Question about character's dialect

hefronica · Mar 24, 2015

Greetings and salutations, section of the site I don't think I've ever really explored (eek!). So, if this is in the wrong area, perhaps someone can direct me where to go.

My lovely beta reader raised an issue and suggested I might want a second opinion. The basics: the antagonist (witch queen Dagmara) in my comedy/fantasy talks a distinct way. Some examples:

[FONT=&quot]“You are remembering the three things you are supposed to be bringing?”

[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I am thinking perhaps you are not taking this Quest seriously enough[FONT=&quot].[/FONT]”

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]So, yeah. This is th[FONT=&quot]e way she talks.[FONT=&quot] The only reaso[FONT=&quot]n for it was to [FONT=&quot]give her a distin[FONT=&quot]ct voice compa[FONT=&quot]red to everyone else, as she[FONT=&quot]'s actual[FONT=&quot]ly several ce[FONT=&quot]ntu[FONT=&quot]ries older an[FONT=&quot]d from a foreign country (neither [FONT=&quot]of which are really brought up in this first book, th[FONT=&quot]ough [FONT=&quot]are [FONT=&quot]important facts in the scope of the whol[FONT=&quot]e seri[FONT=&quot]es, though I am seriously considering calling her homeland Gerundia[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT])[/FONT]. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]My beta is worried that this style of speech is frowned upon by age[FONT=&quot]nts, and can only hurt my chances as it [/FONT][FONT=&quot]comes in the first 5 pages.[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]If I recall correctly, only one pers[FONT=&quot]on even noted it in SYW[FONT=&quot], though not in a negative way. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]Anyone have an[FONT=&quot]y insight? [FONT=&quot]Or know where I should go[FONT=&quot] for [FONT=&quot]more input?

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I have another, plot[FONT=&quot]-r[FONT=&quot]elated issue regard[FONT=&quot]ing her and her speech, but that should probably go in another forum. Now to figure out where...

[FONT=&quot]Thanks, anyone![/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

KidCassandra · Mar 24, 2015

If it's a character specific trait, I don't think it should be a problem. The only concern is if it overwhelms the first five pages and the agent believes it is an issue with your writing.

If there's another character in the selection with a different dialect, perhaps have them make a comment on it? Or if you're in this antagonist's point of view , perhaps make her self conscious about it for a minute, or notice someone's reaction to the way she speaks.

Why don't you post the first five pages or so in SYW, so people can comment specifically on whether it is distracting?

hefronica · Mar 24, 2015

KidCassandra said:
If it's a character specific trait, I don't think it should be a problem. The only concern is if it overwhelms the first five pages and the agent believes it is an issue with your writing.

If there's another character in the selection with a different dialect, perhaps have them make a comment on it? Or if you're in this antagonist's point of view , perhaps make her self conscious about it for a minute, or notice someone's reaction to the way she speaks.

Why don't you post the first five pages or so in SYW, so people can comment specifically on whether it is distracting?

Thanks! It is in SYW, here (in case anyone's interested): http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299915

Not sure if I should revive it for this, as there didn't seem to be many comments on that particular issue before. My beta's just looking out for my best interests and heard agents might not like it.

KidCassandra · Mar 24, 2015

hefronica said:
Thanks! It is in SYW, here (in case anyone's interested): http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299915

Not sure if I should revive it for this, as there didn't seem to be many comments on that particular issue before. My beta's just looking out for my best interests and heard agents might not like it.

Hmm. Well, I skimmed over it and thought it read fine--I might not have even noticed had my attention not been called to the way the witch speaks. I did notice that in her first line of dialogue she doesn't speak in this way-- "What is the matter, Questor? Did you not enjoy my goodbye kiss?"

Perhaps try and introduce her idiosyncratic way of speaking from her very first line, so that later instances are not jarring. ("What is being the matter?" might be a little too far fetched--or maybe not.) And I do suggest having Ferd make an off the cuff comment or thought about the strange way she speaks.

