"Outing" pseudonymous writers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Viridian

local good boy
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
557
"Not consciously acting as an agent provocateur for the purpose of discrediting social justice" does not equal "being in favor of the social justice agenda," and neither of them equals "being sincere and truthful in all of one's statements about social justice."
That's a good point.
Excuse me, but are you suggesting that her foam-at-the-mouth hatred is applied to a constant percentage of the works she reads, so that if she reads more books by female and/or POC writers, it's only natural for her to excoriate that fraction of them as racist, sexist bigots?
I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're asking here. Constant percentage? No. What I'm saying is that everyone has books they hate, and those books are a subset of books they have read. If a person reads only books with blue covers, then most of the books they hate are going to be blue. It doesn't indicate a bias against blue books.

That being said, I had another look at the graphs Laura so kindly put together. I see now that the disparity between RH's targets is a lot larger than I remember, and I don't think that can be accounted for by reading preferences. Sorry. My mistake.
People of this mindset rage most at what they consider pretenders, rather than those who don't follow their way at all (whatever the way is). RH spent her time attacking writers who care about social justice, because those are the ones most hurt by being called racist, homophobic or sexist. And underneath, this is all about the self-righteous pleasure of hurting people, and thinking that they deserve it.
^That's the truth right there.

@ULTRAGOTHA: thanks for the link. Sunita always has such insightful posts.
 
Last edited:

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
Sunita (VacuousMinx) has a post on the volume of white vs POC voices in the fallout.


Although Laura Mixon's graphs are interesting, I don't think they really support the claim that RH/BS was specifically and preferentially targeting other minorities. I think she was preferentially targeting the competition in her little niche of SJ-oriented SFF.

I do find myself dismayed at what seems to be an emerging attitude that if she'd stuck to wishing acid attacks on white dudes, she'd have remained beyond serious criticism.
 

ULTRAGOTHA

Merovingian Superhero
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,467
Reaction score
313
That bothers me, too. I hope that reasoning is ... addressed? Examined? Thought about? In the aftermath.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
An interesting observation. Other people have made similar observations, but, at least before this explosion, any such suggestion that her English was unusually proficient for a non-native speaker was generally dismissed as racist.
Well, they would. The overall flowchart of RH & Co.'s arguments is unusually simple, has some huge causal gimmes and force multipliers built into it, and arrives at a very small number of possible conclusions.

If anyone accuses me of racism for my remarks about RH/Benjanun's command of language, my response will be that I am not judging it against some imaginary privileged hierarchy of good vs. bad English. I don't do that anyway, and it's not the point. Instead, let us, for the purposes of this conversation, count all the possible varieties of English as equally valid. That question, then, is which of all those possible varieties of English does she speak?

Or: we are all fish swimming in the ocean of English. There is no privileged social hierarchy implied by discussing which kind of fish a writer is.
I am still not sure I'm completely convinced, but I long ago noticed that she had an extraordinary mastery of idiom and rhetorical style in a language that is notoriously difficult to learn. She also mocked people who only spoke English with the claim that learning another language is easy, and claimed English is easy to learn - something I know as a former ESL teacher is assuredly not true.
An expert! No one knows English like ESL teachers. Forgive me, but I'm going to talk for a moment about things you already know.

The only way it's easy to learn English is if you grow up speaking it.

English is a relatively easy language for back-and-forth face-to-face informal conversation. The conversation itself provides a huge amount of contextual information about the speakers' statements, and the speakers essentially collaborate on the task of establishing what the important words are. (Note: this is true of all mercantile languages.)

The difficulty of getting things right ramps up steeply when you move from spoken to written English, which is long on potential meanings, and short on formal grammatical and syntactical markers. I'm inclined to agree with those who say the basic unit of meaning in written English is the paragraph, because that's the point at which there's enough context to establish what the component words and sentences mean.

Business English and most technical writing uses a stripped-down version of the language that uses simplified mechanics and a curtailed vocabulary, and leans heavily on formulaic phrases and sentences. Verb constructions tend to add modifiers as needed to a short list of basic verbs, rather than using more specific verbs that might be unfamiliar to the recipient.

