Oops! Time to ban feminism

I say let the little gamergate girl haters have it. It's a twisted term that is most often used as and accusation and a reason for dismissal. Once the label is slapped onto something, whatever else follows has the volume dialed down. Dismissal. Let them keep it. Call it Equalism instead. How douche-y would you have to be to preach anti-equality?

Yes, that's exactly what feminism is, or was, but the word has mutated into something else. Let them have it. Vote for it yourself. Find a reboot...then laugh.

If I had a dime for every time feminism has been declared dead, or a man-hating cult, or a philosophy that oppresses women, or a zillion other things it's not, I'd be retired ten times over.

It's a distraction technique, best given the consideration it deserves.

I have never suffered any wrongs in the workplace because of gender; it has always seemed to me to be a meritocracy, regardless of where I worked. The only grief I can count has been with double standards in my personal life.

Feminism, probably because of my time of birth, never seemed relevant, especially in the workplace. It was irrelevant until I had the joy of encountering medieval ideas in a relationship, which became apparent long after college. I never had issues in the workplace with gender inequality.


My boss is awesome, btw. She is inspiring and I am lucky.

I am 28. I will pm ypu the year of my birth.

I think I've shared my 'girls don't get that far in high school math' story before, so I'll spare you all the repeat.

That said, Katy Steinmetz, whoever she is, is a dingbat.

trolls gonna troll.

WhitePawn said:

I say let the little gamergate girl haters have it. It's a twisted term that is most often used as and accusation and a reason for dismissal. Once the label is slapped onto something, whatever else follows has the volume dialed down. Dismissal. Let them keep it. Call it Equalism instead. How douche-y would you have to be to preach anti-equality?

Yes, that's exactly what feminism is, or was, but the word has mutated into something else. Let them have it. Vote for it yourself. Find a reboot...then laugh.

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Since when do we stop using a word, just because some people don't understand what it means?

since you started acted like a flimberdooble.

mccardey said:

says Neha Prakash with a barely discernible whimper of WTF??

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The Article Headline said:

4Chan is trying to

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Okay, so much for that. I've read enough.

mccardey said:

Words do change though.

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Yes indeed. There was a time when one had to be convicted of a capital crime before being electrocuted. Later, one who was only accidentally killed by electricity was said to be electrocuted. Shockingly, one can now just get hurt by an electric shock and claim to be electrocuted.

And I wonder if equalism might be a reflection of a less divisive present?

(I prefer feminism, as a word. But at my age, my word preferences seem to carry less currency in the wider world. )

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I remember when this sort of thing was discussed before in P&CE. I'm not saying another word.

i'm not sure how binding this poll is, so the word will probably persevere, but it is interesting to note that the choice of feminism, in the context of the poll states, in part:

You have nothing against feminism itself...

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benbradley said:

Yes indeed. There was a time when one had to be convicted of a capital crime before being electrocuted. Later, one who was only accidentally killed by electricity was said to be electrocuted. Shockingly, one can now just get hurt by an electric shock and claim to be electrocuted.

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It has, as you might say, struck the third rail.

*glasses*

*Who tune*

C.bronco said:

I have never suffered any wrongs in the workplace because of gender; it has always seemed to me to be a meritocracy, regardless of where I worked. The only grief I can count has been with double standards in my personal life.

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This is wonderful for you. I too have been pretty lucky (and I'm older than 28 by quite a bit). But there are a huge number for women for whom this is assuredly not true. And some things seem to have slid backwards since I was young. Abortion and contraception, for instance, seem harder to get and have higher out of pocket expenses for women.

And it shouldn't be about whether or not one has a great boss or a non-sexist family of origin, or about whether they live in a state or nation that does a fairly good job of protecting your legal rights (at least if you are white, heterosexual/cisgender, educated, and from a fairly high socioeconomic class).

And of course, feminism isn't just about workplace issues either.

It's about socioeconomic equality across society. It's about the right of women to be free of assault and harassment on the streets and in their homes, and about the rights of women to control their own bodies and make their own healthcare decisions. It's about the women who are victims of sex crimes to be treated respectfully and listened to, rather than being told they're lying, misinterpreting the situation, or have brought it on themselves somehow.

It's about the right of women to be judged on their character and abilities instead of primarily being judged on how young, thin or attractive they are. It's about having the same right as a man has to be a sexual being without censure. It's about your sexual healthcare not being regarded as "optional" or "controversial" by insurers and the government.

It's about the right of girl babies to be as wanted and cherished as their male counterparts, and for people not to be a lot, or even just a little bit disappointed (oh, a girl? Ugh. They're so hard to raise, and she won't carry on the family name, and you have to work so much harder to protect a daughter from predators and controlling their sexuality than a son) when their child is a girl.