Otherwise, I don't think there's too much to worry about... but that's just me. We'll see if anyone else has a problem.

blacbird · Mar 24, 2015

I've heard people speak like this. Not a problem,.for me as a reader, and it gives some character to the speaker, in the best kind of way.

caw

Osulagh · Mar 24, 2015

...why are you having her speak this way?

tiddlywinks · Mar 24, 2015

Hey hefronica,

So, I remember being one of the few that might have noticed this quirk of your witch initially, but you were consistent with it, so I quickly picked up on the speech pattern being unique to her. I thought it was pretty funny once I realized that (face palm).

[side note: if you keep her speech patterns as such, I give a +10 to Gerundia

]

That being said, not sure what to tell you on dialect issues. I'm facing a similar note in my manuscript as I have five guys who drop out of a wormhole into post zombie apocalypse and they're speaking in spell-learned English...a couple folks in SYW talked over the merits on how they should talk and I've had some differing opinions from betas on how exactly to carry that off and how long to do it. One beta very nicely pointed out that it IS a point to be wary of with agents. If done well and if it reads seamlessly, it should be a non-issue. I think as long as it doesn't get annoying or makes me have to parse meanings, that is the first rule of thumb. Then, well...

I defer to others who have more experience on this matter. Have you read any agent blogs on the matter? That might be a place to start.

blacbird · Mar 24, 2015

Osulagh said:
...why are you having her speak this way?

Writers can get a lot of useful mileage by having characters speak in characteristic way. Charles Dickens was a master at illuminating his characters' attitudes and characteristics simply from their patterns of speech. In Little Dorrit, which I am just finishing, there are several really good examples of this, including a vacuous but manipulative man who obfuscates his speech with hesitations and vapid phrases, and a woman who is a total babbling airhead, whose loquacious rantings lack any connection with rational thought.

I'm having a bit of fun in my latest unpublishable novel WIP, with a character who answers every question with another question, usually employing absurd metaphors. No reader is likely ever to see it, but at least I'm having fun with it.

caw

dawinsor · Mar 24, 2015

I was once at an open mic night where someone read from a novel with a robot who spoke only in quotes from Mark Twain. It was fun for the reading, though I suppose it might have worn thin over 80K words.

Osulagh · Mar 24, 2015

blacbird said:
Writers can get a lot of useful mileage by having characters speak in characteristic way. Charles Dickens was a master at illuminating his characters' attitudes and characteristics simply from their patterns of speech. In Little Dorrit, which I am just finishing, there are several really good examples of this, including a vacuous but manipulative man who obfuscates his speech with hesitations and vapid phrases, and a woman who is a total babbling airhead, whose loquacious rantings lack any connection with rational thought.

I'm having a bit of fun in my latest unpublishable novel WIP, with a character who answers every question with another question, usually employing absurd metaphors. No reader is likely ever to see it, but at least I'm having fun with it.

caw

Yeah, I understand why it's done--I've read my fair share of Twain, Chestnut, Harris, Huston trying to present and preserve contemporary colloquialisms.

I'm asking specifically 'why?'. Because dialects aren't just thought up, they evolve.

blacbird · Mar 24, 2015

What the example word choice (I hesitate to call it 'dialect', because that isn't quite what it comes across as) conveys to me a character who is trying too hard to be over-formal, and drifting into a degree of indirection in speech. Maybe a little indecisive, unsure, lacking confidence. That says something about that character, useful for the reader to know. Now, lacking further context, i can't say if that's what is intended, or fits other aspects of the character, but in the example alone, that's what it conveys to me.

I'm not sure it's up to the writer to "explain why" such a thing is used, outside the context of the story. What does it convey to you, as reader?

caw

KidCassandra · Mar 24, 2015

Osulagh said:
I'm asking specifically 'why?'. Because dialects aren't just thought up, they evolve.

Well, per OP:

hefronica said:
So, yeah. This is the way she talks. The only reason for it was to give her a distinct voice compared to everyone else, as she's actually several centuries older and from a foreign country (neither of which are really brought up in this first book, though are important facts in the scope of the whole series, though I am seriously considering calling her homeland Gerundia.

Since this character is from a vastly different background than the other characters, I'd be more surprised/perplexed if she didn't have some distinguishing speech--in much the same way we don't expect vampire characters to speak with 21st century vernacular.

blacbird · Mar 24, 2015

KidCassandra said:
-in much the same way we don't expect vampire characters to speak with 21st century vernacular.

And I vas like now vay, dude, and she vas like, vatever.

caw

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