampling could be a problem in close quarters. Horses will try to avoid stepping on you if they can (would rather bite and kick), but not cows...if you are in the way, you're a welcome mat. It should be noted, unlike horses, a cow cannot kick straight back. Safest place in a bunch of panicked cows...close behind the slowest one. They can kick to the side and back. Another not recommended escape plan involves spooking the cows into a run, grabbing on to a tail, sitting down, and butt surfing whichever way they are headed. Hope for no weak vertebrae and no cactus, and a cow too invested in getting away to stop and look at what's behind her. We had an English shepherd that used to do this...sort of funny to watch.

If you are in a pen with milk stock or work stock (like oxen) you have the opposite problem. They like people, expect to be fed and may knock you down if you don't. This is especially true of the bulls. Farmers make pets of them so they can handle them to medicate them and such. Some of them become very spoiled pets who don't (or perhaps do) know their own strength relative to a human...these are harder to drive and need to be coaxed and persuaded (cow dogs can help with the persuading). However, if you have feed, they will follow (may trample you a little to get to it)...but if you are dropping sweetened grain you can hide by hunching down and just walking away. To a distant observer, just a herd of cows headed to pasture. Don't try riding one. It scares them and they just spin and buck in a circle....you won't get anywhere but on the ground. Their backs are also a ridge of bone...except on very fat one...very uncomfortable to sit astride. If you want real shock interest, then write you a herd of these into the story...double muscled cows: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WseH479iOM0/maxresdefault.jpg

Addendum...braining a cow might not be as effective as you might imagine. Their heads are pretty hard and they butt other 1500 lbs animals head to head when they fight. A ball pean may concentrate force better than a maul (which will hurt them...but nothing close to a guarantee)... The way to 'safely' pacify anything but an utterly enraged cow (and maybe even then) is your thumb and forefingers....reach in their nose and pinch their septum hard...very sensitive...that is the point of the rings in bull noses. There are also special round tipped pliers for this in you can find them in time. You can also try grabbing the ears and twisting the head over hard...works best on juveniles and young cows. It causes them to loose their balance and fall over...if you are macho enough and strong enough you can generally do this with a cow (she wont be happy). Don't try this with a bull, you'll just irritate it. Nose pinch is better (pinch and pull upwards...cow will raise head and open mouth). Aka...what works with cows, does not work with Bison...can be lead, but almost impossible to herd.

Adding to the above

1 A cow treads on your foot, it HURTS.

2. Stir up cattle in the way you are describing and they may burst out of the pen. Fences that keep them in for ordinary handling may not stand up to a panicked charge. Bulls have been known to go through earth banks clad with a dry stone wall. Modern wire and 4 inch round stock post crumple like paper if they are trying. Most of the time stock stay in the field its because its too much effort to leave and they are not motivated to try.

One other thought - why are the cows in the pen? If you bring stock into a pen you usually then do something - drench, split them up into "sale" or "keep", move them on to a milking parlour. That generally means there are stock handlers about who'd take exception to the way their cattle are being treated.

efreysson said:

I read that line several times and I still don't understand it.

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Sorry, my bad. Napoleon wanted lucky generals more than he wanted good generals, and if you managed to pull off having a fight and unlatching the gate you would be very lucky. I didn't phrase that as well as I could have.

rwhegwood said:

Another not recommended escape plan involves spooking the cows into a run, grabbing on to a tail, sitting down, and butt surfing whichever way they are headed. Hope for no weak vertebrae and no cactus,

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and, I would imagine, a cow who doesn't need a bathroom break...

As for trying fight with cattle, jabbing at them (as with a goad) or simply flailing at them (as with, well, a flail) is probably a better idea than trying to bash or slash them. If the MC actually manages to get the cows to stampede towards the bad guys, the smart thing for them to do is put down their maces and RUN.

@ rwhegwood I concur that it has a lot to do with breed--but even more so with how much the cows are 'handled'. For example, dairy cows tend to be fairly calm because they are used to being around people and being touched and handled by them. Beef cattle only get processed (given vaccinations, wormed, etc) once a year or so, and as a result they're *really* skittish-- and a lot more dangerous because of that.