Never good enough

I have days like this too. I'm pretty sure it's a normal feeling for all writers. It evolves, too. Years ago, I fretted about voice, and style, and techniques, and constructing scenes. Today I fret more over story.

Brutal Mustang said:

Years ago, I fretted about voice, and style, and techniques, and constructing scenes. Today I fret more over story.

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I just fret.

Celticroots, 30,000 words is terrific! Keep going.

I have that voice, too. Most people do. It may sound like your mother, or an old boss, or that teacher who humiliated you in front of the class for forgetting your book report, but it's actually your Inner Critic, one of those demons lurking in your subconscious. In its own way, it's trying to help; by talking you out of trying to do anything, pointing out the worst-case scenarios and magnifying any real or perceived inadequacies, it protects you from the possibility of failure. Once in a while, it really can save you, like if you get it into your head to do something like sell that rough draft of your lightly-redressed Sailor Moon/Hobbit slashfic you wrote in junior high on Amazon. More often than not, though, it's more a hindrance than a help; you'll learn far more by trying and failing than you will by sitting in the corner listening to your Inner Critic recite all the reasons you'll never achieve anything in life, an ironically self-fulfilling prophecy. You have to learn how to turn down the volume on the thing when it's not helping... as seems to be the case now.

'Fraid that sense of crippling self-doubt is something you're just going to have to learn to live with. It's the demon that affects all writers. Just remind yourself, no matter how bad it is, you can always rewrite. That's the beauty of the matter, unless you chisel on clay or stone tablets, no one but you will ever see or know about your shitty first drafts. All I can tell you is to keep going. You're doing pretty well right now, doing a little every day. Plus 30K is nothing to sneeze at; the bare minimum for a novel is 50K so you're more than halfway there.

In the mean time, I'll provide a link to Zen Pencils to inspire you. That webcomic is pretty cool but I thought the latest strip was the most pertinent to the subject: http://zenpencils.com/comic/calling/

celticroots said:

I try to write everyday, even if it's a sentence or paragraph. I know that alone should count for something. But there's this nagging voice inside of me that thinks no matter how much I work on a WIP it's never good enough. I haven't done enough, or should be farther along than I am.

I could be feeling this way too because I am going through a stressful time.

Heck, I am currently at 30,000 words on the WIP I am focusing on now.

I am venting really more than asking a question.

Thanks

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Absolutely understand the feeling. You are certainly not alone. And there are no rules about how far along you should be - it takes as long as it takes. Deep breath, and carry on.

mccardey said:

I just fret.

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Tee hee. There's truth to that!

I think writers and painters both go through a similar cycle.

1. A new writer/painter cares only about subject matter.
2. They expose their work to the public, and it undergoes heavy criticism for lacking technique.
3. The writer/painter obsesses over technique ... for YEARS. They no longer really care what their subject matter is, only that their technique is solid. They learn every rule in the book.
4. A novice writer/painter's work, which has been crafted using inferior technique, is chosen over the writer/painter's work by an agent/gallery for having spectacular subject matter. [Ouch!]
5. The writer/painter frets on subject matter. ETERNALLY.

At times its ok to be hard on yourself. the other extreme would be submitting the first draft to publishers.

the letter would look like,

yo mark,

i've finished this novel. it's got vampire n all. i think its awesome.

you would really like it, man. havent we all fretted over vampires as kids. told you, you'd like it.

its not about twilight but more like a mix between twilight n x men(the cartoon series. i think the movie was crap.)

so if you want i'll email u the three chapters. i would love to email u the work now, but u know i'm also sending the same letter to three other publishers. n as we all know the inflation is so high.

i would auction my work to the publisher with highest offer.

looking forward to hear from you, dude.

regards,

your potential best friend, jauz

***

Judging us, helps us learn. A balance needs to be maintained. That balance is different for everyone.

Bleh, I have that voice big time, and it's turned up to 11 right now, since I'm querying and my first three rejections came back boom, boom, boom.

