ESPN: Gay Player Doesn't Shower With Teammates!

As eyeroll-inducing as those questions are, I have to wonder if maybe it isn't back-handed helpful.

ESPN asks these irritating questions that some people still have, and maybe it takes a bunch of NFL players saying, "Uh, yeah, no. We're not tracking Mike through the showers, thanks. Everything's fine."

i believe he'll make the team.

With all the money spent on professional football, would it be so difficult to have cubicles so each footballer can have a bit of privacy?

If I were an NFL player, I'd be immediately outing myself following this news. If that's what it takes to get to shower alone, so be it...

Rufus Coppertop said:

With all the money spent on professional football, would it be so difficult to have cubicles so each footballer can have a bit of privacy?

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This.


We've seen this happen over the years in public washrooms. We went from shared trough to urinals to walled in urinals. It's the way to go. Privacy is a good idea, sexuality aside even. They should just consider all washroom/bathroom situations as co-ed and have individual privacy, as opposed to sexual preference privacy.

I keep seeing the thread title as "Gary Player Doesn't Shower With Teammates." And frankly, having seen Arnold Palmer's back hair, I don't blame him.


As to the real story, it's utter bs and if Josina Anderson thought up this angle and chose to pursue it on her own, I'd like to see her go bye-bye. If someone higher up the food chain pushed it, ditto for them. It's seriously nasty stuff, imo.

FWIW: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/08/espn-apologizes-for-report-on-michael-sams-showering-habits

ESPN apologized Wednesday for a SportsCenter report by Josina Anderson that detailed the showering habits of defensive end Michael Sam.

“ESPN regrets the manner in which we presented our report,” the statement said. “Clearly yesterday we collectively failed to meet the standards we have set in reporting on LGBT-related topics in sports.”

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It's a very creepy angle for a story, or probably even for a conversation once you are over the age of 11 or so, imho.

Privacy is great, and in locker room situations around the nation, folks work it out just fine with less privacy, too. Think of all the gyms around. Why is some football team suddenly special with what is a very hum drum situation to most people? Could you imagine your local news running a story about gay folks in the gym locker room? It would sound completely bonkers.

There is another element on the privacy issue. Some facets of modesty feel like they have, ultimately, not all that much to do with sex. I think it's a raw fact that we aren't very impressive animals - no claws, no fierce teeth, and nothing but a fairly flimsy hide to keep our insides from getting outside. I think some of the vulnerability of nakedness comes from an innate sense to downplay this, to cover it up even beyond any sexual modesty, so that we look less pitiful. (I should like to petition the Alimighty for us all to wake up tomorrow under a trim, shiny pelt. I think we'd look good that way. Damned evolution. I want my fur back.)

My husband asked if the situation were flipped, would I be more comfortable showering with lesbians or gay men and I think I'd feel more comfortable as a straight woman with lesbians, because we all have the same equipment. Same sex camaraderie, regardless of sexuality, can go a long way toward leveling out that feeling of vulnerability. And all unwanted sexual advances are obnoxious-to-dangerous no matter what genitalia it's attached to. I try to trust that people will behave themselves and write off all the ones who can't as assholes. Doesn't matter if they sit down or stand up to pee.

All that said, I did find that it was no big deal at all to be naked with several hundred Europeans-of-all-plumbing in a spa. Naked in a naked crown didn't feel naked at all. I was very unprepared for that. I was very cringey, but I didn't want to miss out on the nicer part of the spa, which was no-clothes-allowed. It turned out to be no big deal at all.

backslashbaby said:

It's a very creepy angle for a story, or probably even for a conversation once you are over the age of 11 or so, imho.

Privacy is great, and in locker room situations around the nation, folks work it out just fine with less privacy, too. Think of all the gyms around. Why is some football team suddenly special with what is a very hum drum situation to most people? Could you imagine your local news running a story about gay folks in the gym locker room? It would sound completely bonkers.

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Well, an NFL locker room is a bit different than that of a generic public facility at a gym or recreation center. For one, the press is not only allowed but claims a right to be there. Here's an interesting take (at ESPN) on that thought.

Still, even with that difference, I can't see where anyone thought this line of "investigation" was appropriate. I'm glad to hear that ESPN has reconsidered accordingly. The horse are already out in the field, but an "oops" even now is better than none at all.

Perks said:

I think I'd feel more comfortable as a straight woman with lesbians

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i would like to endorse this notion, for what it's worth.

I know that the ESPN coverage was ham-handed, but the way I see it, there are many people out there all wriggly with this stupid question. And it's offensive.