And on a smaller level, it's about not having to deal with all the stereotypes about being catty, bitchy, moody, overly emotional, high maintenance and all that. It's also about not being discouraged from entering STEM professions, and about professions that do have more women not automatically being less valued or lower paying than male-dominated professions that require similar levels of education or experience. And it's about it not mattering whether a woman is a girly girl, a tomboy, or something in between.

It's also about men not being mocked or ridiculed when they display traits, have interests, or or have experiences that are traditionally associated with femininity.

And it's also about caring about the myriad of issues that face women who aren't wealthy, white, heterosexual, cisgender, or western.

That's a pretty extensive summary, Roxxsmom. And I agree with it wholeheartedly.

aaand the inevitable apology:

Time apologizes for the execution of this poll; the word ‘feminist’ should not have been included in a list of words to ban. While we meant to invite debate about some ways the word was used this year, that nuance was lost, and we regret that its inclusion has become a distraction from the important debate over equality and justice.

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http://www.ibtimes.com/time-magazine-apologizes-including-feminist-2015-word-banishment-poll-1724372

And they didn't think it wouldn't turn into a debate about feminism?

Considering the source of the nomination to begin with, the results were entirely predictable, but nonetheless depressing.

I personally like the term. I'm a feminist because I believe that women can do anything they choose to do, whether that is be a stay at home mom or CEO, but it does leave out that the opposite is true, too. A man should be able to do what he chooses to. He should have the same right to be a stay at home dad as a CEO.

And I agree wholeheartedly with Roxxsmom! However, I have experienced discrimination because of my gender and I'm only 29. I'm a veterinarian which was traditionally a male dominated profession. But, almost 10 years ago women became the majority.

A few weeks before I found out I was pregnant with my daughter, I interviewed with a male veterinarian about 10 years older than me. During the interview he told me that "women don't make good veterinarians because they feel the need to procreate." Needless to say, I didn't go work for him. I was appalled that he had even said that to me. He's allowed to have 3 kids and his wife is a stay at home mother for them. But, obviously, female veterinarians are not allowed to make similar choices.

That was nearly three years ago and the words are burned into my brain. The need for feminists is not dead.

I think the reason why we're not ready to replace feminism with something more symmetrical yet (e.g. equalism) is because the problem of inequality is not symmetrical yet. Men still control most of the wealth, hold most of the high-status positions in society, and they still dominate in government. Not saying it's because men are bad, but there is just such a weight of history there. Plus our inability (in the US and many other countries) to figure out a way to deal with the inherent reproductive inequality re division of labor in a way that allows both sexes to reproduce (or not) if they so choose without it destroying their chances to be other things besides parents if they so choose.

Sexism in institutions disproportionately affects women, and violence against women by men is a bigger thing than the reverse at this time in history (or violence against women by other women, though men also are pretty damned violent to other men).

And the ways that men are disadvantaged, for instance, being tormented for having interests or mannerisms that are deemed feminine, or being ignored as victims of rape or violent crime by women, is often because of misogyny. It's shameful for men to do anything that is seen as feminine, because feminine is inferior.

I'd love to get to the point where I could simply say, I'm a humanist, and have it mean the same thing as feminist does now (because everyone would know in their hearts of hearts than women and men are equally human), but I don't think we're there yet.

This comment is why we still need feminism (yes, I had to go read a couple).

Typical feminist - when it is exposed that the movement is a pile of failure and shit, they go on the offensive, trying to silence and cover their mess. Rather than accept the criticism that they are probably going against the interests of society - women included - they will just cover it up. Just making it clear - last time I checked, "feminist" was winning by a landslide - that word alone had 45% of the votes.

However, the people who voted - they know how they feel. They know they hate the word, they dislike the effects of feminism, they dislike feminists. You aren't going to change their minds through bullying and silencing. This only reinforces their displeasure with feminism.

After shaming a person for wearing a shirt feminists disapprove of, they go on another bullshit offensive to silence dissent. This movement is nothing short of pathetic, idiotic and disgusting.

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A lot of people still hate feminism, and (I suspect) women in general. But this is all a great example of why I don't read Time. Idiots like the above person and all the people who are voting to "ban" the word) read it.

mccardey said:

Words do change though. And I wonder if equalism might be a reflection of a less divisive present?

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I think the problem is that "equalism" is very broad. Yes, everyone should be equal. But when some groups face discrimination, it makes sense for movements to pop up to address issue facing those particular groups. It's necessary, because that type of compartmentalization is what gets stuff done. I'm all for intersectionality, but when it comes down to it, a single movement can't prioritize issues facing everyone.

And the thing is, a lot of the people who are anti-feminist and say they prefer "equalism" don't really get that women can face a disadvantage because of their gender.

I do think that the name feminism might be slowly becoming less relevant as feminists increasingly explore the way gender roles and discrimination affect people as a whole, not always women specifically. But I think calling feminism "equalism" to appease people who are put off by feminism would mostly ignore the main issue, which is that a lot of people are threatened or put off by the idea of a movement that criticizes misogyny and addresses issues faced by women.