The humiliating thing is I'm (trying) to read a fantasy novel by a fairly popular author right now (repped by one of the agencies that gave me a quick "dear author"), and I think the writing is raw and klunky. Chock full of filter words (realized, knew, noticed, through, felt and so on when they aren't frigging necessary), awkward sentences and paragraphs (one where the pov character's name was used in each and every sentence).

The story's all right, and it's based on a really cool concept, but there are some raw spots there too, including one pov character who really doesn't seem to serve much purpose and has a rather dull story arc, and a really intriguing crisis with another main character that had me going for a bit (in spite of the awkward prose), but was completely resolved off camera.

I'm pretty sure that I (and many of my critting partners who are also experiencing the frustration shopping our work) write better than this published author. Which means that 1. I'm completely incapable of judging whether or not anyone (let alone me) is a decent writer. 2. All that work I do on craft, storytelling, characterization, and polishing my prose means absolutely zilch. It really is just about being in the right place at the right time with a concept whose time has come.

Sorry to coopt your brooding thread, but I'm certainly feeling broody and unsure of myself right now.

mccardey said:

I just fret.

Celticroots, 30,000 words is terrific! Keep going.

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Yep. Me too.

celticroots said:

I could be feeling this way too because I am going through a stressful time.

Heck, I am currently at 30,000 words on the WIP I am focusing on now.

I am venting really more than asking a question.

Thanks

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This is normal for a lot of writers. Try not to let it add to your stress.

jaus tail said:

At times its ok to be hard on yourself. the other extreme would be submitting the first draft to publishers.

the letter would look like,

yo mark,

i've finished this novel. it's got vampire n all. i think its awesome.

you would really like it, man. havent we all fretted over vampires as kids. told you, you'd like it.

its not about twilight but more like a mix between twilight n x men(the cartoon series. i think the movie was crap.)

so if you want i'll email u the three chapters. i would love to email u the work now, but u know i'm also sending the same letter to three other publishers. n as we all know the inflation is so high.

i would auction my work to the publisher with highest offer.

looking forward to hear from you, dude.

regards,

your potential best friend, jauz

***

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If I were an agent,* I think I would totally love that letter. Voice, ya know.

*Probably a good thing I'm not.

Oh, yes, I know that feeling. I am constantly beating myself up for something that I didn't do, or didn't do as well as I thought I should.

I don't know if this would work for you, but a couple of years ago I came across a concept that helped me. I was reading a lot at the time about how we think, how we achieve excellence at work, how we cope with stress. I was having a rough time at work ... you don't want to know.

I had several light bulb moments at that time. One in particular was this - "all you can do is your best". It's a simple phrase, but it hides a lot of meaning.

Fr'instance when we send our kids off to school we encourage them to work hard and succeed in their exams. We want them to come top of the class, to win every race, to be on the sports teams. But psychologists tell us that this isn't the best message to give children. It might motivate some, but some kids might think that we are setting the bar too high. And if they can't get to the top of the class, there is no point in trying to be second or third. They have failed.

Instead the best thing to say to our kids is, apparently, "do your best."

It's the same with work. We shouldn't set ourselves impossible goals if that just sets us up to fail. Instead we should aim to do our best. Then we can come home at the end of the day and feel satisfied. There might still be a mountain of things to do in the tray. But if we have done our best we can relax. Give ourselves permission to be less than perfect.

And then a funny thing happens. While we aren't looking for it, all quiet and unannounced, excellence comes along. Because if you keep on doing your best, day after day, fantastic things can happen. Without the need for guilt or recrimination.

I blogged about it some time back. Might help...

https://willonce.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/the-meaning-of-life/

Nothing is ever good enough, but if it's the best I can do, then it's the best I can do.

Once! said:

Fr'instance when we send our kids off to school we encourage them to work hard and succeed in their exams. We want them to come top of the class, to win every race, to be on the sports teams. But psychologists tell us that this isn't the best message to give children. It might motivate some, but some kids might think that we are setting the bar too high. And if they can't get to the top of the class, there is no point in trying to be second or third. They have failed.