Literary English is miles more complicated. It has a high percentage of original sentences, and a huge and intricately connotative vocabulary. It draws on a vastly enlarged library of templates, tropes, idioms, and modes, and often assumes the reader is tracking a longer span of context (at least a couple of paragraphs in both directions) that may be modifying the meaning of a word or sentence. It hoards old bits of grammar and diction which are no longer compliant with the current OS, but which it is nevertheless unwilling to throw away; and it enthusiastically adds new forms, like the recent because reasons, or the semi-recent Emphasizing. every. damned. word.

Participating in a fast-moving online discourse is working without a net. Being able to not only participate, but write quickly and eloquently while getting all the finicky grammatical bits right, means the writer is comfortable speaking literary English conversationally, and gets the finicky bits right without thinking about it. To state the obvious, the majority of native English speakers can't do that.

I take a lot of cabs in NYC. I see firsthand how hard adults have to work to learn the language. Claiming that English is easy to learn is both obviously untrue, and an enormous and offensive assertion of privilege.
I saw at least one poster in one of the many threads that have exploded over this issue claim that he was able to find her birth certificate, which identified her as U.S. born. I don't really place much credence in that (this was one of her alleged stalkers who claimed it), since I doubt anyone actually knows her real name (nor do I think even she deserves to be doxxed like that).
I don't believe him. By all indications, RH is the topmost layer of a Matryoshka sockpuppet. Before I'd believe that someone's found basic ID documents for her, he'd first have to convincingly explain how he figured out her real identity, and then go on from there.

I don't recognize an absolute right to anonymity or pseudonymity in cases where changeable identities are being used for fraud and/or abuse -- and my standards for what constitutes abuse kick in pretty early. That said, there aren't many circumstances in which I can imagine revealing someone's real street address, annual income, medical profile, or children's elementary school; and whistleblowers are definitely a protected species.

RH's behavior has made her identity a matter of urgent interest to the community. If she wanted people to leave her identity alone, she shouldn't have used it as a weapon.
But I suspect the real truth behind RH/BS is still out there, and probably will never be fully known.
I think she'll be found out sooner or later. No matter how clever she's been, the analytical technology we use to examine texts is going to keep getting more powerful and sophisticated, and RH hasn't managed to delete everything she's known to have written. The current thrash just guarantees that there will always be people willing to save archives of her text.

Another reason I think she'll be caught is her appetite for new victims. I doubt she can stay quiet and lie low. Someone who studied workplace bullies found that when their habitual targets became unavailable, the bullies could only tolerate a gap of about seven to ten days before they picked a new victim.
At this point, people have drawn up battle lines and now the two camps are going after partisans on either side. There's a certain lack of nuance all around, which I find ironic but I'm not sure what it all really says.
It just means that awareness of the thrash has spread to less well informed circles. It's a normal part of the process.

Another sideshow: the right-leaning neanderthals have finally noticed the thrash, and are showing up to say dumb things about how it just goes to show [collect underpants] [something-or-other] about SJWs.

So far, the most popular response is that it's the SJWs who started organizing and working to take RH down, and when have the neanderthals ever made a comparable effort to clean up their own trash, hmmmmm?

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the real attention-getting venues started reporting this -- IO9, TPM, Boing Boing, GRRM, sites in that range -- and if they do, it has a chance of getting picked up by the mainstream media, which would focus ever so many eyes on RH & Co. The fun's not over yet.
 
Last edited:

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
And just to make my contribution to OP question of outing pseudonyms, whatever your reason for doing so, there's always going to be the chance that someone is going to find out who you are, and you should be prepared to deal with the consequences of whatever you said and did under that persona becoming linked to you.

All the best security specialists agree with you.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
Once upon a time, the Winterfox LJ identity linked to some short fiction she had published on her profile page (long since deleted and purged). I really really really wish I could recall either the name they were published under or the title of the piece I read.

