Why agent wouldn't respond after asking for a full

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Maze Runner

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Hahaha, it's almost like an abused child who turns into an abuser. We can, I think, start to feel a little battered. But, your example, Samsonet, is of an agent who was totally in the right. He/she/they were considering this work for representation, and the author not only jumped the gun but did it in a almost abusive way. You gotta wonder, I do anyway, what would have happened had that author sent a nice, respectful email just inquiring as to the status of the submission.
 

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Yeah! I felt kinda bad for him, honestly, but here's hoping he got better and managed to get an agent.

A writer's relationship with agents/editors is like their relationship to critiquers and eventually reviewers, I think: some of 'em can be pretty mean to the writer, but not all of them will be, and one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch.

I'd also say that a writer should avoid badmouthing them on the Internet, but then there are cases where the Internet needs to know about bad behavior, so. Use your best judgment and get advice, I guess.
 

Maze Runner

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Yeah, I wouldn't call an agent out on the internet. Really just because it's not in me to do so. Rings of a rat, in my screwed up perception, and I just couldn't do it. I do realize this is not the optimal stance, because as you say, doing so could help other writers in the future. But it's just the way I was raised. Now, if someone did something horrible like stole my work or something I'd make an exception.

The writer in question must have been pretty good already to get to the point where such a reputable agent was seriously considering his work for representation. Tough break, and I won't say I haven't been tempted to jump the gun myself, but I'm respectful and try to look at others' pov. A saving grace maybe.

Just as writers, who may have a good story told well, get thrown into the slush pile where they may not belong, just due to the sheer number of subs and the conditioning of agents to almost expect a bad sub when they have to look through quite a haystack to find a needle, I think writers can be guilty of expecting every agent to be as dismissive as others they've subbed to--I mean, I know for myself, when i get a rejection that is personal, addresses me by name, and talks about the work with some depth, it feels like a win even tho it's a rejection. It's tough. Tough to always act appropriately, on both sides, when the odds are so long against either of us finding what we're looking for.
 

Undercover

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I've run across this problem too. It's so disheartening to not get a response. Especially when the agent first showed an interest. It stings a lot. But for me, not for long. It's not worth it. I just try to fire off some new subs and move on. And when I do, I feel better in having increased my odds a little more.
 

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Well, as I said, I'd have to see the email to know how I really felt. But it's supposed to be about the work, isn't it?

It's not just about the work though. If an agent thinks she can't get along with a potential client, why sign them on and suffer their snarky attitude? I think it's perfectly within the agent's rights to reject someone based on whether she thinks they'd get along or not.

And by the way, impatience is something I was born with-it's a curse. I try my best to curb it, but it's who I am. It's really just an anxiousness to do well. I've never slept a night that I didn't toss and turn to the point that my bed looks like a warzone when I wake up. Can't help it. But, a lot of other things I've got covered that a lot of others don't.

I think this is something more subjective. Some agents might be okay with impatient clients, some might not be, and again, it's well within their rights to decide who they want to work with. I don't think it makes them childish in any way.

The bottomline for me is: As a writer, I approach agents as potential business partners, with respect and understanding. I understand that things will often get in the way and so e-mails might go unanswered for some time and deadlines may get knocked askew by unexpected events. I don't send them snarky messages and I wait a reasonable amount of time before nudging on anything, even with agents I'm signed with. I don't bug my agents every other week with a "Hellooooo, sooo are you done with my project yet? What's going on with that?"

However, I expect the same courtesy and understanding in return. Requested a full from a writer? The least they can do is send out a form reject if they're not interested. Not going to make your deadline? Send your client a heads-up. And if a writer nudges politely with an offer in hand, well, silence is just utterly rude.
 

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I've had plenty of fulls that ultimately went silent, even after nudges. I think its a disrespectful practice. I don't take it personally--clearly the manuscript didn't appeal to them--but that agent does end up getting moved to the bottom of my list for the next work I query, if I query them at all.

I know agents are busy, but I've talked to enough agents who DO make a point to respond to every full/every polite nudge (and even every query--I love this post by Janet Reid: http://jetreidliterary.blogspot.com/2011/09/no-youre-wrong-and-heres-why.html ) and don't make a big deal out of it that I'm not sure I completely buy busyness as an excuse anymore.
 
