Men Have Problems.

Roxxsmom

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Monkey

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I used to peruse the MRA message boards now and then for giggles, but eventually I got bored of it. So, um, a few nights ago, I went on this site called ShamChat (don't judge me. No one else stays up until 4am and sometimes I need someone to talk to :D ) and I pretended to be a MRA, using the same "logic" I found on the forums, and quotes to the best of my memory.

ShamChat is all about pretending to be someone you're not. My chat partner was signed in as Nicki Minaj. At one point, though, they stopped pretending to be Nicki and acted really angry with me, lecturing me on how men's issues are a real thing and MRA's have some very good points to make and trying to "explain" the attitudes I was parodying. They swore, at this point, that they were both female and an MRA in real life.

The thing is, I know that there really are female MRA's, but I don't get how they can be anything but deeply misogynist, themselves, if they've ever joined an online MRA messageboard and decided to stay with the movement. Some of them can seem reasonable at the outset, but if you actually go into their chats or forums, the amount of sexism is only outweighed by the amount of self-entitled whining.
 

lilyWhite

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Evidently, the poor weedle MRA support group that contains some women (aka the Honey Badgers Brigade) trolled a con (Calgary Expo) in Canada and got kicked out. Cries of reverse discrimination and Godwining of feminists ensues. So there are some women who are MRAs too. Maybe the guy in the first post can go to a HB mixer and find his dream girl who loves his "intelectulism."

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/mis...-victim-when-kicked-out/#.VTV1xrgSCx0.twitter

I would recommend reading the Honey Badgers' side, because not only is "the ... MRA support group that contains some women" a woefully poor description of the Honey Badgers, they also provide evidence regarding the "trolling", which was nothing more than politely asking questions during a Q&A session that no one apparently had any problem with. At least until they had a pro-GamerGate poster for sale (in opposition to censorship, ironically), at which point the social media mob decided they were a "GamerGate booth" and demanded their blood, and so they were bullied out of the convention on vague charges of "harassment".

(They then decided to set up at a nearby park, since many people wanted to see them. So expo staff called the police on them.)
 

EMaree

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The Honey Badgers, they also provide evidence regarding the "trolling", which was nothing more than politely asking questions during a Q&A session that no one apparently had any problem with.

Funny you should say "no one apparently had any problem with" the interruptions, when a panelist has said exactly the opposite.

Going into a panel about getting “Women Into Comics” and asking questions about the way men are portrayed in comics, then accusing the panelists of portraying women as victims, is disruptive and flat-out rude to the panelists. The self-identified MRAs were trying to pull away from the topics in the panel and towards their own interests.

(The panelists dealt with the derail like pros, steering the discussion towards the lack of diverse representation in comics and recommending artists who excel at diverse body types. Nice work, panel team!)
 
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Monkey

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The Honey Badgers were started by two women who wanted to be Stay At Home moms and felt judged by feminist friends for it.

They also started a blog. Want to see what kind of certainly-not-sexist-all-about-equality shit they post?

http://judgybitch.com/2013/03/18/wh...ing-whore-registry-now-that-would-be-justice/

[After calling the Stuebenville boys' conviction a tragedy, they explain, saying:] Most of the facts in this case seem relatively incontrovertible: a young woman, who was not part of the regular social group, went to a football party, in a town mad for football, got trashed out of her mind, voluntarily accompanied two of the biggest football stars to another party, passed out and then got treated like a whore.
[...]
The law in Ohio states that ANY penetration, however slight, constitutes rape. Let’s start there. Comparing a stupid, drunk, helmet-chasing whore who gets fingered while passed out to an actual rape victim is completely and utterly absurd.
[...]
LittleTramp is free to go about her life, getting as drunk as she likes, chasing after any high-status males she likes, and securing criminal convictions against men who treat her like the whore she is.

Sorry, but I just don't find MRA's to be very reasonable on the subject of gender equality. Their own websites, forums, blogs, and words convince me otherwise.
 