But if, indeed Winterfox is RH, she was writing (and publishing) before BS published.
Do you remember which fandom it was?

I've been assuming RH was already published because her prominent professional targets (that generational clade I mentioned) started getting published some years ago.

Hmmm, left out a step. The first time I saw Laura Mixon's list of confirmed targets, my immediate reaction was "You can sure tell which generation of writers RH identifies with."

I've been assuming that RH hates within that generation because she identifies with it, and thus is outraged by the success of members of it whose writing she thinks is less worthy than her own.

I started assuming there was something unreal about Benjanun when I heard that the identity had become active a few years before she made her first sale, but that her behavior hadn't perceptibly changed when she started selling. That's a big change in a writer's life. It ought to create some ripples in the pond. No ripples suggested to me that this was an identity, not a writer, and more tentatively suggested that the writer behind it had already experienced first publication.
 

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
I don't think RH/BS was professionally published before "Benjanun Sriduangkaew" was. I've been familiar with this persona since her Winterfox days, and read some of her earlier stuff - on game forums, on Fictionpress.com, etc. (She once had a series of essays there critiquing bad fiction - as usual for her, a mixture of insightful and funny points, and downright cruelty - which are still linked to but I can't find the originals.) And I do think she was a teenager or young adult when she started, 10 or so years ago. She used to write primarily Forgotten Realms fan fiction. (I think she might have written Tolkien fanfic too? But I can't remember seeing that for sure.)

I'm skeptical of the person who claimed knowledge of her true identity as well - I think a dedicated stalker/hater of that caliber would have publicly doxxed her by now if he could. But I would not be at all surprised to learn that the person behind the persona is U.S.-born and/or raised. The narrative she's put forward for years is that she's a Thai citizen of Chinese ethnicity, that her family owns one or more hotels, and that she was educated in the UK. All that may or may not be true, but it is very hard for me to believe she really learned English as a second language when I know people who have been using English professionally longer than she's been alive who cannot write as proficiently as her, particularly while adopting the very latest memes, slang, and grammatical innovations, as you pointed out.
 

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,029
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
Another sideshow: the right-leaning neanderthals have finally noticed the thrash, and are showing up to say dumb things about how it just goes to show [collect underpants] [something-or-other] about SJWs.

I saw a post linked to on FB today about how there's now no need to worry about whether you're getting female characters right or wrong (or include them at all) because hey, as an *ism, feminism is just womens getting upset and they get upset whatever you do, right? And this whole RH thing just proves it, amiright? Ofc all the dudes (and it was only dudes) commenting were all "I know, right?" and basically patting themselves on the back for finding a way to carry on being douches.

My face is all desked out.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
As an author, it becomes a catch-22. On the one hand, social media and internets are a very fun, engaging, inspiring place full of amazing things and people. On the other hand, there are enormous opportunities to be victimized and fall victim to abusive relationships.
On balance, the internet's a good thing for writers. Have you ever looked at AW's Bewares Board? We couldn't do that before the internet existed. Being online also puts writers into contact with other human beings who understand what they're going through.

The other thing to bear in mind is that we had these thrashes before the internet existed. They played out in small-circulation magazines, letter columns, and private correspondence, and took an agonizing amount of time to happen and be over with. I once went through an entire year of feeling sick to my stomach every time I came home from work and had to face my mailbox.

The first time I got caught in an online flamewar, I thought "Wow, that was just like a fan feud -- except it was over in a week!" Huge improvement.
To me, especially, as a low-lister, it makes almost zero business sense to broach the risk involved of the internet age for the possible rewards. These rewards don't seem to be doing much for my career, anyway.
If you're not a natural-born self-promoter, it's a lousy way to promote yourself no matter what's going on. Just use the internet for what it's actually good for, like getting to know people, and picking up professional gossip.
Picking the wrong side in whatever drama is happening inevitably risks closing professional and promotional doors.
Don't worry about it. Not all editors and publishers even pay attention. Those who do pay attention generally understand that these things happen. As long as you're not a complete raving jerk and a menace to navigation, and you don't alienate your entire professional community, it shouldn't be a problem.

