Clinton Evolves on Gay Marriage

Amadan

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#4 She's not really in favor of gay marriage, nor is she opposed to it. It's an issue on which--as a politician--she is required to have a position.


Okay, that's also possible - she doesn't actually care, and would go whichever way the votes are.

I don't doubt she'd throw gay rights under a bus to get elected, but inasmuch as she has any real personal convictions, I don't see any reason to think she's not genuinely in favor of gay marriage.
 

J.S.F.

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Okay, that's also possible - she doesn't actually care, and would go whichever way the votes are.

I don't doubt she'd throw gay rights under a bus to get elected, but inasmuch as she has any real personal convictions, I don't see any reason to think she's not genuinely in favor of gay marriage.
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For what it's worth (which ain't much) I think the Hills is doing what any politician (at least a Democrat) would do in this current political climate: play to the group that can help her earn a few more points at the polls. This is nothing new. All the past gov'tal candidates did similar stuff.

What they did or didn't do after they got in is another matter. I think Hillary is genuine in her convictions, but at the same time, it looks like she's just another opportunistic pol searching for support.

How many surprised/goosed pics have you collected so far, Cassandra? :D
 

CassandraW

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How many surprised/goosed pics have you collected so far, Cassandra? :D

Oh, just the two. I'm going to sit back and let William provide them. I'm hoping he'll get me a large enough assortment in the next couple of months so I can put together a spiffy calendar in plenty of time for 2016.
 

Don

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Oh, just the two. I'm going to sit back and let William provide them. I'm hoping he'll get me a large enough assortment in the next couple of months so I can put together a spiffy calendar in plenty of time for 2016.
My entrepreneurial side recommends two, else you'll halve your market. Suggested Titles:

Heavenly Hillary (Blue trim version)
Hillary Hillarity (Red trim version)
 

CassandraW

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I like the concept, but that's a lot of work for William.
 

William Haskins

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i'm going to watch an episode or two of 'the paradise.'

there's a nobility to victorian intrigue that you people sorely lack.

call my cell if you need me.
 

CassandraW

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Well. Now you've offended me.
 

J.S.F.

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Oh, just the two. I'm going to sit back and let William provide them. I'm hoping he'll get me a large enough assortment in the next couple of months so I can put together a spiffy calendar in plenty of time for 2016.

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Shall I assume that Hillary will be clad in those pics?
 

nighttimer

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There are three possibilities here:

1. She was always in favor of gay marriage, and downplayed it for political expediency.
2. She is not really in favor of gay marriage now, but is pretending to be because she thinks it will gain her more votes than she'll lose.
3. She was lukewarm-to-negative on gay marriage before, but now she's become more in favor of it.

#1 is pretty weak sauce to criticize her for. Show me a politician who was serious presidential candidate material before about ten years ago who was willing to unreservedly support gay marriage.

#2 would be a more serious indictment, IMO, if true, but it seems the least likely. She'd probably do better politically by continuing to triangulate, and I really doubt that Hillary Clinton is secretly anti-gay marriage. Based on what, her deep religious convictions? Her expressed homophobia? Bah.

#3 just means that like a lot of people, her views really did evolve.

#4 She's not really in favor of gay marriage, nor is she opposed to it. It's an issue on which--as a politician--she is required to have a position.

I'm confused by your answer to Amadan.

Is it more offensive to you that a Democrat who now supports the concept of same-sex marriage was once opposed or non-committal or are you less offended by a Republican who remains firmly opposed to same-sex marriage?

Are you more offended by those who were blind but now can see or by those who remain willfully blind?

i'm going to watch an episode or two of 'the paradise.'

there's a nobility to victorian intrigue that you people sorely lack.

Wait...what do you mean "you people?" :Wha:
 
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robeiae

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I'm confused by your answer to Amadan.

Is it more offensive to you that a Democrat who now supports the concept of same-sex marriage was once opposed or non-committal or are you less offended by a Republican who remains firmly opposed to same-sex marriage?

I'm not offended at all. I don't know what you're confused about. Amadan allowed three possibilities, I noted there was a fourth.

Not everyone has a strong opinion on every issue under the sun. And this includes professional politicians as a matter of course.
 

nighttimer

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I'm not offended at all. I don't know what you're confused about. Amadan allowed three possibilities, I noted there was a fourth.

Thank you for the evasive non-answer answer. You could be an official spokesperson. :rolleyes:

robeiae said:
Not everyone has a strong opinion on every issue under the sun. And this includes professional politicians as a matter of course.

Yes, but we're not debating everyone's strong opinion on every issue under the sun, are we? We're debating the strong or wishy-washy or politically correct/calculated opinion by one Democratic presidential candidate and every Republican presidential candidate on the subject of same-sex marriage.

I personally could not care less whom among the participants in this thread are for or against same-sex marriage. However, both I and it seems the thread creator care a great deal if the next POTUS is on the right side of history and if they got their on their own accord or they held a finger up to see which way the political winds were blowing.

If Hillary Clinton came to her same-sex marriage position due to her canny ability to read the polls or an genuine epiphany, no one can say with 100 percent certainty. However, it is interesting how much sneering and snarking Clinton's late conversion is garnering, while the obtuse opposition of all her Republican competitors doesn't merit one mumbling word of discontent.
 

Contented Reader

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At this point, I expect that most people who aren't homophobes have 'evolved' to support equal marriage. It's a neutral position, like supporting vaccination or public education - the people AGAINST equal marriage have a noteworthy position, but the people FOR it are just... ordinary, decent human beings, like most of us.

If she wants to take a position that will position her at the front of social progress, instead of bringing up the rear, I'll be interested to hear what she has to say about trans people's employment rights.
 

robeiae

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Thank you for the evasive non-answer answer. You could be an official spokesperson. :rolleyes:
Whatever. I noted--again--that there was a fourth possibility that Amadan had not considered. I didn't say or imply anything beyond that. And neither of the scenarios you gave are offensive to me. Would you like me to lie and say that one or the other was more offensive?

I personally could not care less whom among the participants in this thread are for or against same-sex marriage. However, both I and it seems the thread creator care a great deal if the next POTUS is on the right side of history and if they got their on their own accord or they held a finger up to see which way the political winds were blowing.

If Hillary Clinton came to her same-sex marriage position due to her canny ability to read the polls or an genuine epiphany, no one can say with 100 percent certainty. However, it is interesting how much sneering and snarking Clinton's late conversion is garnering, while the obtuse opposition of all her Republican competitors doesn't merit one mumbling word of discontent.
Then take these issues up with the creator of the thread or with the people doing the sneering and the snarking.
 

Vince524

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For what it's worth (which ain't much) I think the Hills is doing what any politician (at least a Democrat) would do in this current political climate: play to the group that can help her earn a few more points at the polls. This is nothing new. All the past gov'tal candidates did similar stuff.

I think that it's probably true, just like it's probably true that even if a GOP'er was okay with gay marriage, they'd be unlikely to say so.

Which is why I think politicians suck.
 

clintl

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I think that it's probably true, just like it's probably true that even if a GOP'er was okay with gay marriage, they'd be unlikely to say so.

Which is why I think politicians suck.

Yes. It would surprise me if several of the Republican candidates either don't care about the issue or are actually OK with gay marriage, but won't say that because they think it will kill their chance for the nomination.