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Windcutter

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Are you sure they're not trying to figure out who they'd sell it to, or stuff like that, and it's taking this long because they're about to accept it?

That didn't occur to me yesterday, but today a comment on Janet Reid's blog mentioned an agent who was taking a while because she was loved the manuscript, was showing it to her boss, etc.

Then the author sent a snarky checkup email asking why they were taking so darn long when all the other agents got back to him in their stated time period.

The agent promptly emailed him a form rejection.
I find it interesting from another angle: the agent who loved the manuscript was seemingly unbothered by the prospect of other agents liking it faster.
 

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I think the agent figured that all the other agents had already rejected it. Or that if another agent wanted a client who'd talk like that after a two month wait, they could have him.
 

Maze Runner

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It's not just about the work though. If an agent thinks she can't get along with a potential client, why sign them on and suffer their snarky attitude? I think it's perfectly within the agent's rights to reject someone based on whether she thinks they'd get along or not.



I think this is something more subjective. Some agents might be okay with impatient clients, some might not be, and again, it's well within their rights to decide who they want to work with. I don't think it makes them childish in any way.

The bottomline for me is: As a writer, I approach agents as potential business partners, with respect and understanding. I understand that things will often get in the way and so e-mails might go unanswered for some time and deadlines may get knocked askew by unexpected events. I don't send them snarky messages and I wait a reasonable amount of time before nudging on anything, even with agents I'm signed with. I don't bug my agents every other week with a "Hellooooo, sooo are you done with my project yet? What's going on with that?"

However, I expect the same courtesy and understanding in return. Requested a full from a writer? The least they can do is send out a form reject if they're not interested. Not going to make your deadline? Send your client a heads-up. And if a writer nudges politely with an offer in hand, well, silence is just utterly rude.

Of course it's within their rights. My "childish" characterization was made before I'd seen the actual email. To me, that email went beyond snark. It was offensive, rude, and accusatory. That said, if I really loved someone's work and I'd gotten that email, I might give them a call and see if they were someone I could work with after all--we've all said the wrong things sometimes, we're all capable of allowing the pressure to get to us. Maybe this guy was having a bad day. Maybe his dog died. They didn't owe him another chance of course. But it could have been in everybody's best interest to take another look.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not impatient to the point that it's been a problem. Most often, if anything, it's worked for me. I just use that energy. I work hard and I work fast, no matter what I'm doing.

I think what a lot of people are saying on this thread is that too often that same consideration and respect isn't returned. To say that it's an entirely equitable relationship when a new writer is querying agents, the ones that can do you good, I don't think that's true. And some, only some, at least that's been my experience, take unfair advantage of that inequity. But this is true in every business I've ever seen to one extent or another. Those who have power tend to use it, and sometimes mindlessly.

I'm actually the nicest, most respectful, easiest to get along with kind of guy you'll ever meet in business--not because I'm a saint, but because it's easier--and any agent/editor would find it a pleasure to work with me as long as they even come close to treating me the same way.


I find it interesting from another angle: the agent who loved the manuscript was seemingly unbothered by the prospect of other agents liking it faster.

A glut in the market?
 

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Of course it's within their rights. My "childish" characterization was made before I'd seen the actual email.

See, to me it doesn't matter whether you or I think the e-mail was rude. What matters is that the agent thinks it's rude, and rude enough to the point where she didn't want to work with him. That's not childish at all. It's a personal opinion and you go with what you're comfortable with. What's childish about that?

To me, that email went beyond snark. It was offensive, rude, and accusatory. That said, if I really loved someone's work and I'd gotten that email, I might give them a call and see if they were someone I could work with after all--we've all said the wrong things sometimes, we're all capable of allowing the pressure to get to us. Maybe this guy was having a bad day. Maybe his dog died. They didn't owe him another chance of course. But it could have been in everybody's best interest to take another look.

I think that's a subjective decision to make. You can't really tell what would be in everybody's interest, just what would be in your best interests based on your situation. I asked Mr. Putt what he would've done if he were that agent, and he said he would've still tried to get the author if he really liked the book, because he's better at ignoring rudeness. But a friend of ours said she would've rejected the writer too, because she doesn't have the patience to deal with the rudeness. They're making a judgment call based on what would be in their respective best interests. I don't think we get to judge the decision.

