#GamerGate

kuwisdelu said:

That doesn't mean we shouldn't take death threats seriously.

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Of course. Ban users who make them, with police follow-up on illegal actions and credible threats.

But to say that one is "risking their life" because they've received the same kind of crap any major figure on the internet receives just makes a mockery of everyone who doesn't let random idiots on the internet influence their lives.

Zoombie said:

...except that Jack Thompson was just one guy, and no one who is "against" GamerGates wants to make games illegal or ban them.

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Not quite. Many on the anti-#GamerGate side have praised things like Target Australia pulling Grand Theft Auto V from their shelves, or Hatred being removed from Steam Greenlight (many of whom then condemned Steam when the game was reinstated on Greenlight).

All I want is the freedom to critically analyze games - or, more accurately, for my female friends to critically analyze games - without a hundred people telling them they're going to rape them to death.

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There's certainly jerks in the gaming community, and no one denies that. But to claim that harrassment only happens to women or that the same kind of harrassment is more worse when it happens to women than when it happens to men is simply disingenuous.

Most gamers want to see actual harrassers dealt with. Yelling at large groups of people for what someone who isn't them did doesn't help anything.

lilyWhite said:

But to say that one is "risking their life" because they've received the same kind of crap any major figure on the internet receives just makes a mockery of everyone who doesn't let random idiots on the internet influence their lives.

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I don't think the level of threats and hate these women have received are "the same kind of crap any major figure on the internet receives". A certain amount is expected, sure, but it's gone much further than that.

For that matter, why should any 'major figure on the internet' have to deal with that crap either?

Death threats aren't ok and should be taken seriously. Period.

lilyWhite said:

But to say that one is "risking their life" because they've received the same kind of crap any major figure on the internet receives just makes a mockery of everyone who doesn't let random idiots on the internet influence their lives.

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Dig deeper. It's more than "random idiots" on the internet. It's threats made to the hotel where some of these women are speaking and so forth.

Also, because you and women you know/friends you know/female family members don't let random idiots on the internet impact your life, everyone needs to follow that example?

There's certainly jerks in the gaming community, and no one denies that. But to claim that harrassment only happens to women or that the same kind of harrassment is more worse when it happens to women than when it happens to men is simply disingenuous.

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I haven't seen anyone here say that harassment only happens to women. That said, one gender group has a history as an oppressed group, a subjugated group. And breaking free from that history isn't something where you snap your fingers and wish it away. How do you untangle from a "thing" that is that ubiquitous?

It never helps to have anyone walk up and say that because they're "strong" or "hardy" or "thick-skinned" that they can let it all slide off. And whelp, folks, everyone else should too. It's highly invalidating. And (some say) the very definition of privilege. It's taking the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality and shoving it in other womens' faces.

I'm pretty libertarian about a few things. I don't like laws that aren't well thought out, especially if they cause collateral damage to what we're trying to do.

lilyWhite said:

Of course. Ban users who make them, with police follow-up on illegal actions and credible threats.

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And I agree with this.

lilyWhite said:

But to say that one is "risking their life" because they've received the same kind of crap any major figure on the internet receives just makes a mockery of everyone who doesn't let random idiots on the internet influence their lives.

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There are times where we could discuss why there is so much crap that major figures have to deal with. I think it's important to point out when that attitude is not okay.

Sure, it's part of public life and uninformed hate should be put aside and never thought of again. I'm not going to trivialize the difficulty of doing that, though, and I think you are. I also suspect you've never had to do it. Besides, most game developers aren't public figures at the level to have the support resources to deal with that. These folks don't get bodyguards at events. They aren't Kanye or some movie star.

I guess it's good in a way that games are growing culturally to the point where they have enough cultural stature to attract nut-bars. The industry as a whole will have to deal with that. But first the industry (which I include myself in, BTW) has to deal with the abhorrent way women are treated both in studios and in the games themselves. Until then, it is not okay to brush these issues off and ask targeted developers to toughen up because public life. Not until we come clean and start supporting them properly.

Not quite. Many on the anti-#GamerGate side have praised things like Target Australia pulling Grand Theft Auto V from their shelves

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Ah yeah, that. The petition that encouraged Target to drop GTAV was vastly inflated by pro-GamerGate trolls signing it. Ironically or something? Who the fuck knows? But thanks anyway, guys. GamerGate ruins everything.

Albedo said:

GamerGate ruins everything.

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Apparently it stole your sarcasm flag.

I don't think someone claiming to have received death threats is necessarily exaggerating or being dramatic. It's possible they received death threats. In which case, it's a little misleading to say they're "letting random idiots on the internet influence their lives."

There's a tendency in these situations to think of the random idiots as being, more or less, like us, and we would never send death threats, so "death threats" must be hyperbole. Sadly, I'm unconvinced it is.

Albedo said:

Ah yeah, that. The petition that encouraged Target to drop GTAV was vastly inflated by pro-GamerGate trolls signing it. Ironically or something? Who the fuck knows?

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False flag?

calieber said:

False flag?

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Who even knows anymore. I wouldn't put it past certain folks who hate the game to put the petition together. I wouldn't put it past folks supporting GG to sign it so they could have something they can feel morally superior about.

I do find it interesting that one "side" complained to a company to get a game pulled from the shelves because of something they didn't like. The other side complained to a company to get ads pulled from a site because of something they didn't like. Depending on who you ask, one of those is evil, and one is heroic. It would be funny if it weren't making me embarrassed to admit to owning gaming consoles.

raburrell said:

For that matter, why should any 'major figure on the internet' have to deal with that crap either?

Death threats aren't ok and should be taken seriously. Period.

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Indeed. I don't see any reason why death threats should be tolerated, just because they happen often on the Internet.

It's very foundation is trash. And the well is so poisoned at this point that anyone claiming to hold on to a shred of some so-called pursuit of "journalistic integrity" is riding the Titanic to misogyny-land. Some may be aware they are doing so. Others may not be. But, yeah.... if people haven't already jumped this sinking ship, not sure what they're expecting to find there.

Gamergate STILL attempting to get women in tech shot dead by the police just in case anyone had thought sad, sociopathic trolls were capable of letting it the fuck go in April 2015.

Cos 'swatting''s far too cute a term for what's basically attempted murder.

I know a guy working to become a coppicer, and he DESPISES swatting and went on several long and involved discussions of how he wanted to go after the perps.

Alessandra Kelley said:

I wonder how the cops feel about GamerGaters trying to use them to murder women.

I suppose I should also add successfully using the cops to harrass and terrorize women.

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I have to wonder how police in general feel about no-knock warrants, but since SWAT teams actually do them, they mush feel such things are necessary in modern society, including the chances of busting open the door of an innocent citizen with a gun.

Zoombie said:

I know a guy working to become a coppicer, and he DESPISES swatting and went on several long and involved discussions of how he wanted to go after the perps.

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There are many problems here, but with swatting, a SWAT team is effectively an anonymous gun that one can point at any "ordinary" citizen that one can find a physical home address for.

It's a huge problem with the police that they can legally break into just about anyone's home, based solely on an anonymous tip. There are surely good uses of SWAT teams, but that's not it.

And yes, it's also despicable that (getting back close to the topic) anyone would give such a "tip" without having good reason to believe it's true. If this isn't already a felony, it certainly should be.