Being on the side of the angels, and consequently making friends with other writers who are standing up for truth and justice, is a real plus. These fights can tear friendships and communities apart, but they can also weld them together. That's a lasting benefit.

If you're going to get involved in online thrashes: read all the documents, read all the comments too, get multiple inputs, do as your conscience bids you, and remember that if you guess wrong, (1.) it's almost never too late to announce that you've seen the light and are changing sides; and (2.) a sincere public apology to specific individuals you've hurt is always good.
And, it drains away the time and energy and mindspace that is necessary for making new work.
That it does! If RH had put all that time and energy into working on her own fiction, by now she might be a successful writer.
I hope wiser heads than me can figure out a good solution. It seems like we just skip from one outrage to another, on-line, with barely a moment to spare between them.
Some years more, some years less. It's like sunspots.

Issues like racism and sexual harassment have been simmering under the surface for a long time. However troublesome it is to deal with them when they finally boil over, it's good that we're starting to address them.
 
Last edited:

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
That's a good point.

I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're asking here. Constant percentage? No. What I'm saying is that everyone has books they hate, and those books are a subset of books they have read. If a person reads only books with blue covers, then most of the books they hate are going to be blue. It doesn't indicate a bias against blue books.

That being said, I had another look at the graphs Laura so kindly put together. I see now that the disparity between RH's targets is a lot larger than I remember, and I don't think that can be accounted for by reading preferences. Sorry. My mistake.
That's okay. Statistics are tricky, and I was being snarkier than I should, so my apologies in return.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
Although Laura Mixon's graphs are interesting, I don't think they really support the claim that RH/BS was specifically and preferentially targeting other minorities. I think she was preferentially targeting the competition in her little niche of SJ-oriented SFF.
That interpretation is certainly not excluded by the known facts, by which I mean I'm glad someone other than me said it.
I do find myself dismayed at what seems to be an emerging attitude that if she'd stuck to wishing acid attacks on white dudes, she'd have remained beyond serious criticism.
I don't like that either. What Mixon's analysis of attacks on women and POCs did was establish that RH's excuses for her attacks don't stand up to scrutiny. That's useful and necessary, but it should be a supporting point, not the main point. RH's attacks shouldn't happen to anyone. To allow them to happen to any group is to validate them in principle, and I will not do it.
 

MacAllister

'Twas but a dream of thee
Staff member
Boss Mare
Administrator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
22,010
Reaction score
10,707
Location
Out on a limb
Website
macallisterstone.com
My own stake in this is that I loathe a community-spoiler with a white hot rage -- and WF/RH/BS has deliberately and maliciously torpedoed one community after another, on Twitter and LJ and god knows where else, like it was some sort of personal first-person-shooter game to her.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
There's also the problem of the mute/block/ignore buttons expected to take the place of real, human moderation. It's a real problem, especially on places like Twitter.
Arrrgh. People who don't understand moderation really don't understand moderation, and there's always someone telling them how much money they can save if they trade in their human moderators for "flag this comment" buttons.
One of the things we regularly do here on AW is take a look at who has been put on ignore, by whom, by how many, and for how long. That tells us some stuff, as mods -- it tells us, primarily, "this person is a problem in the community, and the mods need to take a sharp and close look, like RIGHT NOW" because if fifteen people put you on ignore this week? You're being a problem to the conversation.

Now, that doesn't mean you just get auto-banned, do not pass go, do not collect your $200. But it may mean you get a looooong PM or thirteen, trying to help right your course.
That's characteristic of the most intelligently-run forums. They don't just look at which button got pushed; they look at why it happened, and keep track of trends.

The best set of backstage moderation tools I've ever seen was Metafilter's. They were gorgeous -- obviously designed and refined by people who understand moderation. I get weak in the knees just thinking about them. They definitely tracked who'd been getting into trouble over the last few days, and why. You could write a book just explaining all the accumulated wisdom embedded in their proprietary forum software.