I think what a lot of people are saying on this thread is that too often that same consideration and respect isn't returned. To say that it's an entirely equitable relationship when a new writer is querying agents, the ones that can do you good, I don't think that's true. And some, only some, at least that's been my experience, take unfair advantage of that inequity. But this is true in every business I've ever seen to one extent or another. Those who have power tend to use it, and sometimes mindlessly.

I would agree with that, especially with the bolded.
 

Maze Runner

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See, to me it doesn't matter whether you or I think the e-mail was rude. What matters is that the agent thinks it's rude, and rude enough to the point where she didn't want to work with him. That's not childish at all. It's a personal opinion and you go with what you're comfortable with. What's childish about that?



I think that's a subjective decision to make. You can't really tell what would be in everybody's interest, just what would be in your best interests based on your situation. I asked Mr. Putt what he would've done if he were that agent, and he said he would've still tried to get the author if he really liked the book, because he's better at ignoring rudeness. But a friend of ours said she would've rejected the writer too, because she doesn't have the patience to deal with the rudeness. They're making a judgment call based on what would be in their respective best interests. I don't think we get to judge the decision.



I would agree with that, especially with the bolded.

Again. I only said it was childish before I'd seen the email.

(Sorry, I don't know how to split quotes)

I'm not judging her decision. I'm saying what Mr. Putt said. For me, it would have been worth further investigation.
 

Maze Runner

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See, to me it doesn't matter whether you or I think the e-mail was rude. What matters is that the agent thinks it's rude, and rude enough to the point where she didn't want to work with him. That's not childish at all. It's a personal opinion and you go with what you're comfortable with. What's childish about that?

Wait, just noticed this part. So you're saying that no matter how benign of an inquiry it would have been, you would under no circumstances have any opinion on how justified it was for an agent reject that submission?
 

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Probably should've quoted the letter the first time, huh. Sorry about that.

Just in case any newer writer sees this and thinks "shoot, you can be blacklisted that easily?": you can't. As far as I can tell, nobody's actually named the guy and for all we know he might have an agent by now. Which doesn't mean to feel free to write all the abusive emails you want -- just that having a bad day might cause one agent to reject you, but the entire industry isn't going to blacklist you for it.
 

Maze Runner

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Probably should've quoted the letter the first time, huh. Sorry about that.

Just in case any newer writer sees this and thinks "shoot, you can be blacklisted that easily?": you can't. As far as I can tell, nobody's actually named the guy and for all we know he might have an agent by now. Which doesn't mean to feel free to write all the abusive emails you want -- just that having a bad day might cause one agent to reject you, but the entire industry isn't going to blacklist you for it.

No, that's okay. But it was a lot worse than I imagined.

Especially the part: What is going on with you people? Or was it waht is wrong with you people? Hahahaha I'm laughing cause it reminds me of that guy in Office Space.
 
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Putputt

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Wait, just noticed this part. So you're saying that no matter how benign of an inquiry it would have been, you would under no circumstances have any opinion on how justified it was for an agent reject that submission?

I think it's up to the individual whether or not they want to work with someone. Agents have the right to reject based on preference or level of comfort or whatever, just as writers have the right to reject or go with a different agent based on whatever.

So if an agent were to say, "I found the e-mail snarky", I don't think it matters what the e-mail said, just that the agent in question found it snarky. The agent's the one who'd have to work with the client, so her level of comfort with the e-mail is the only one that matters.
 

Maze Runner

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Really? So if the email read: "Excuse me, Mr. Jones, I'm sorry to bother you, but I was just wondering if you've made a decision on my submission yet. Thank you."

And Big Bad Agent shot back: "Why, what rudeness! What gall!"

You wouldn't have an opinion on whether that was an overreaction or not?
 

Roxxsmom

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I don't see why you're having so much trouble responding to me. It's been 3 months and no other agents had any trouble getting back to me within their allotted check-in times... What is your problem?
I wouldn't take that tone in a nudge letter, even if I really am miffed. You get more flies with honey, as they say. And in fact, we really can't know what's going on in that person's life or why they prioritize their work the way they do. As a college instructor, I know that I will immediately be in the defensive if a student contacts me and says, "I don't see why you can't [class policy x] because all my other teachers do this! What is your problem?"

