Gun rights gain support among the majority of Americans now

Roxxsmom

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I looked at the articles linked and the pew research center site, but didn't see any the graphs or a clear representation of the exact wording of the question asked. Wording will influence outcome. I'm not pro gun at all, but I wouldn't support a law that took away all rights to gun ownership. I'm more interested in laws that make it easier to track the owners of guns, prevent spur of the moment gun purchases, and that normalize safe gun ownership (like trigger locks, stronger liability if one's gun is involved in a fatal accident or a crime), and that restrict access to assault weapons.

It's been my understanding that Americans have always tended to favor gun rights over restrictions, though there will be a temporary shift in the polls after a major mass shooting with high mortality. But relatively few Americans back unrestricted access to all guns in all situations. The area of play has always been in the middle--over which restrictions are appropriate when, where, and for whom. You can paint almost anyone as being pro or anti gun ownership rights, based on where you draw that line in the middle of the continuously varying distribution of attitudes.

I do wonder whether the increasing frequency of lone shooter incidents is making Americans less likely to react with the kind of shock that leads to a long-term change in their attitudes about laws restricting automatic and semiautomatic weapons, however. When something happens over and over, it tends to become part of people's background normal, and people stop talking about ways to prevent the same from happening again and instead focus on things they think will make them safer on a personal level ("I don't trust the government to fix this, but if I carry my own gun with me everywhere, I'll be able to take down the next mass shooter who comes into a restaurant and opens fire, just like those national guards people did in that IHOP!")

Sad, but true.
 
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ShaunHorton

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Page 8, here.

ASK ALL:
Q.55 Do you think that gun ownership in this country does more to [INSERT OPTION; RANDOMIZE] or
does more to [NEXT OPTION]?

Dec 3-7 Dec 17-19
2014 2012
57 Protect people from becoming victims of crime 48
38 Put people’s safety at risk 37
5 Don’t know/Refused (VOL.) 16
 

cmhbob

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I'm more interested in laws that make it easier to track the owners of guns, prevent spur of the moment gun purchases, and that normalize safe gun ownership (like trigger locks, stronger liability if one's gun is involved in a fatal accident or a crime), and that restrict access to assault weapons.

If I steal a car and mow down a bunch of kids at a playground, should the owner be charged for any part of my criminal act?

if I carry my own gun with me everywhere, I'll be able to take down the next mass shooter who comes into a restaurant and opens fire, just like those national guards people did in that IHOP!")
As a veteran, I've never seen National Guard members carrying their weapons at a civilian off-post business. In fact, Regular Army troops rarely carry weapons on post, and I'm pretty sure the regs still prohibit them from carrying them off-post. See Ft Hood.

If you're going to use dead people to bolster your case, you'd be better off using a case where the dead people were armed when they were murdered, like Lakewood, Washington.

Damn. Barely 5 hours
 

ShaunHorton

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If I steal a car and mow down a bunch of kids at a playground, should the owner be charged for any part of my criminal act?

As a veteran, I've never seen National Guard members carrying their weapons at a civilian off-post business. In fact, Regular Army troops rarely carry weapons on post, and I'm pretty sure the regs still prohibit them from carrying them off-post. See Ft Hood.

If you're going to use dead people to bolster your case, you'd be better off using a case where the dead people were armed when they were murdered, like Lakewood, Washington.

Damn. Barely 5 hours

Sorry, but guns and cars aren't comparable. Try again.
 

Zoombie

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The best way to reduce deaths from guns is to either...

A) Remove all guns ever.

Or

B) Create a society with less crime, less poverty, better education, more freedom, and a just police force that protects everyone equally. Also, design guns so that they never go off by accident. And make them intelligent, so you hit what you are aiming at, not some random by stander.

So, if conservative people want me to stop agitating for guns to be banned or better controlled, then they know what I want!
 

backslashbaby

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Why couldn't you say they were equally likely as a response? Or have the "don't know" examined with another question or two (and not grouped in with 'refused')?

It's a really complex subject with a lot of problems in boiling it down into a poll like this. Others have mentioned the other obvious ambiguity above, and I agree with that, too.

I'm the worst at answering polls like this. I really should just try to guess what they are really looking for, but that has always been my worst skill in English tests, lol. I can't decide between two options without writing an essay answer because of over-analysis :D

But this one seems like it would hit about everyone that way, right? I think I'd say that gun control is more important right now just because I don't think gun rights are being threatened at all currently. My natural inclination is to not favor one over the other in a vacuum, though, so it feels like not answering the question.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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cmhbob

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Sue, sure. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. I'm talking criminally charged. That's why I said "charged."

ETA: And I'm talking about stealing an object and using it criminally. The object doesn't matter. Should the owner of that object, who is now the victim of a crime (theft) be criminally charged for "allowing" me to steal something?
 
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Shadow_Ferret

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Except the object does matter. If it is something that is considered a deadly weapon and they just left it in a dresser instead of having it locked in a specially designed safe. Yes. Then I'd say they can be charged since it was their responsibility to keep it out of others' hands.
 

cmhbob

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Left in a dresser...in a locked house? Is that good enough?

How much "protection" is enough? If the bad guy got to it, then obviously there wasn't enough protection, or the safe wasn't good enough, or the locks weren't strong enough. So where's the line?
 

Lord of Chaos

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Except the object does matter. If it is something that is considered a deadly weapon and they just left it in a dresser instead of having it locked in a specially designed safe. Yes. Then I'd say they can be charged since it was their responsibility to keep it out of others' hands.