So, what do we do? We can wait until integrated teams and locker rooms are so commonplace that people don't question it, which will happen eventually, or we can bound ahead a little, speed it up with athletes right now saying, "Look, we're all here and it turns out it's fine."

A much more elegant celebration of this was the UVA swim team. I loved this and I think it's important. There will still be people who take issue, but when the straight athletes themselves start 'coming out' as fine and comfortable with their teammates as friends, some minds will change. And those who don't need their minds changed will find it easier than ever to facilitate this social transition.

I hate that it's a big deal. But my hating it doesn't change as much as I'd like - on all sorts of issues.

William Haskins said:

i would like to endorse this notion, for what it's worth.

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What happens in the girls' locker room stays in the girls' locker room.


Sadly, I'm so physically inept, I'll never get on any team anywhere, so I'll never know.

Perks said:

So, what do we do? We can wait until integrated teams and locker rooms are so commonplace that people don't question it, which will happen eventually, or we can bound ahead a little, speed it up with athletes right now saying, "Look, we're all here and it turns out it's fine."

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I want to reply with "FULLY integrated," and include the shower scene from Starship Troopers, but I'm at work and that'd get me in trouble.

I didn't even mention in my first post that I thought this was insane journalism. I'm glad they issued a statement on their blunder.

On the actual washroom comments and how we could deal with stuff like this, I stand by my original comments. I feel we are going in the direction of making the washroom experience a-sexually private. I have noticed this, at any rate. Gone are the days of men standing side by side swords out. So much awkward with that...whether you're gay or not. And change rooms have taken to being private shower settings as well...as it should be.

I'd be way more comfortable showering with lesbians than with straight men. *shudder*

StormChord said:

I'd be way more comfortable showering with lesbians than with straight men. *shudder*

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yep

Perks said:

Damned evolution. I want my fur back.)

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I've got plenty of fur. You can have it.

Perks said:

My husband asked if the situation were flipped, would I be more comfortable showering with lesbians or gay men

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Ask him the question in reverse. The come back and post his answer.

Perks said:

All that said, I did find that it was no big deal at all to be naked with several hundred Europeans-of-all-plumbing in a spa. Naked in a naked crown didn't feel naked at all. I was very unprepared for that. I was very cringey, but I didn't want to miss out on the nicer part of the spa, which was no-clothes-allowed. It turned out to be no big deal at all.

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Pictures or it didn't happen.

They could avoid all problems like this if locker rooms all worked the way Perks outlined in #10. Post big "no clothes allowed" signs on the doors and soon enough everybody would learn that birthday suits are no big deal.

OTOH, these are rooms full of hyped-up jocks, right? Maybe that's not such a great idea after all.

Part of me wonders if men who have issues with showering with gay men are less concerned with being with gay men in the shower and more concerned with people knowing they were naked in a shower with gay men.

Vince524 said:

Ask him the question in reverse. The come back and post his answer.

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Oh I did. He's completely supportive of any athlete who can do the job to be on the team and comfortably so.

But he's not terribly comfortable being naked with any company at all. (I've been with him for twenty years, so I ain't company.) That's where the question came from in the first place. Of course he's been in gym locker rooms with the likely mix of straight, gay, bi, a-, and kinkophiles and all things being equal, he'd rather be dressed.

Vince524 said:

Part of me wonders if men who have issues with showering with gay men are less concerned with being with gay men in the shower and more concerned with people knowing they were naked in a shower with gay men.

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That's probably a valid consideration.


Coming from the other end of the lens, it might be more awkward for the gay man to deal with the whole thing than it is for the straight man.

Perks said:

Oh I did. He's completely supportive of any athlete who can do the job to be on the team and comfortably so.

But he's not terribly comfortable being naked with any company at all. (I've been with him for twenty years, so I ain't company.) That's where the question came from in the first place. Of course he's been in gym locker rooms with the likely mix of straight, gay, bi, a-, and kinkophiles and all things being equal, he'd rather be dressed.

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Not sure if you got my joke of the original ? for that part, but yeah. I understand not being comfortable being nekkid infront of most people. For me I wouldn't care if they were gay straight or other, just that I have the body type of a King Kong crossed with Jabba the Hutt.

KTC said:

That's probably a valid consideration.


Coming from the other end of the lens, it might be more awkward for the gay man to deal with the whole thing than it is for the straight man.

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Probably. I can imagine that a gay man who is out may, depending on their personality type feel more uncomfortable because everyone might be watching them to see if they're watching guys and reacting and all.