Instead the best thing to say to our kids is, apparently, "do your best."
https://willonce.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/the-meaning-of-life/

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It is a beautiful idea. In theory. And maybe it works for some kids. What I see in practice is kids (my own and friends') who present you with the first draft written in 5 minutes and tell you that it is "their best". And I know they will get praised for it in school, because that is "their best" (they tried). The problem here is, like you said, "it might motivate some". "Do your best" doesn't work for my kids as a motivator, it never worked for me, and I can tell that it doesn't work for many (some?) other people. Maybe you have to be mature enough to realize where the line between trying to reach an unattainable goal and doing your best is. Personally, I do my best only when I am actively trying to attain perfection. If someone tries to tell me that I did my best when I failed, I'll seriously consider it an insult. But then I also feel patronized when my martial arts instructor tells me "good job" after a kick that I know had all the grace of a flying cow. I would rather hear what I did wrong.

What I write is also never good enough, but while I feel that way, I know I can improve and that is what keeps things interesting. If I ever think I am good enough at something, it either gets forgotten (if it is, say, a hobby), or just becomes a boring routine.

There is a difference between thinking (or claiming) that something is "good enough" and doing your best. Any good school or teacher should be praising children for what they have achieved, and then encouraging them to do better next time.

This idea about encouraging kids to try hard isn't my idea, I'm afraid. I wish I had thought of it first! This actually has some science behind it...

http://www.parentingscience.com/praise-and-intelligence.html

Oh, I completely agree with the idea that the kids should be encouraged to try hard. It is that "do your best" and "work hard" are heard slightly differently, at least in my experience. I am trying to do it with my own kids, but then they go to school and hear that they are great, just because they showed a tiny improvement. So instead of learning to work hard , they learn to show minimal improvement achieved with minimal effort, because it is enough to get that praise. I am a bit touchy about it at the moment, because my son had a celebratory party at school. Why? He proudly told me that he got 77%, C+ on a test. Improvement from an F a week ago. If he spent 30 minutes studying for the test, he would have gotten an A. But since the first test was written extremely badly (30-40% average for the class), and they all shown some improvement, the teacher gave him a party. I checked the grades - most got 50%, so Fs, but better than 10-40% last week. Maybe for some kids it was a good thing. But does it really teaches them to work hard!? And we are talking about pretty good private school here, where most kids really deserve their A and B grades. As I said, hot topic for me at the moment

I often feel like that too, but am slooooowly coming to accept that it's impossible to be perfect. I do try my best every day, and so what I end up with may not be perfect, but it's the best I could do on that day under those circumstances.

Looking at it that way might help you

Once! said:

Oh,

Fr'instance when we send our kids off to school we encourage them to work hard and succeed in their exams. We want them to come top of the class, to win every race, to be on the sports teams. But psychologists tell us that this isn't the best message to give children. It might motivate some, but some kids might think that we are setting the bar too high. And if they can't get to the top of the class, there is no point in trying to be second or third. They have failed.

Instead the best thing to say to our kids is, apparently, "do your best."



https://willonce.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/the-meaning-of-life/

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"Do your best" is a meaningless phrase when standing alone. Psychologists say this, that, and the other, and no matter what one says, another will disagree.

"Do you best" without working your hardest is impossible. Every kid is different, and you have to have a solid idea of what a particular kid's best is before you can praise him for anything.

A kid who doesn't do his homework, who doesn't study as long and as dedicated as he should, who doesn't actively participate in the subject, is not doing his best.

I never told one of my kids he had to be at the very top of the class, but I knew what each was capable of, I knew when each was working hard, and when he was slacking off.

Unless you make it very clear that "Do your best" also means "work your hardest", you're doing your kids no favors.

Oh, James! (My new phrase de jour).

As you say, "do your best" without working your hardest is impossible. That's why the phrase is useful as a principle, but it is never the only thing you say. But then I didn't say that, did I?