One problem with this thinking is no matter how much money you spend on a safe, it can still be opened. All you do by increasing the amount you spend is increase the time it takes to break in. If a criminal has an hour or two in your home and knows that, even a great safe might not prove effective enough to keep from being broken into.
 

kuwisdelu

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A sample size of 1500 people out of 316 million (2013) is statistically irrelevant

1500 is a decent sample size. However, you're going to have to look into the question and the means the question was asked more than the sample size.

Yes, if it's a representative sample, and I only know enough about statistics to be dangerous.

As AW's statistician-in-residence, yes, the sample size isn't the issue so much as whether it's representative.

Anyway, yeah, I'm one of those weird people with mixed feelings about gun rights and gun control. I have pretty much zero issue with people owning long guns, but I think conceal carry should be illegal everywhere.
 

rugcat

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One problem with this thinking is no matter how much money you spend on a safe, it can still be opened. All you do by increasing the amount you spend is increase the time it takes to break in. If a criminal has an hour or two in your home and knows that, even a great safe might not prove effective enough to keep from being broken into.
Your average burglar is a teenage kid.

Breaking into a safe takes a highly skilled individual. Those who have that ability are not breaking into random houses and stealing guns; they are doing professional jobs.

The one safecracking job I ever saw was in a rich house with an extensive and expensive collection of jewelry in their safe. The owners were out of town for the weekend and the criminals knew exactly when they would be gone where the safe was and what was in it.

It was an impressive piece of work.
 

ShaunHorton

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Your average burglar is a teenage kid.

Breaking into a safe takes a highly skilled individual. Those who have that ability are not breaking into random houses and stealing guns; they are doing professional jobs.

The one safecracking job I ever saw was in a rich house with an extensive and expensive collection of jewelry in their safe. The owners were out of town for the weekend and the criminals knew exactly when they would be gone where the safe was and what was in it.

It was an impressive piece of work.

You're missing the point.

Someone could still break into the safe! So there's no point in anyone having one.

Obviously the best thing to do is sit there with gun in hand, and shoot the first unexpected movement you see.

Preventing yourself from being a victim of violent crime IS more important than personal or familial safety. Right? That's what the survey says?

:sarcasm
 
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Larry M

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Non dairy butter substitute is gross. Honest, organic real butter is the only way to go.

When I was a teenager, there was a butter flavored powdered popcorn seasoning that was outstanding. Much better tasting than butter. Then someone decided it caused cancer and it disappeared from the shelves. It was incredibly tasty though.

… In fact, Regular Army troops rarely carry weapons on post, and I'm pretty sure the regs still prohibit them from carrying them off-post. See Ft Hood…

Just curious: would those people not qualify for concealed carry permits? Or do their Army regs supersede that?
 

cmhbob

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Just curious: would those people not qualify for concealed carry permits? Or do their Army regs supersede that?

Concealed carry regs vary by state. Some states allow your military training to exempt you from CCW training, and will issue the permit with documentation of your training.

When NG members are on duty for training, yes, I think there are general orders that prohibit the carrying of privately owned weapons. That was the case when i was on active duty. I had a privately owned handgun when I was in the Army, stationed in Germany. I was a lower enlisted soldier at the time, and lived in the barracks. I could not store the weapon in my room; it had to be stored in the unit arms room, and I could only get it out with written permission from my battery commander.
 

Amadan

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The best way to reduce deaths from guns is to either...

A) Remove all guns ever.

Or

B) Create a society with less crime, less poverty, better education, more freedom, and a just police force that protects everyone equally. Also, design guns so that they never go off by accident. And make them intelligent, so you hit what you are aiming at, not some random by stander.

So, if conservative people want me to stop agitating for guns to be banned or better controlled, then they know what I want!


Since even in an ideal world, (B) is pretty much impossible until we all also have flying jetpacks and self-aware AI, I guess I'll have to go with (C) - keep voting your initiatives down, even though I'd rather not always have to be voting "conservative."
 

Amadan

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Just curious: would those people not qualify for concealed carry permits? Or do their Army regs supersede that?


Federal regulations trump state laws, and military posts are federal property. So a CC permit does not allow you to carry on post.
 

Zoombie

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Since even in an ideal world, (B) is pretty much impossible until we all also have flying jetpacks and self-aware AI, I guess I'll have to go with (C) - keep voting your initiatives down, even though I'd rather not always have to be voting "conservative."

I'd be satisfied if people who supported lax gun control were also in favor of social security nets and better education and less income inequality and all that other stuff. (Because, I mean, all I really care about are the people dying, not whether they're shot or stabbed. Though, guns do make it a lot easier...)
 

Lord of Chaos

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Your average burglar is a teenage kid.

Breaking into a safe takes a highly skilled individual. Those who have that ability are not breaking into random houses and stealing guns; they are doing professional jobs.

The one safecracking job I ever saw was in a rich house with an extensive and expensive collection of jewelry in their safe. The owners were out of town for the weekend and the criminals knew exactly when they would be gone where the safe was and what was in it.

It was an impressive piece of work.

If an individual is interested in doing it quietly yes. My father has guns and they do remained locked in a large gun safe but we also live in a fairly remote area so making a lot of noise isn't really a issue if someone's breaking in.

He also has a shop with accetelyne torches, angle grinders, and other heavy machinery that can make short work of lock if the criminal really wanted into the safe. Living in the country, the odds of a hard line criminal breaking in for that purpose is slim, but it does exist.

My point wasn't to suggest a gun safe shouldn't be used, only that having one wasn't a guarantee that someone couldn't get what was inside. Unlike jewlery and other items typically stored in safes, people don't generally steal guns to pawn them off (due to the registration on them that's run every time they legally change hands) so some damage to the weapon isn't as big of a concern to the criminal.

I simply took issue that a individual should be held accountable for something illegal done with something stolen from them.