If Metafilter marketed those moderation tools as add-on software for forum managers, I'd be on them so fast my outline would blur.
BUT...if there's no one looking at those posts? Then you can get away with saying and doing almost anything to the people who haven't gotten savvy about your abuse, yet. Either they quietly go away and never come back, or they put you on ignore too -- so you just move on to greener, newer newbs.
They haven't made a computer yet that can sort out the subjunctive, much less recognize deliberate cruelty. That needs a human mind.

I like forums where constantly skirting the edge of what's allowable, over an extended period, will cumulatively earn you a ban. Someone who's always pushing the edge without going over is in control of their affect, and is choosing to be there: bad dog, no biscuit.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
676
My own stake in this is that I loathe a community-spoiler with a white hot rage -- and WF/RH/BS has deliberately and maliciously torpedoed one community after another, on Twitter and LJ and god knows where else, like it was some sort of personal first-person-shooter game to her.
Building communities takes a huge investment of intelligence, caring, engagement, and daily presence. I hate seeing sociopaths use them as all-you-can-eat diners.
 

J.S.F.

Red fish, blue fish...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
5,365
Reaction score
793
Location
Osaka
Building communities takes a huge investment of intelligence, caring, engagement, and daily presence. I hate seeing sociopaths use them as all-you-can-eat diners.

--

Problem is, as you've already pointed out, people like this existed long before the Internet was around. It just took longer for the message to spread.

I confess that before viewing this thread, I had never heard of this person or the pseudonyms he/she allegedly uses. I knew there were trolls--unfortunately they exist on every kind of forum--but this person has taken personal attacks to a whole new level. And it's not to promote their own agenda, unless their agenda is to tear everyone down they hate to their own level...which this person seems very content to be doing.

While I haven't been flamed yet (not to that extent, anyway) I'll know enough not to respond. People like that, I feel, exist to make life miserable for others. They must be pathetic individuals in real life, too.
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,356
Reaction score
4,667
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
I like forums where constantly skirting the edge of what's allowable, over an extended period, will cumulatively earn you a ban. Someone who's always pushing the edge without going over is in control of their affect, and is choosing to be there: bad dog, no biscuit.

Oh lord, that reminded me of the IIDB - don't know if anyone remembers that board, but I was a longstanding member there. The rule was that you could discuss anything as long as you did it civilly.

So there was this tiny group of relatively new posters who wanted to discuss child molestation and whether this could be justified. And one of the ways they debated this controversial (to them) topic was to write hypothetical descriptions of it, like stories, with the children being enthusiastic and consensual participants. Only to illustrate their perspective and support their assertions, of course.

I read one of those and will always wish I hadn't. It got to the point where I avoided the debates forum like the plague. These posters were always calm and polite and just wanted to discuss an issue, so they weren't actively breaking the rule, but it was very, very obvious what they were doing.

I don't know how they were eventually kicked out, but their presence tainted the board for me. The same thing happened on the Godawful Fan Fiction Forums with an influx of pro-incest posters, but that board was much more of a Wild West and the members ran them out on a rail.
 
Last edited:

LeslieB

Geek Unique
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
507
Reaction score
95
Location
Florida - A sunny place for shady people
Is it sad that nothing about this situation surprises me? I've already seen it more than once.

I've seen a pattern in a lot of communities, not just writing ones. You have a group of generally nice people who are in agreement with the basic SJ tenets - treating everyone with respect and with sensitivity to their particular issues. Then someone says something truly racist/sexist/whatever. People correct them, and they usually retire chastised.

Then the SJ 'warriors' show up. The person who made the remark is hounded from community to community. In the original community, they buddy up to the moderator, telling them how wonderful they are for trying to create a safe space. In the meantime, most of the previous members start feeling less and less safe as their every word is picked apart for transgressions against the greater good. As the language gets nastier and more abusive, anyone who objects is told that racists, etc. don't deserve to be treated better, and they aren't defending racists, are they?

