Yet another shooting: Seattle Pacific University

So, how many does it take?

Zoombie said:

So, how many does it take?

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Depends on whether we decide we want it to stop or we want to keep letting people treat guns like toasters in the name of commerce.

Another shooting?

Gosh, is it Thursday already?

Recent updates list 1 dead, 2 wounded, and 1 severely traumatized.

Got to admit, I'm really feeling the apathy now. Every week there's another shooting, more people dead, people arguing the same tired reasoning pro-gun, anti-gun, and while the public debates, nothing changes.

ShaunHorton said:

Recent updates list 1 dead, 2 wounded, and 1 severely traumatized.

Got to admit, I'm really feeling the apathy now. Every week there's another shooting, more people dead, people arguing the same tired reasoning pro-gun, anti-gun, and while the public debates, nothing changes.

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I used to be pretty pro-gun libertarian.

That changed fast. All it took was hearing repeated empty platitudes spoken over piles of dead children.

ShaunHorton said:

Recent updates list 1 dead, 2 wounded, and 1 severely traumatized.

Got to admit, I'm really feeling the apathy now. Every week there's another shooting, more people dead, people arguing the same tired reasoning pro-gun, anti-gun, and while the public debates, nothing changes.

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The names of locations and the dead and wounded changes. Only person got gunned down? That's a slow Friday night in Chicago.

As long as some selfish bastard can proclaim publicly "your dead kids don't trump my Constitutional rights" and he's not covered in spittle and fecal matter the notion that this country cares more about guns than people isn't going to be easily dispelled.

ShaunHorton said:

Recent updates list 1 dead, 2 wounded, and 1 severely traumatized.

Got to admit, I'm really feeling the apathy now. Every week there's another shooting, more people dead, people arguing the same tired reasoning pro-gun, anti-gun, and while the public debates, nothing changes.

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I feel the same way. And I'm not even in America...

ShaunHorton said:

Recent updates list 1 dead, 2 wounded, and 1 severely traumatized.

Got to admit, I'm really feeling the apathy now. Every week there's another shooting, more people dead, people arguing the same tired reasoning pro-gun, anti-gun, and while the public debates, nothing changes.

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I'm afraid I'm growing inured to these events as well, and am tired of the inevitable mental health of a lone individual vs. second amendment debate that ensues every single time.

Whoever came up with the idea of a 'student building monitor' with pepper spray should also feel some satisfaction.

Zoombie said:

So, how many does it take?

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Or how often do they have to come?

rugcat said:

Another shooting?

Gosh, is it Thursday already?

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Is it the noon hour already?

My, how the morning's flown.

Last night I watched Mark Ruffalo's The Normal Heart.

It wasn't till 1985 that Reagan finally uttered the word, Aids, and claimed that from then on, research into that deadly disease would be a priority on the federal agenda.

In 1986, funding was cut by 11%.

When will our leaders actually lead?

OMG. My older brother knows the guy who took down the shooter. My brother was good friends with his brother in high school. Apparently Jon is really shaken up. I'm just impressed that he had the presence of mind to pepper spray and tackle the guy while all of that was going on.

Williebee said:

Depends on whether we decide we want it to stop or we want to keep letting people treat guns like toasters in the name of commerce.

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Yea. There's a reason that I support gun control and not just doing away with them. I bet we could greatly reduce events like this by just proper regulation and education alone. Liscencing and such things should be mandatory.

Regulation certainly won't stop ciminals from getting them, but neither would doing away with the 2nd amendment either. That would just flood the black market with them. We need to find a livable medium.

But, moving on from that. I'm extremely impressed by the person who tackled and pepper sprayed the shooter. It was extremely brave of him to do that. The true measure of a hero, he should receive some sort of medal.

Alan Yee said:

OMG. My older brother knows the guy who took down the shooter. My brother was good friends with his brother in high school. Apparently Jon is really shaken up. I'm just impressed that he had the presence of mind to pepper spray and tackle the guy while all of that was going on.

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He has the gratitude of us all. He saved lives. Who knows how many?

I'm sure he is shaken up. That's a helluva thing to have gone through.

He's a student, right? He should never have to pay another dime in tuition.

bookmaker said:

He's a student, right? He should never have to pay another dime in tuition.

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Yep, he's a student, though the shooter was not. I haven't actually looked up the numbers, but since it's a private Christian university, the tuition is probably higher than average. They probably won't offer anything monetary, but I agree with you.

I originally recognized the last name and wondered if he was related to one of my brother's friends. The guy's looks, the university he attended, and where he was from seemed to indicate so. My mom texted my brother, who confirmed that was the name of his friend's brother.
I'm sure he and his family are a little overwhelmed right now. He's constantly being touted as a hero all over national news right now, so it's a little hard for them to keep a low profile.

My heart aches for the family and friends of the man who died, those who were injured, those who witnessed it, those who no longer feel safe at their university as a result, and all the students and faculty of SPU. I hope the rest of the injured all make it through okay.

Alan Yee said:

Yep, he's a student, though the shooter was not. I haven't actually looked up the numbers, but since it's a private Christian university, the tuition is probably higher than average. They probably won't offer anything monetary, but I agree with you.