Zoombie

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Maybe I'm naive, but I have a hard time believing a movement could rise from the likes of this guy. I mean, it just can't happen, can it? Can it?

Welcome to the glorious age of the internet.

Just as the industrial revolution created vast wealth - but also equally vast problems - just as the internal combustion engine created new vistas of technology - and equally alarming vistas of peril - so too has the internet given us something astounding...and something utterly terrifying.

The astounding thing...and the terrible thing...is that anyone can find support, camaraderie, and a welcoming chorus of their fellows - whether they're a transgendered person in the depths of a conservative town or country...or a neo-nazi surrounded by normal, well adjusted people.

There are a great deal of entitled losers.

Thus, there is an MRA movement.
 

Amadan

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I think "entitled loser" is only half of the MRA equation. The other half is all the men who get divorced and are then outraged to discover they have to pay child support. Or who never married in the first place, but are outraged to discover that "pay to play" applies whenever children result...


Frankly, they disgust me more than the sad whiny losers who are angry that they can't get laid. You're sad because girls won't sleep with you? Fine, find a forum where you can bitterly commiserate with other involuntary celibates. But the men who want to bail on their kids? Fuck those guys.
 

Xelebes

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I think "entitled loser" is only half of the MRA equation. The other half is all the men who get divorced and are then outraged to discover they have to pay child support. Or who never married in the first place, but are outraged to discover that "pay to play" applies whenever children result...


Frankly, they disgust me more than the sad whiny losers who are angry that they can't get laid. You're sad because girls won't sleep with you? Fine, find a forum where you can bitterly commiserate with other involuntary celibates. But the men who want to bail on their kids? Fuck those guys.

That other half is the origin of the Men's Rights Advocacy. The half we tend to talk about on the forum here are the young men being groomed by the flouncers.
 

NinjaFingers

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Re: The draft.

I actually believe it should be eliminated for everyone, because I think technology has advanced past the point where a conscript army is useful. We don't throw men at problems any more. The modern military throws tech at problems instead.

However, if it stays, women should absolutely be included.
 

Monkey

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Re: The draft.

I actually believe it should be eliminated for everyone, because I think technology has advanced past the point where a conscript army is useful. We don't throw men at problems any more. The modern military throws tech at problems instead.

However, if it stays, women should absolutely be included.

Oh, I agree. The reason women aren't included is because we have a cultural expectation that women are weaker and not suited to combat. There's widespread belief that women just "don't belong" in the trenches and aren't capable of doing the job. In other words, it's not misandry - it's misogyny.

I do feel there should be waivers for single parents and for those whose spouse is already out of the picture for whatever reason, including them being in the military.
 

MrCasperTom

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If we truly want to go further down the rabbit hole, try here. But seriously, don't go there.
 

Fruitbat

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I would not like to be drafted and if I was looking for a man I would not hold handsomeness and wealth against him. That is the way the hot dog stands. Who cares if they don't like it.
 
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Roxxsmom

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I would recommend reading the Honey Badgers' side, because not only is "the ... MRA support group that contains some women" a woefully poor description of the Honey Badgers, they also provide evidence regarding the "trolling", which was nothing more than politely asking questions during a Q&A session that no one apparently had any problem with.

Why are you standing up for people who haven't got a leg to stand on? I read the honey badger's "side" of the argument, even linked a pro HB blog entry up thread. The comment thread said it all--filled with people saying that feminism is literally the modern Nazi movement.

Absolutely disgusting (and delusional) misogyny.

I get the desire some folks have to be contrarians out of fairness, to stick up for whomever they think is being picked on in a given thread, but the MRA is a group that lost whatever credibility they had years ago.

As others said up thread, the social justice issues that are problems for men (like the draft and the unsympathetic treatment received by male sexual assault victims) are things many feminists are concerned about too. Yet even before they were taken over by petulant whiners who are twisted with bitterness over their own inability to get laid, the MRA treated feminists as adversaries (or, as Amaden pointed out, men who resent being asked to pay child support).