Everyone has that voice within them, saying negative things. I find it harder to have better thoughts, but I also remember that I don't have to let it control how much or how little I do. So I keep working. And I try to make a game of it... it's the lets see how many ways I can prove my negative thoughts wrong. Sometimes we're neck in neck but I think I have the upper hand today.

30K is good! Keep going

Olga said:

Oh, I completely agree with the idea that the kids should be encouraged to try hard. It is that "do your best" and "work hard" are heard slightly differently, at least in my experience.

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This is an interesting point, as there are a lot of people who make it to college with the expectation that they'll get through their courses by virtue of how hard they "tried."

Leaving aside the arguments of whether or not most of them are really studying as hard (let alone as effectively) as they think they are, there's often a moment of incomprehension when I tell someone who's begging for a passing (or higher) grade at the end of the semester, "But you haven't demonstrated to me that you've mastered the concepts and skills required for a passing grade in this class."

There's a difference between passing a class and becoming a published novelist with a respectable sales record, though.

Classes come with syllabi that list the requirements and desired learning outcomes in advance, and instructors provide our students with periodic feedback, so they know how they're doing.

Getting published means processing bewildering variety of rules and advice (maybe even "what we're looking for" lists that some agents or fiction markets have on their sites) that aren't remotely set in stone, and it requires that one knows when and how to break these rules, and it requires one to be in the right place at the right time with the right story. We most often don't receive any feedback at all from those who reject us (just polite form letters), and there's not any set criteria for when a given agent or editor decides to give more constructive feedback on a story they turned down.

And something that passes muster with one may be summarily rejected by another.

As a teacher, I can't ask bio students to write a paper on (say) some kind of animal, provide very specific guidelines for what I want, then fail a paper (that met all my criteria) a student hands in on raccoons, because "I just don't like raccoons," or "I've been getting too many papers on raccoons lately."

This is the befuddling/bewildering part about trying to get things published. But that's real life, unfortunately. There are a bunch of constantly shifting requirements for success, and we're never given a syllabus.

Olga said:

Personally, I do my best only when I am actively trying to attain perfection. If someone tries to tell me that I did my best when I failed, I'll seriously consider it an insult.

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Personally, I only do my best when someone tells me... that's good enough, you've done your best. Coz I'm a contrary bugger and just love to prove people wrong, so then I have to go and better it.

If someone tells me I can't do any better, my immediate response is always 'Well, I'll feckin show you, sonny Jim...'

And this is why my betas are all now experts in reverse psychology

Roxxsmom said:

The humiliating thing is I'm (trying) to read a fantasy novel by a fairly popular author right now (repped by one of the agencies that gave me a quick "dear author"), and I think the writing is raw and klunky. Chock full of filter words (realized, knew, noticed, through, felt and so on when they aren't frigging necessary), awkward sentences and paragraphs (one where the pov character's name was used in each and every sentence).

The story's all right, and it's based on a really cool concept, but there are some raw spots there too, including one pov character who really doesn't seem to serve much purpose and has a rather dull story arc, and a really intriguing crisis with another main character that had me going for a bit (in spite of the awkward prose), but was completely resolved off camera.

I'm pretty sure that I (and many of my critting partners who are also experiencing the frustration shopping our work) write better than this published author. Which means that 1. I'm completely incapable of judging whether or not anyone (let alone me) is a decent writer. 2. All that work I do on craft, storytelling, characterization, and polishing my prose means absolutely zilch. It really is just about being in the right place at the right time with a concept whose time has come.

Sorry to coopt your brooding thread, but I'm certainly feeling broody and unsure of myself right now.

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Haven't gotten to the submission level yet, but on reading published works that make my inner editor cringe... oh, yeah. Been there, done that... and, yes, having read some (IMHO) clunker "winners", I do firmly believe that timing/luck/intangible forces beyond your control plays a factor in one's success in this game. Not the only factor by any means, but still one to be considered. (I would also reconsider subbing to those agents and/or that publisher; if that is what they consider The Good Stuff, apparently your tastes vary significantly, and you'll be better off with someone who prefers your kind of writing than with someone who would rather you be like That Author.)