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Thread: Grey Wolfe Publishing

  1. #1
    starting over Marian Perera's Avatar
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    Grey Wolfe Publishing

    Saw this today: Grey Wolfe Publishing.

    Grey Wolfe Publishing is an independent, small press publishing house headquartered in Michigan. We have embraced a "hybrid" approach to publishing, in that we aim to provide authors with the services of the "big" houses, with the attention to detail and affordability the "vanity" presses don't provide.
    They go on and on about their "good" intentions for their "Pack" of authors.

    We believe in assisting those who wish to write well, and those who desire to read well, celebrate the sacred texts of our age.
    And what, you might ask, are the "sacred texts of our age"?

    Sacred Texts:

    The term, Sacred Texts, does not solely apply to religious doctrines and the selected works of political processes. Indeed, Sacred Texts are the all-inclusive writings of society. Those instructions, parables, and poems guide people through the important crevices of life and living.
    Sometimes people neglect their important crevices.

    Grey Wolfe Publishing believes that what you write is Sacred Text. We see it as our calling to ascribe reverence to your written word through the partnership of our publishing process
    This sounds like a formula for Golden Word Syndrome. You can't effectively edit something if you're too busy worshipping it.

    We're Writers... Just Like You! Grey Wolfe Publishing is proud to proclaim that each of our team members – from our publisher on down to our office staff and bookkeeper – is a writer first and company team member second. Publishing Philosophy
    For me, that's exactly the wrong order of priorities.

    We are just as committed as you are toward achieving success. Yes, we expect an author investment in order to publish your book, but it is minimal when compared with the “vanity press” business model which expects a large payment for very little return.
    Because $1250 isn't a large payment at all

    And then there are all the other little things you as a Pack member have the privilege of splurging on:

    Facebook set-up and a single daily posting, with daily reply maintenance: $60/month

    250 Custom Bookmarks: $50

    Personalized Marketing Mentoring: $50/hour

    One, three-minute book trailer: $300 and up (price based on level of complexity).

    Arrangement and scheduling of Personal Appearance (book reading & signing): $25/each

    Custom Cover Design: $350
    Also, from the "Author Publishing Agreement":

    The term of this Agreement is three (3) years. If at any time, from the date of this agreement, before the term has ended, should the Author choose to terminate this Agreement, a severance payment of $2,000 shall be paid from the Author to the Publisher.
    Another day, another vanity press.
    Last edited by Marian Perera; 08-23-2014 at 08:41 PM.
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  2. #2
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin PatiQlee's Avatar
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    Grey Wolfe Publishing

    this is all completely new to me please forgive the blonde moments I tend to have...
    I have a publisher in the area I met through a "Meetup Group" that is offering tons of stuff for a very low price in return for 50% and 3yrs exclusive?
    I've spent the last month so focused on how to publish everything myself I haven't looked into what publishers do at all mainly since everyone says go it alone
    this is my first book and just asking... please and thank you for any and all advice

  3. #3
    Grr. Argh. Thedrellum's Avatar
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    PatiQlee, I think you may have posted in the wrong thread. Are you talking about Totally Entwined or any of their offshoots?

    I imagine moderators will separate out your comment (and mine) soon, but to possibly get an answer to what your asking, we need more information. What publisher are you talking about? What is the tons of stuff they are offering?

    In general, trade publishers will do everything for you, except for writing and revising the book. Smaller publishers may require you to do more of the work. No matter your publisher, you shouldn't be paying anything.

  4. #4
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin PatiQlee's Avatar
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    the (small local) publishing co. is offering editing, book cover, marketing, print/online, and so on... the cost thru me ($1600) and then the 50%/3yr exclusive made me curious to know if that is the norm...
    yeah wrong stream line, but I have no idea how to maneuver thru here... begging forgiveness thanks

  5. #5
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Welcome, PatiQlee. I've split your posts into their own thread so we can better help you. What's the name of the publisher?
    ICAO
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  6. #6
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatiQlee View Post
    the (small local) publishing co. is offering editing, book cover, marketing, print/online, and so on... the cost thru me ($1600) and then the 50%/3yr exclusive made me curious to know if that is the norm...
    yeah wrong stream line, but I have no idea how to maneuver thru here... begging forgiveness thanks
    Hi -

    If they're charging you money (which I think is what you mean w/the $1600, they're a vanity press. The only sales you make will be to yourself and friends you beg to buy the book.

    NO reputable publishing house charges authors. Money flows to the writer, always.

    If you want to self publish, that's fine, but you should be aware of all your options, and the cost/benefit of each, before you decide on anything. There are several forums and tons of people here who have gone both the self- and trade-publishing routes who can help.

  7. #7
    Making Einstein cry since 1994 Maggie Maxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatiQlee View Post
    the (small local) publishing co. is offering editing, book cover, marketing, print/online, and so on... the cost thru me ($1600) and then the 50%/3yr exclusive made me curious to know if that is the norm...
    yeah wrong stream line, but I have no idea how to maneuver thru here... begging forgiveness thanks
    Nope nope nope nope nope. They're not offering you anything, they're trying to part you from your money. Authors should not pay publishers ANYTHING. Zip, zero, nada. They pay YOU. Run, don't walk. This place is a vanity press. It's a cheap vanity press compared to others out there, but $1600 is still way more than the $0 you should pay to publish.
    The insane who believe they are sane are crazy. The sane who know they are insane are writers.

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  8. #8
    This hat is getting too hot Chumplet's Avatar
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    I second, third and infinity agree with the advice of the previous posters. You're just beginning the long, frustrating and rewarding road to publication, and you can do SO MUCH BETTER.

    Stick around for a while, learn your craft, heed the advice of the members who reside here. Especially the ones who have been her for a gazillion years and know the nature of the game.

    Don't hand over your money to a publisher who will likely NOT further your writing career. They just want your money.
    Last edited by Chumplet; 02-12-2016 at 01:31 AM.

  9. #9
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    $1600 *and* 50% of profits is daylight robbery even if they are good at what they do, which they probably aren't.
    Emily Veinglory

  10. #10
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin PatiQlee's Avatar
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    I finally received feed back from one of the previous authors who published thru them and not real favorable...
    I think I am just getting antsy about publishing my first book and having a hard time finding an editor. They offer editing, book cover, marketing (apparently not according to author), print / online (not so much online according to said author)
    They maybe to 'wholesome' for my romance books anyway, but I was curious since I feel more lost in this world than found
    thank you for all your advice Pati

  11. #11
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin PatiQlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaoPaux View Post
    Welcome, PatiQlee. I've split your posts into their own thread so we can better help you. What's the name of the publisher?
    thank you... GreyWolfePublishing.com (based in Michigan)

  12. #12
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    They're a vanity press. They have an entire page devoted to trying to justify why they're not really a vanity press - hint, that means they're a vanity press.

  13. #13
    Your Pixie Queen Kerosene's Avatar
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    The first section of their "Publishing Services" section explains how you should pay them.

    I've seen vanity presses try to sell you on their products before showing you the stick, but boy does this show where their ambitions are.
    Don't Fear Failure.

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  14. #14
    Write. Write. Writey Write Write. mrsmig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatiQlee View Post
    I finally received feed back from one of the previous authors who published thru them and not real favorable...
    I think I am just getting antsy about publishing my first book and having a hard time finding an editor. They offer editing, book cover, marketing (apparently not according to author), print / online (not so much online according to said author)
    They maybe to 'wholesome' for my romance books anyway, but I was curious since I feel more lost in this world than found
    thank you for all your advice Pati
    You say you need an editor. An editor and a publisher are not the same thing. If you can tell us what your goals are (for example, "my manuscript is a mess and I need someone to edit and proofread it" or "I have a manuscript that is ready to publish and I want an agent" or "I just want to have my book in print so I can hold it in my hands"), then maybe we can give you some guidance.

    Too many new authors leap into publishing without really knowing what they want or what their options are, and way too many get stung as a result.
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  15. #15
    Making Einstein cry since 1994 Maggie Maxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatiQlee View Post
    I finally received feed back from one of the previous authors who published thru them and not real favorable...
    I think I am just getting antsy about publishing my first book and having a hard time finding an editor. They offer editing, book cover, marketing (apparently not according to author), print / online (not so much online according to said author)
    They maybe to 'wholesome' for my romance books anyway, but I was curious since I feel more lost in this world than found
    thank you for all your advice Pati
    My bolding, that's what you can expect when you pay to be published. Trade publishers pay the writer for the rights to the story, then are encouraged to market and sell it to make the money back plus. When the author pays, the publisher has their money already. Put in minimal effort on cover design and editing (if any), and they keep most of the check as income. Usually they encourage the writer to buy their own books too, so more income. There's no motivation for them to sell it to anyone else. They've got their payday.

    Listen to Mrsmig. We're more than happy to help you out and show you around the wide work of publishing if you let us know what you need.
    The insane who believe they are sane are crazy. The sane who know they are insane are writers.

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  16. #16
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatiQlee View Post
    this is all completely new to me please forgive the blonde moments I tend to have...
    I have a publisher in the area I met through a "Meetup Group" that is offering tons of stuff for a very low price in return for 50% and 3yrs exclusive?
    I've spent the last month so focused on how to publish everything myself I haven't looked into what publishers do at all mainly since everyone says go it alone
    this is my first book and just asking... please and thank you for any and all advice
    Who is 'everyone', exactly? People in the Meetup Group? People selling services to the Meetup Group? If you've only begun to consider publication, you owe it to the work you've put into your book to consider all options.
    Listen to Cornflake, it's a very smart cornflake:

    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    Hi -

    If they're charging you money (which I think is what you mean w/the $1600, they're a vanity press. The only sales you make will be to yourself and friends you beg to buy the book.

    NO reputable publishing house charges authors. Money flows to the writer, always.

    If you want to self publish, that's fine, but you should be aware of all your options, and the cost/benefit of each, before you decide on anything. There are several forums and tons of people here who have gone both the self- and trade-publishing routes who can help.

  17. #17
    Disapproving plot bun disapproves. FluffBunny's Avatar
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    Company was started by an Earl Wolfe in 2013 (according to a Michigan business entity search). According to LinkedIn, he's a retired automotive engineer with no discernible publishing background.

    Duotrope puts it quite succinctly: "Reason for disqualification: They are not a traditional publisher. They charge fees for publication."

    Run far, run fast.
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  18. #18
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    PatiQlee, Amazon's Look Inside feature gives you a glimpse of what Grey Wolfe's editing is like. Most of the books I looked at were not edited to a professional standard.

  19. #19
    Looking for thylacines on CYP Helix's Avatar
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    So, when you consider the best publisher for your book, do the research. Investigate what a publisher, printer, or press house is willing to offer in return for becoming the steward of your years of creativity. Will they hold the same respect for your work... Will they work with you to create the best book possible with equanimity and open communication... Will they reward you equally for your investment of time, energy and money over a term that makes sense?

    Will they ask for $1600 and all rights for three years? Will they make you pay for any copies you want for giveaways and publicity? Will they give you a book with average covers and a ragged right margin?


    Or will you be dictated to... taken advantage of... and become bound to a company who does not have your best creative or financial interests as their prime motivation?
    Yes. Quite.

    Forgot the link: Grey Wolfe vs. Vanity Press
    Last edited by Helix; 02-12-2016 at 01:39 PM. Reason: add link
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  20. #20
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    You might find this thread interesting:

    How Real Publishing Works

    You're in the right place to find out all you need. Welcome to AW!

  21. #21
    space opera-popcorn lover!
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    Nothing to add to the warnings (except run!!!) but just to say that you don't need to rush this thing. I used to be in a desperate rush to get things out, and get noticed. But taking the time - as wiser heads convinced me to do - meant when things started happening (and they're happening quickly at the moment, which makes this even more relevant) I was equipped for them. Take the time to learn the business, to hone your skills, and to get a good support network and don't see the time wasted just because you haven't published yet.

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  22. #22
    @PeteMC666 PeteMC's Avatar
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    Some very wise people have already told you everything you need to know, but I'll sum up:

    "You do not pay a publisher, a publisher pays you."
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  23. #23
    I write novels
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    I just skimmed through a few pages on the Greywolfe site. Not only do they charge $1600 for publishing your novel, but if you terminate the agreement before three years, they charge you an extra $2000:

    http://greywolfepublishing.com/Docum...0Agreement.pdf

    And their claims about why they are not a vanity press make no sense. For example:

    Challenge: "May I send several submissions at the same time?" Several vanity presses will request that you only send one manuscript at a time. This is to eliminate the duplication of the same type of material within their cataloge, from the same collection of authors. They see this rule as promoting diversity within the books they publish.

  24. #24
    I got it covered Undercover's Avatar
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    Usually after finishing a novel one looks for an agent afterward. Have you tried this route? You mentioned it's a romance book. Even if after you tried the agent route, you can still try submitting to romance publishers directly. There are a lot of great small romance publishers out there that will pay you and not take a penny from you. Research is key. There's a huge list of them in the Bewares section, here on AW. Again, it takes time to research, but it's well worth it. Rushing it will only cause problems.
    My blog Lists of YA (and Adult) Publishers that pay advances and are accepting unagented submissions

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  25. #25
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin PatiQlee's Avatar
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    I want to thank everyone, seriously! I am still in the research of my life process
    everyone I spoke with on several sites or read on several sites said 'go it alone' self-publish. I opted to read and read and read some more on that very option never once thinking 'publishing companies' when I was approached by this (now discovering non-publisher) person in a local writers group I looked for advice which I have received plenty of and just finished reading 'how real publishing works' awesome thank you!
    I am antsy to publish, but also understand nothing happens over night (except in my books). I will check out the beware and see (still learning how to maneuver thru AW) I haven't thought of the agent route honestly because everyone seems to state how great you have to be and I'm not feeling the greatness (not to cut on myself) anyway I met with another writers group last night and one of them stated she owns 'editprose' which is where I'm heading next to research. she talked like a mentor program which is exactly what the group was last night. I feel as if i'm rambling so I will go grab a glass of wine and open another tab to do more research.
    seriously I love all of these new sites with so many wonderful helpful people, thank you

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