The Honey Badgers were started by two women who wanted to be Stay At Home moms and felt judged by feminist friends for it.
.

Oh FFS, the poor little darlings. Like some stay-at-home moms don't judge female friends who work outside the home when they have young kids? Or women who choose to remain childless aren't judged? Or fathers who choose to stay home with their kids while their wives are the breadwinners?
 
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C.bronco

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Very sad. We are all looking for the same stuff: love, acceptance, happiness, kindness, intellectual stimulation and security. The dichotomy befuddles me. No one talks about bunnies and says, Female bunnies have this tendency, but Male bunnies have This tendency! We are a part of the same race.
 
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Celia Cyanide

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Oh FFS, the poor little darlings. Like some stay-at-home moms don't judge female friends who work outside the home when they have young kids? Or women who choose to remain childless aren't judged? Or fathers who choose to stay home with their kids while their wives are the breadwinners?

Word. I don't really feel sorry for women in "traditional" roles who "feel judged by feminists." Everybody gets judged. Nobody has to pat you on the back and tell you how wonderful and brave you are for doing what you decided to do. At the end of the day, no one is taking away a woman's right to be a stay at home mom.
 

calieber

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Having read the initial article...all of the stuff the author lists for why MRAs are terrible don't have anything to do with what MRAs actually advocate,

There's no Platonic MRM that exists outside of the behaviors of its adherents. Unless you're making a no-true-scotsman argument, which thins the ranks of "real" MRAs to the point where the movement is not likely to have a great deal of impact. And which doesn't stop these horrid people from identifying themselves as MRAs regardless of how you feel about it.
 

Fruitbat

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I really can't stand that bitter ranting some people do (usually when they've failed at romance), about how horrible either women or men are. It's like nails on a chalkboard. A whole group of them together, omg. I wandered into an online group of them once without knowing what MRA was. Never again. o_O
 
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Roxxsmom

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I knew a guy in grad school who was like this: always griping about how women only liked rich, tall, good looking guys with full heads of hair who were witty and dashing and athletic and just perfect at everything and how they also preferred guys who treated them badly. Even though all his friends and acquaintances were far from perfect specimens of maleness (and most of them were pretty nice too) who still managed to be in relationships.

I got annoyed with him once and asked him if he'd ever considered approaching a woman who wasn't beautiful, poised, confident, popular and all that, because there were a ton of gals out there who were shy or worried about their own appearance who had trouble hooking up too.

His answer?

"Well, obviously, I want to have a relationship with someone I find attractive."

Sigh. He's probably in the MRA movement now. And it's sad, because he was seriously depressed. I get feeling bad when you're lonely and you think there's a huge part of life you're missing out on for reasons beyond your control. But when it crosses the line into feeling like someone owes you something and judging them negatively for doing the same thing you're doing...
 
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Fruitbat

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I knew a guy in grad school who was like this: always griping about how women only liked rich, tall, good looking guys with full heads of hair who were witty and dashing and athletic and just perfect at everything and how they also preferred guys who treated them badly. Even though all his friends and acquaintances were far from perfect specimens of maleness (and most of them were pretty nice too) who still managed to be in relationships.

I got annoyed with him once and asked him if he'd ever considered approaching a woman who wasn't beautiful, poised, confident, popular and all that, because there were a ton of gals out there who were shy or worried about their own appearance who had trouble hooking up too.

His answer?

"Well, obviously, I want to have a relationship with someone I find attractive."

Sigh. He's probably in the MRA movement now.

Ah yes, the "twos" who will only accept an "eight" or above. All that selfish, shallow stuff is just fine when it comes to what they want, lol.
 

kuwisdelu

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Hmm. I have all of the problems of your typical young MRA, and none of the hate.
 
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Fruitbat

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I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together