Twitter Panel: Writing Groups and Courses. Worth it?

As this post is not promoting a specific release, I'm moving the thread to the Round Table discussion forum. Do remember to place your event on the AW calendar, though.

I hate such panels. Only those who have gone through such courses have a clue whether or not they'll be helped, and if a writer does this and says it didn't help, he's right. Likewise, if a writer does this and says it helped immensely, he's also right.

Writing courses, MFAs, workshops, conferences, and all else are one hundred percent individual, and the only way you can know how much it will help you is to try it.

Any degree really helps on a small percentage of those who get it. Those who aren't helped will probably flunk out on success, whatever they do. Those who are helped will be helped tremendously because they're the cream of the crop, the kind of people who are smart enough, and hard-working enough, to be the best at whatever the try.

Unless you know the individual in question better than you know yourself, there is no possible way to say whether such things will or won't help, will or won't make them much better writers.

James, I understand your concerns and think you make some valid points. It's impossible to give anyone definitive advice about whether something will work for them: however, I am convinced that it is possible to explain the pros and cons of such courses, and to discuss who might benefit from them and who might not.

What people then do with that information is, of course, entirely up to them.

I'm facilitating the panel, for my sins. We've done a few and they're an informal place to ask questions and get answers, but also to have a general conversation around the subject. We've taken panellists from a wide range - online writing groups, forum groups, face to face groups, developmental editing and mentoring - and I think their advice will be wide ranging and not suggesting a one-size fits all approach. It's also there to explore things like etiquette within groups and the sort of problems that can emerge.

Mostly, though, the panels are a lively hour of discussion and good fun, and we'd love lots of participants to keep it nice and busy.

Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. I feel sure it can benefit those looking to participate in some kind of group, because it will bring up aspects of group participation that people may not have considered or realized before, and it also might turn out to be a good networking event where people can learn of possibilities they might not otherwise find out about.

Good luck with it! I hope it's a great success.

This sounds cool.

If only I could figure out how to use Twitter.

kuwisdelu said:

This sounds cool.

If only I could figure out how to use Twitter.

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You don't need to be on Twitter to follow the panel, if it helps. Just go to the twitter website and search for #sffchrons and the activity should be gathered under that.

Attending various creative writing classes was most helpful for me. The feedback, as well as required attendance and homework, helped pound in the basics.

I'm not sure how valuable a single panel discussion would be other than to generally steer prospective writers down better paths, but even a modicum of enlightenment can prove invaluable - especially if it avoids a pitfall or two. I doubt you could effectively teach from such a venue, however. All just opinion, of course.

Kerry

My issue with these panels is that more often than not, they tend to skew against writing classes and academia in general. (Because someone once had the crappiest creative writing teacher on the planet and therefore, all classes are BAD.)

I'm with James on this one. It is extremely individualized. it is great to get information, but my only suggestion would be to make sure it's even and to avoid letting one speaker take control and "speak for" every single burgeoning writer out there. Some people won't thrive in a creative writing course. Some won't need academia. Some will flourish.

I do like the idea of relaying to writers that it's often not just about writing well, but being open to exploring different avenues and pathways that lead to uncovering your own, successfull process--whatever that looks like.

I agree. There will be no element of teaching, it's not the forum for that. And there won't be a prescribed one size fits all approach. The panellists all have different experiences of the writing route. For instance, one was the mother of young children at the time and found face-to-face meetings impossible but wanted feedback from peers and set up a successful virtual group instead. It's really a chance to discuss experiences, for those interested in finding out more, as opposed to giving carte blanche 'how to learn to write' advice.

Hopefully, given that one of the panellists has an MA in creative writing and another is a professional editor and writer (Teresa Edgerton), I think it's unlikely the value of writing classes and academia wouldn't be recognised.

CrastersBabies said:

My issue with these panels is that more often than not, they tend to skew against writing classes and academia in general. (Because someone once had the crappiest creative writing teacher on the planet and therefore, all classes are BAD.)

I'm with James on this one. It is extremely individualized. it is great to get information, but my only suggestion would be to make sure it's even and to avoid letting one speaker take control and "speak for" every single burgeoning writer out there. Some people won't thrive in a creative writing course. Some won't need academia. Some will flourish.

I do like the idea of relaying to writers that it's often not just about writing well, but being open to exploring different avenues and pathways that lead to uncovering your own, successfull process--whatever that looks like.

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I agree. It seems like something like this could easily turn into a discussion on why you don't need any sort of formal education or training. That seems to be the popular view of writers who don't take classes. Unless the panelists have taken enough classes, workshops and so on to actually have an opinion that is not based on a few isolated experiences, I don't really see how this is going to help people. And with writing classes and workshops a lot depends on who is teaching and who is also taking the course. I have taken many classes and workshops, and it has helped tremendously. But with this sort of thing what you put in often determines what you get out of it.

gettingby said:

I agree. It seems like something like this could easily turn into a discussion on why you don't need any sort of formal education or training. That seems to be the popular view of writers who don't take classes. Unless the panelists have taken enough classes, workshops and so on to actually have an opinion that is not based on a few isolated experiences, I don't really see how this is going to help people. And with writing classes and workshops a lot depends on who is teaching and who is also taking the course. I have taken many classes and workshops, and it has helped tremendously. But with this sort of thing what you put in often determines what you get out of it.