I originally recognized the last name and wondered if he was related to one of my brother's friends. The guy's looks, the university he attended, and where he was from seemed to indicate so. My mom texted my brother, who confirmed that was the name of his friend's brother.
I'm sure he and his family are a little overwhelmed right now. He's constantly being touted as a hero all over national news right now, so it's a little hard for them to keep a low profile.

My heart aches for the family and friends of the man who died, those who were injured, those who witnessed it, those who no longer feel safe at their university as a result, and all the students and faculty of SPU. I hope the rest of the injured all make it through okay.

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Yes, increasingly and sadly, common, and so we tend to look at the larger picture.

But every incident is first and foremost about those involved.

Reminds me of the guy who intervened in the Gabby Gifford shooting. If I'm not mistaken, another guy who came just after was armed, and if he wouldn't have had the presence and calm, might have shot the guy who'd actually wrestled the gun from the shooter.

Hope the SPU hero can come to grips with what he's been through in short order. Maybe the recognition he's sure to get will help with that.

Devil Ledbetter said:

I'm afraid I'm growing inured to these events as well, and am tired of the inevitable mental health of a lone individual vs. second amendment debate that ensues every single time.

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There's another debate -- all the guns you want vs a ban on assault style weapons and high capacity magazines.

A student guard subdued the gunman as he reloaded.

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This guy had a shotgun which doesn't have a high round storage capacity. If he'd had an AK-47 it could have been a lot worse.

bookmaker said:

Reminds me of the guy who intervened in the Gabby Gifford shooting.

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Yes – but unfortunately the shooter in that case was using a semi automatic handgun with an extended magazine and thus was able to get off a large number of shots and kill a whole bunch of people before he had to stop to reload.

nighttimer said:

The names of locations and the dead and wounded changes. Only person got gunned down? That's a slow Friday night in Chicago.

As long as some selfish bastard can proclaim publicly "your dead kids don't trump my Constitutional rights" and he's not covered in spittle and fecal matter the notion that this country cares more about guns than people isn't going to be easily dispelled.

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Interesting you should mention Chicago, considering how conservatives and civil libertarians often point to Chicago as proof that many of the gun activists of the Brady Campaign stripe and the talking heads who call for action after publicized mass shootings do not actually care about gun violence. Furthermore, the number of shootings in Chicago also show why having more of these mass shootings publicized are not going to chance anyone's mind about gun control and how unproductive the debate is. When a mass shooting like this occurs, the anti gun side will call for more restrictions so that we never have to see this and the pro gun activists will counter that if gun restrictions worked Chicago would be among the safest cities in the US. And that is why it just goes around in circles.

In any event, I still stand by what I said before: Stop treating these mass killers as victims, tortured souls, mini celebrities and public figured we should be paying attention to. Stop the sensationalist coverage of these people and stop giving them the exact kind of attention they were hoping for when they did this. It would be nice if we could at least start there since that should not be as controversial or contested as dealing with this va gun restrictions.

RichardGarfinkle said:

I've said this before. For those of you who don't know Chicago's geography, let me explain a thing called Indiana. The state of Indiana which has basically no gun laws is right next to the city of Chicago. People cross the state border all the time and purchase guns and fireworks and other things that are illegal in Chicago.

Chicago's laws don't matter if our neighbors are arming our street gangs.

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Where is the proof that the majority of firearms used in Chicago are bought in Indiana other than anecdotal evidence? And that still does not explain why the crime rates are not equally high in Indiana either. And why should citizens of Indiana have to have their gun rights curbed because Chicago's criminal class refuses to change its behavior and Chicago can't control its crime? Indiana does have lax gun laws and with the exception of a few cities like Gary has way lower crime rates. Indiana's legal gun owners are not responsible for Chicago's inability to control crime rates.

emax100 said:

Where is the proof that the majority of firearms used in Chicago are bought in Indiana other than anecdotal evidence? And that still does not explain why the crime rates are not equally high in Indiana either. And why should citizens of Indiana have to have their gun rights curbed because Chicago's criminal class refuses to change its behavior and Chicago can't control its crime? Indiana does have lax gun laws and with the exception of a few cities like Gary has way lower crime rates. Indiana's legal gun owners are not responsible for Chicago's inability to control crime rates.

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http://projects.propublica.org/graphics/atf-gun-traces#Illinois,imports

Xelebes said:

http://projects.propublica.org/graphics/atf-gun-traces#Illinois,imports

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I will grant that shows that a large number of guns in Illinois come from out of state, though it shows that it is technically not a majority. Moreover, Chicago's criminals have been known to come with all kinds of ways to get around gun laws. The NYT notes: http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/11/us/how-criminals-get-guns-in-short-all-too-easily.html

The gangs also get their firearms from people like the clerk of a gun shop just outside of Chicago. The authorities said the clerk stole more than 70 pistols from the store and sold them on the streets to gang members. Before taking the guns, he forged names from the local telephone book on the Federal purchase forms that help the authorities keep track of firearms. Drugs Plunged Gangs Deeper Into Violence


With rare exceptions, buying and selling a handgun has been illegal in Chicago since 1983, though people who held licensed guns before then were allowed to keep them. Nonetheless, getting a pistol is simple. In February, the police closed down a small store across the street from an elementary school for selling guns in the back room.

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