At that point, one of two things happens. One, most of the old members drift away, leaving either a dead community or one peopled by no one but self-congratulating warriors. Or two, one or more of the lead warriors is exposed as a known troll. At that point, the moderator and their cronies wail about being betrayed, and how could they have known? It is often useless to ask how they could believe that anyone that vicious and cruel could actual care about other people's feelings.

It's the same thing here. RH treated people horribly, yet lots of people were willing to believe that she was doing it in the interest of helping make the world a better place. Personally, I say horse hockey. If you will pardon a momentary drift into the philosophical, I am a big believer in "You shall know them by their fruits."
 

ULTRAGOTHA

Merovingian Superhero
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,467
Reaction score
313
I was quite displeased that Romano named, and still has enough searchable info on, the person who RH drove to a suicide attempt. And shame on her editor, too.

OMG! I am agreeing with Will S!
 

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
I was quite displeased that Romano named, and still has enough searchable info on, the person who RH drove to a suicide attempt. And shame on her editor, too.

See, that's one of the things I think has been blown up into something other than how it's being represented now.

I was actually reading the discussion on the blog when that happened (it was on another author's blog, and that author has also, unfairly IMO, been blamed for the suicide attempt), and while Winterfox was being her usual jerkish self, it was pretty mild by her standards (something along the lines of "white women lol!").

I think it goes too far to say that because she said something rude to someone who later attempted suicide, she is therefore responsible for driving that person to attempt suicide. Yet this is being repeated all over now as if she personally hounded this person and told her to kill herself.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,130
Reaction score
10,901
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I was quite displeased that Romano named, and still has enough searchable info on, the person who RH drove to a suicide attempt. And shame on her editor, too.

OMG! I am agreeing with Will S!

I saw that this had been pulled. Didn't bother looking to see if it was still searchable, but yes, that raised my eyebrows. Shouldn't have been included, out of respect for the writer in question's privacy, obviously.

Seemed like some odd back and forth in that article. I mainly linked it for the links themselves. I pored over some of the reviews, and I can see why some people say that some of them have a point.

However, I have to say that thinking that the voice and pov of a writer's characters=the voice and pov of the writer and is an example of how said writer conducts him or herself in life, well that's a pretty serious mistake to make as a reviewer. My approach would be to say that perhaps those voices and povs were not sufficiently examined by said writer, or that said writer did not sufficiently consider how the treatment of women, LGBT, and PoC would impact readers who related to them as much or instead of the white, straight, male characters.

But then, I've read the blogs and posts of some of these writers in other contexts, so I don't imagine them as people who go on raping and murdering frenzies in real life, even if I don't agree with everything they think or say about their own work.

I think it's also important to note that when a writer (whether male, female or otherwise) wrote something that was sexist or racist etc., it does not necessarily mean that they are a sexist piece of whatever who should be [insert torture].

I think too much of this discussion has been about the reviews themselves and not the underlying harassment, trolling, and so on. But insofar as this person is (or wants readers to believe she is) someone who commits errors I've been warned not to do in writing workshops, crit groups and so on (that is, they project nefarious motives writer), it's not surprising that she ended up harassing and stalking people.

When you believe that a writer is his or her characters, then yipes.

I think it goes too far to say that because she said something rude to someone who later attempted suicide, she is therefore responsible for driving that person to attempt suicide. Yet this is being repeated all over now as if she personally hounded this person and told her to kill herself.

I thought there had been some hounding and stalking by her and/or her followers that took place out of the public eye as well.
 
Last edited:

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
I thought there had been some hounding and stalking by her and/or her followers that took place out of the public eye as well.


Of the writer who attempted suicide? I've seen no evidence of that. Is someone claiming that they actually sent her harassing messages elsewhere?
 

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,029
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
It was more than just the blog. More as Roxx says.

ETA: there are things that are not for me to say, you know? But the lady in question has posted publicly both that no one seemed to specifically set out to get her to commit suicide, but that events were a contributory factor. Just because you don't go in with the specific thought "oh let's get her to kill herself" doesn't mean that you being a harassing dick won't push someone in that direction
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.