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That's one of the reasons we use Twitter as the basis for the conversation and why the panel is limited to an hour - so they don't degenerate but remain a question and answer session. There is room for extended debates - but this isn't the purpose of the panel which is to answer, hopefully helpfully, direct questions about their experience of writing groups.

The writers on the panels are experienced critique partners, betas, editors and mentors. One has taken an MA in creative writing with all the classes that entails. There is no agenda within this, in terms of promoting one or other course of development - it is simply a discussion of experiences of writing groups, both positive and negative.

Sorry, double post! Anyway, I thought I'd put in a wee bit about the panels. They're relatively new and they're a spin-off from one of the big science fiction and fantasy websites (sffchronicles.com for anyone worried about the credentials.)

we've had two to date, an introductory one and one looking at humour in science fiction and fantasy and I plan to run about one a month (time permitting, I'm a busy little writer these days and I have a job and kids and what not). Because the site has a lot of aspiring genre writers some are around writing, both in general like this one and more specific to the genre field (we're looking at world building in sff, for instance, soon), some will be around wider genre topics (so we have one planned to discuss space opera and I hope to pull in some readers and reviewers as well as writers to it.)

The writing panellists range from aspiring writers, through to published writers, editors, small-publishers, magazine publishers, reviewers, established bloggers etc, and sff fans. We have a (very new) facebook page where I intend to give information on upcoming panels and can be followed on twitter under the #sffchrons tag.

Here's the fb page (like I say, new and not much on it yet):

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chronversations/869659266411719

Any questions/concerns, feel free to pm me. Mods - i hope the clarification was okay to post; if not, please delete. Jo

It sounds like this could be a lot of fun. And informative & balanced too, if the panel really is as eclectic as it sounds.

Though I have to say that for me AW serves the same purpose & is equally fun in its own way. I've learned a lot since I joined it a little over two years ago.

I don't think it sounds balanced at all. You keep mentioning that there is a panelist with an MA. One person with an advanced writing degree is supposed to make this a balanced discussion? And maybe that person hated school. Even if they loved it, it is one person with experience in higher academia. If you want to talk about if education is worth it, why not have more people who might feel it is worth it? An MA is not the same as an MFA or PhD. Many MFA and all creative writing PhD programs are funded with a stipend. So before anyone tells people that education isn't worth it, they should be aware that those who get into these sort of programs often go for free and are even paid to go.

The panel is intended to be an interesting, fun discussion about experiences of writing groups, an extension of the sort of topic that has been raised on the forum in the past and which new writers have asked for advice on. The panellists come from a range of backgrounds, including academia.

If it was intended to be a discussion of the full range of developmental opportunities for writers that would be what the panel heading would be. In this case, the focus is on writing groups as a possible way forward (or not, of course.) for that reason, the panellists were chosen to represent a wide experience of writing groups. If it had been a wider focus then different panellists may have been chosen (or may not). The panels last one hour - if the subject matter becomes too wide it is difficult to manage in that hour.

But, why not come along and see what you think? If you hate it, fine - it won't be for anyone. But nothing is.

I'm not going to keep coming back to the thread and reiterating what the panel is about; I think that's not helpful. Suffice to say, everyone's welcome, all questions are welcome and I hope some of the contributors find it useful, and fun.

Mod note: Folks, let's ease this way back, please. The panel has been announced as an offering to those interested. There is no pressure on anyone to attend or to care about it at all. But given that it is a rather generous offer of time and energy on the part of the OP and those putting this on, how about we have the graciousness to accept it as such and stop trying to knock something out of the water that hasn't even happened yet?

Thanks.

Sorry if I came across too harsh. I'm sure many people might find your twitter discussion useful and helpful. It is always a good idea to discuss the many resources and opportunities out there for writers. I wish you the best of luck and hope it goes well.

Well, this IS Springs. And Springs is pretty much infallible. And nice. So, I'm sure it will be awesome. Good luck with it, all!

CrastersBabies said:

Well, this IS Springs. And Springs is pretty much infallible. And nice. So, I'm sure it will be awesome. Good luck with it, all!

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Steady on, now. Springs is mostly terrified she'll let the panellists and contributors down...

Thanks for the input, everyone. It's reminded me these things go further than we expect and the need to bring balance to such events.

Coming right up on Sunday! Springs, Lady Silver, and any who participate, I hope you'll report back how it goes.

You'll do fine!

I wonder if saying "break a leg" is appropriate for this type of venue.

That old superstition among theater people about not wishing each other good luck for a performance has really stuck with me, apparently!

Anyway, consider this my roundabout way of offering ___.