Even if the student is 100% right, and I'm doing a horrible job because I'm actually having problems in my life at that time that are interfering with my teaching, I might break down in helpless sobbing over my keyboard. This has happened to a colleague or two of mine, actually.

The chances of any one agent taking on your MS is small, even if they've requested a partial or full. The chances that a mini lecture, no matter how justified it may or may not be, will make them want to take you on as a client or to reconsider their business practices re response times is even smaller. Seriously, when was the last time any of us took someone to task for something (no matter how justified it might be), and they blinked and said, "Oh, you're right. Thank you for changing me into a better person."

And agents have a very unique situation--they choose their clients. They don't have to rep anyone they don't want to rep, and they don't have to have a reason at all. And of course, we can decide who we want to query with future projects too.
 
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Putputt

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Really? So if the email read: "Excuse me, Mr. Jones, I'm sorry to bother you, but I was just wondering if you've made a decision on my submission yet. Thank you."

And Big Bad Agent shot back: "Why, what rudeness! What gall!"

You wouldn't have an opinion on whether that was an overreaction or not?

I wouldn't have an opinion on the fact that the agent decided to reject. I would have an opinion if the agent responded rudely to the writer. But if all she does is send a polite form reject, then as far as I'm concerned, the agent is perfectly within her rights to decide who she's comfortable working with. Not entirely sure why that's up for debate, tbh. The agent is the one who will have to interact with the client long-term, so surely SHE gets to decide for herself what HER boundaries are?
 

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Really? So if the email read: "Excuse me, Mr. Jones, I'm sorry to bother you, but I was just wondering if you've made a decision on my submission yet. Thank you."

And Big Bad Agent shot back: "Why, what rudeness! What gall!"

You wouldn't have an opinion on whether that was an overreaction or not?
What does it matter? When you get right down to it, queries are unsolicited advertisements. Some people politely say no to telemarketers, and some people just hang up, right? There's no contract between an agent and a writer until they sign a contract. You might argue it's professional for agents to respond to business correspondence, but you can't argue that it is owed.

As for whether an agent's reasons are "justified", if someone flirts with you, and you reject their advances, it really doesn't matter whether they're of the opinion that you rejected them for inadequate reasons -- it's your opinion that counts. A relationship has to be something both parties want to be in.

Same thing with agents; they can say no to working with you (and you to working with them) for any reason at all, and that most definitely is "justified".
 

Roxxsmom

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What does it matter? When you get right down to it, queries are unsolicited advertisements. Some people politely say no to telemarketers, and some people just hang up, right?

There's a difference, though. Agents who indicate that they're open to queries can expect to receive them. I don't know anyone who has stated on their personal website (or next to their listing in the phone directory) that they're open to telemarketing calls.

So an agent who has stated that they are open to queries "just hanging up" on, or even "never answering the phone" on an politely worded and appropriate query (or on a full request) seems a bit more rude than hanging up on a telemarketer (especially when one is on the do not call list). Now if someone is querying an agent who has indicated that they're closed to queries, or if someone is bugging an agent who has already given a polite no, being a bit curt seems warranted.

But as others have said, if one feels that an agent's way of dealing with gentle nudges is inappropriate, one probably wouldn't have wanted to work with them anyway.
 
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Mr Flibble

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Really? So if the email read: "Excuse me, Mr. Jones, I'm sorry to bother you, but I was just wondering if you've made a decision on my submission yet. Thank you."

And Big Bad Agent shot back: "Why, what rudeness! What gall!"

You wouldn't have an opinion on whether that was an overreaction or not?


I would cross them off my list of people to work with. I want a professional to work with, not a prima donna. IF that is what the writer's email said.


As for the OP .. I once got a form reject on a full...18 months after the book came out

Some agents respond, some do not. Some are tardy because they are looking after clients they already have (what I would like my agent to do) If you have gone past their stated response time, and you have nudged, consider it a no until it is a yes (it likely won't be)
 
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Mr Flibble

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:roll: That's a rejection that would not sting quite so much, I think.

One of the very few that made me smile

Two others were ones I received on the same day, for the same three chapter submission (the same book as it happens as the previously mentioned full reject)

Sorry, I don't do romance

and

Sorry, I don't do torture


Which just shows you how subjective it is.

(ETA this was for a dark fantasy that happened to have a couple in it)
 
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