Realistic Goals

Brian P. White · Feb 13, 2015

What is a realistic publishing goal for, say, a zombie novel you believe will make mainstream success?

-Currently 79k (280 pages)
-multiple POVs (each in his/her own turn in third person, main protag's in first person)
-set two years after a zombie plague wipes out the world
attempting to be smarter about how it would all really work
-full of drama, suspense, action (survival and hero-vs-villain), comedy, a tear-jerk or two, and a few thrills
-oh and, best of all, it (and a sequel) is COMPLETED!

I've gone through this thing at least ten--10!!--times and have had seven people read this thing (out of God knows how many I've asked that said "oh, sure, I'll do it" and suddenly got busy, and only one or two with any useful critique). I'm so out of my element, I don't know when to trust that it's really ready. I've had my heart broken by my first novel (over 150 rejections from agents) that I have to ask if I'm really that bad (or clueless or just not ready) or if I really am so different no one knows what to do with me.

huff huff

Okay, suppose I go the "traditional" route, perhaps forking over a few hundred (when my tax refund comes in) for a professional to edit it before querying just to make sure it's good enough to be noticed. I'd share my pitch, but I think that's a different subforum and I don't know if I can post there yet.

Anyway, what is a realistic goal for how long to give an agent or publisher who manages to be interested enough to want to exclusively hold it before they accept or reject? How long should I spend waiting after all the queries go out before I get it edited again? How long should (insert whatever other things I'm not thinking of)?

Ideas?

Lonegungrrly · Feb 13, 2015

You shouldn't give agents exclusives really. they stink. As for how long for a reply it can be ANYWHERE between an hour and a year. Even if they do reply and want the full manuscript, it could be anywhere between a month and a year before a reply. And THEN they might want you to revise it, so repeat the last step again.

And that's just to get an agent

same time scale and revisions can be expected for an editor at a publishing house

But some people go from query to full to rep in a month.
I think the answer is as long as a piece of string.

Oh! And if you're going the traditional route i would honestly save your money and edit yourself - it is a skill you need in the long run and the agent and (one day hopefully) editor will go through several edits with you anyway

Brian P. White · Feb 13, 2015

Lonegungrrly said:
You shouldn't give agents exclusives really. they stink. As for how long for a reply it can be ANYWHERE between an hour and a year. Even if they do reply and want the full manuscript, it could be anywhere between a month and a year before a reply. And THEN they might want you to revise it, so repeat the last step again.

I've seen an awful lot of agents' FAQs that say they'd insist on exclusivity while they consider it. Are you saying they're not legit, not realistic, or just jerking my chain to scare me?

Lonegungrrly said:
Oh! And if you're going the traditional route i would honestly save your money and edit yourself - it is a skill you need in the long run and the agent and (one day hopefully) editor will go through several edits with you anyway

Being autistic, I'm still learning what works and what doesn't yet. Granted, with so many different opinions/viewpoints out there, you'd think the ten times I've gone through my Death Doll novel would've been enough. Well, it's enough to help me catch what I missed, rehash what I left open, and space things out, but it doesn't tell me how others will respond to it. Being my own counsel in this, therefore, becomes risky--especially when you take into account that the audience, the agents, and the publishers all have different views of what's good and what isn't. It certainly doesn't help when peer review doesn't give me much feedback either than "I loved it," "I liked it," or "It didn't really grab me;" they won't give the details I need!

Lonegungrrly · Feb 13, 2015

Some agent do ask for exclusives, usually the bigger ones (or the scam ones!) but as a general rule it is usually frowned upon because a) if you have an amazing novel, you're not even letting potential agents get a look in, and b) if they drag their feet, you lose a lot of time waiting for them. and don't assume that doesn't happen; I foolishly agreed to an exclusive back in September. It was one of the -if not THE- biggest agency in the UK so I decided to go along with it. I withdrew the exclusive after the 8 week mark. Know when they finally got back to me? Two days ago. If I'd have honoured that exclusive id have wasted the best part of 6 months on one submission! (They asked for a revision incidentally, so I'm assuming it'll be another few months before they get back to me again. If so? One year will have gone by for one agency's decision)

Exclusives aren't a scam or anything, they just help the agent; not the writer. It's why most writers are against them.

I think you should ask for more beta readers. Have you asked about around this forum? There are a lot of great writers here who won't mess you about - they will tell it like it is. I totally agree that it is really hard to have perspective on your own work! Sometime impossible. A fresh pair of eyes are great. Having said that, if you have writing talent, then agents will ask for revisions so you can get feedback that way too !

Chasing the Horizon · Feb 13, 2015

It's generally advised not to spend money on professional editing services unless your intention is to self-publish. You need to learn to edit your own work, and an agent may have a very different vision for your work and want different edits than the editor you paid did.

I don't know why you would ever edit again after queries go out, unless you've gotten an R&R from an agent. The book should be the best you can make it before you send the first query, and once the queries are going out you should be focusing on your next project, not screwing around with this one.

My only other thought is that you really should be working on your next novel. I've heard multiple agents say that zombie novels are a tough sell right now (market is over-saturated), so rejections may have little to do with your writing ability.

Phaeal · Feb 18, 2015

I don't have a problem with exclusives to legit agents, as long as you both agree on a reasonably short period of exclusivity. I think two weeks is fair; more than a month, I'd balk.

No reply within the exclusive period? I'd send a nudge, give two days for reply, then start subbing again.

My agent asked for an overnight exclusive, which I couldn't give, as others had the MS. He still read it overnight, so if the interest is really there, I think many agents will waive the exclusive request.

As for realistic publishing goals? I never have them. Which leads to lots of disappointment but also keeps me subbing.

Roxxsmom · Feb 19, 2015

Some agents ask for exclusives when they get to the point of wanting a full. I think it might be reasonable to ask them for a time frame you can expect to hear back if this is the case? And I don't think it would be unreasonable to give a gentle nudge if they've had the manuscript more than that time frame and haven't gotten back at all.

For the record, neither of the agents who requested fulls from me asked for exclusives, however. And they progressed very quickly from initial submission to full request (in one case) to partial to full (in the other) to (sigh) rejections. Less than a month in each.

I'm guessing that agents who request exclusives on fulls are ones who request very, very few fulls and maybe make you jump through subsequent partial submission hoops prior to requesting them? But I don't know. I'm only up to 15 queries total and I'm only about 6 weeks into the process, so there's obviously a selection effect in terms of only having heard back from agents who are fairly quick so far.

Realistic Goals

Brian P. White

Father, Husband, Soldier, Christian

Lonegungrrly

Brian P. White

Father, Husband, Soldier, Christian

Lonegungrrly

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido