Writing in second language

authorMAF · Jul 11, 2014

Well, here's the thing: English isn't my first language. I learnt it when I was five years old, communicating with the neighborhood kids, but went to French school until about halfway through high school. Then I quit, and went back about six years later, by then my French grammar was gone, and so I finished high school in English instead. I'm also in my fourth year of university, which I am attending in English.

The problem is, I'm starting to feel like it's time to throw in the towel; not only with my manuscript, but in writing, period. I mean, it's all well and good to read English grammar books (which I have been, in the last 10+ years), but I'm starting to think maybe, I just shouldn't write to publish anymore. My English clearly sucks, and I certainly can't afford to pay a professional editor, and while I love to write, I've always done it to tell a story, to share it one day (and hopefully make some money with it since any little amount helps a single-mom). So if I'm not writing to publish, then I no longer see much of a point, and that really plunges me into despair, since I spend 80% (if not more) of my time, writing.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for in posting this here...I suppose I just needed to write it out...I don't have anyone in my life I can talk to about this, no one even knows I write, and those who do, just aren't interested in hearing about it at all...

Antonin · Jul 11, 2014

Um, your English seems fine to me. I would not have known it wasn't your first language had you not mentioned something. So that's something

Trying to get published sucks though, and its normal to hate absolutely everything when you're trying to do it.

But hey, if you just want to write a story just to have people read it there are some options for you. I know Wattpad is one of them. You write something, post it there and people read it for free. I'm currently experimenting with it so I can't really say for sure how good it is... but some people here have mentioned getting scouted by an agent that way. It's unlikely for you or I, but it's a thought.

authorMAF · Jul 11, 2014

Antonin said:
Um, your English seems fine to me. I would not have known it wasn't your first language had you not mentioned something. So that's something

Trying to get published sucks though, and its normal to hate absolutely everything when you're trying to do it.

But hey, if you just want to write a story just to have people read it there are some options for you. I know Wattpad is one of them. You write something, post it there and people read it for free. I'm currently experimenting with it so I can't really say for sure how good it is... but some people here have mentioned getting scouted by an agent that way. It's unlikely for you or I, but it's a thought.

Thank you for saying that you couldn't tell English wasn't my first language :Hug2:

Also, while I do write to tell a story, hopeful that people will read it one day, I also wanted to publish since any (even if small) amount helps, being a single-mom. But the website does seem interesting; it might be fun to write some short stories or something and post there....thanks!

rugcat · Jul 11, 2014

The fact that English is not your native tongue may indeed affect your writing style. Perhaps it won't be quite as easy and fluid for you as it would be for a native speaker, but that's not all there is to writing. And that doesn't mean you can't write; your posts show a perfectly good command of the language.

The famous example of a writer for whom English was not his first tongue was, of course, Joseph Conrad.

Conrad is one of the great English novelists, but he learned English late and couldn't speak it fluently until his mid-20s. Reportedly, he spoke with a heavy accent his entire life.

Django Rinehart, one of the great and seminal jazz guitarists, had his chording hand crippled by an accident (some say a fire, some say a knife fight) there were certain things he no longer had the physical capability to do so he had to invent his way and his own style – which did not prevent him from greatness.

Now, I don't know you, but I would guess chances are you won't end up as one of the greatest novelists of all time or one of the greatest jazz musicians ever.

But there's no reason, if you have the talent, that you can't produce terrific work and find success in writing if you want to.

Fuchsia Groan · Jul 11, 2014

Keep in mind, the problem with writing in a non-native language may not be grammar or correctness. It may be something more subtle that I'm just going to call comfort or fluency.

I'm an English speaker who has been reading and studying French for decades. I lived for a year each in Paris and Montreal. I think I could manage to write a grammatical essay in French, no problem. But I still wouldn't want to write fiction in French, particularly YA, because I know I wouldn't get the voice right, and voice is huge. I wouldn't know the slang, the idioms, the colloquialisms, the nuances, the difference between something an elderly person might say and something a teenager might say. In English, I know those things just from speaking and hearing it every day.

It's quite possible for a non-native speaker to know all those nuances. They just have to be in the right context, listening to the right kind of people and soaking up the way people actually use their language (which is very different from grammar rules). But I think it's still an uphill battle.

If I were you, I would maybe try an experiment. Write a monologue in the voice of your heroine, using words you think she would really use and not "writer's" words. Do this in both languages and notice the differences. Think about which language feels most comfortable to you. Then try to bring some of your heroine's language into your writing, even if it's third person. Find a voice that feels real and not stilted, whatever the language you're using.

Often simpler is better, especially in YA. Trying to use too many idioms and metaphors and imagery and such can lead you astray, into language you're not comfortable with. Don't worry about "sounding like a writer"; focus on finding the character's authentic voice and telling the story clearly.

If you communicate in English each day in college, or in your neighborhood, you may have all the knowledge you need. Rather than taking your cue from books, especially older books, I would listen carefully to young native speakers and try to channel them when you write.

ladyillana · Jul 12, 2014

Fuchsia Groan said:
Keep in mind, the problem with writing in a non-native language may not be grammar or correctness. It may be something more subtle that I'm just going to call comfort or fluency.

I'm an English speaker who has been reading and studying French for decades. I lived for a year each in Paris and Montreal. I think I could manage to write a grammatical essay in French, no problem. But I still wouldn't want to write fiction in French, particularly YA, because I know I wouldn't get the voice right, and voice is huge. I wouldn't know the slang, the idioms, the colloquialisms, the nuances, the difference between something an elderly person might say and something a teenager might say. In English, I know those things just from speaking and hearing it every day.

It's quite possible for a non-native speaker to know all those nuances. They just have to be in the right context, listening to the right kind of people and soaking up the way people actually use their language (which is very different from grammar rules). But I think it's still an uphill battle.

If I were you, I would maybe try an experiment. Write a monologue in the voice of your heroine, using words you think she would really use and not "writer's" words. Do this in both languages and notice the differences. Think about which language feels most comfortable to you. Then try to bring some of your heroine's language into your writing, even if it's third person. Find a voice that feels real and not stilted, whatever the language you're using.

Often simpler is better, especially in YA. Trying to use too many idioms and metaphors and imagery and such can lead you astray, into language you're not comfortable with. Don't worry about "sounding like a writer"; focus on finding the character's authentic voice and telling the story clearly.

If you communicate in English each day in college, or in your neighborhood, you may have all the knowledge you need. Rather than taking your cue from books, especially older books, I would listen carefully to young native speakers and try to channel them when you write.

I agree with Fuschia. It may just missing nuances and/or lack of practice. My first language is English, but I grew up in Argentina and went on to major in Spanish in college and spent time in Ecuador. I can write great non-fiction in Spanish. I can review literature, write essays, etc, but I cannot write fiction in Spanish. My characters have no voice. I feel that if I practiced more, went back to Argentina for awhile to listen, etc, I could get better with a lot of hard work. I love Fuschia's idea of writing a scene in both languages.

Amanda Harper · Jul 18, 2014

I wouldn't have guessed English wasn't your first language, but writing on a forum is different from writing fiction. What Fuschia said about "comfort" is exactly what I wanted to say when I clicked on this link.

French is my first language, but I write all my fiction in English because it's the language I feel comfortable with in writing. I find it easier to manipulate than French, which can be beautiful if done well but very clunky and awkward if not. I also read mostly in English, watch movies in English whenever I can, and I've lived in an English-speaking country. I did my first writing in English, so I feel comfortable with it.

So I think the question isn't whether or not your English sucks (though I'm sure it doesn't). Why do you write in English? Because you're more comfortable with it. As long as that's true, I think you should keep writing in English.

sohalt · Jul 18, 2014

I feel you. My first language is German, yet I'm outlining the current WIP in English. There's hardly a day on which I don't question the wisdom of that choice. It feels a bit like crippling yourself on purpose.

I'm reasonably confident that the English I use for academic purposes is on par with that of a native speaker. But fiction is a different beast entirely. I agree with Fuchsia that the issue is less one of grammar but rather one of capturing the nuances, of accurately representing the various speech patterns and vocabularies of different speakers and speech communities.

Just because it's hard, doesn't mean it's hopeless though. If I'm crazy enough to try it, why shouldn't you?

TheThingsSheWrote · Jul 19, 2014

Jumping in to say that I feel for you. My native language is Spanish, and I always feel like I'm a crappy writer because of it, or rather, because of what sometimes feel like a lack of full command of/comfort with the language. That said, I also agree with many who have posted here. I would not have known that English isn't your first language if you hadn't pointed it out.

We who come to the English language later in life tend to be kind of anal about it, and that fear can hold us back, but only if we let it. The fact of the matter is that you seem to have a better command of the English language than a lot of people I've met who were born into it.

So just go for it. If it is your passion and it is meant to be, you'll make do. After all, making things flow well is what rewrites are for.

Wilde_at_heart · Jul 20, 2014

Writing well enough to get published is a challenge for native English speakers as well as for those writing in a second language. Spend more time reading through other threads on SYW and you'll see.

Many people don't see their first, or even second or third novel published; for some it's a very long, uphill road. As the oft-repeated saying goes, most 'overnight successes' took years to get there.

Whether you want to be a writer or not is entirely your decision. I think your frustration come more out of inflated expectations of how easy it would be to get something out there, rather than your actual abilities. If you did well in school and were a quick learner, it's probably doubly frustrating. The thing to keep in mind is that getting published is a marathon, not a sprint - you don't win by going as fast as you can. If money is a fairly immediate need then your time is probably going to be better spent getting a job, and working at writing in your spare time. Either that or concentrate more on short stories for the time being.

Skills take time to develop and while some people do start further ahead than others, there's no guarantee of where anyone will end up. What makes the difference when it comes to actual success is sticking to it for long enough to get results. Learning, practicing, trying to improve.

How Patience and Persistence Lead to Success:
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs.../how-patience-and-persistence-lead-to-success

Pisco Sour · Aug 9, 2014

I understand how you feel! Spanish is my native language but I feel more comfy writing in English. I studied it in high school and have lived in the UK for 20 years. I used to worry about whether grammar trumped characterisation until I sent out my first manuscript and got offers from every publisher who read it. It's just my opinion from my own experience, but I think that if you can tell a good yarn, any problems with mechanics (prepositions hate me!) can be ironed out in edits! What publishers want is a damn good story!

Writing in second language

authorMAF

Antonin

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authorMAF

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

ladyillana

Amanda Harper

Lurking fish.

sohalt

TheThingsSheWrote

Wilde_at_heart

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Pisco Sour

Writing in second language

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Lost in the Fog

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

Lurking fish.

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