The Flash (CW) - Possible Spoilers

If HR is Savitar, then I don't think they'll ever bring in another Wells. I mean, 2 out of 3, right? (Anyone hearing the Meatloaf song in their head?)

Of course, the first only looked like Wells.

I just don't want to say goodbye to Tom Cavanagh.

Vince524 said:

I just don't want to say goodbye to Tom Cavanagh.

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I want something to happen where Earth 2 Wells decides to come back and live on Earth 1. He was my fave by far :<

RichardGarfinkle said:

My current hope for next season and Tom Cavanagh is based on Legends of Tomorrow's Eobard Thawne plotline. If the Reverse Flash finally disappears from the timeline then maybe the real Earth 1 Harrison Wells will reappear and Cavanagh can play him.

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Me too, although then Barry shouldn't be Flash yet.

I feel like I missed something. When did Barry rescue Wally from the speed force? Was that on Supergirl? I have that taped, but didn't get around to watching it yet.

Was that all the real actors singing, because they were all really good!

RichardGarfinkle said:

Victor Garber who plays Stein was also a Broadway singer, I think.

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He was on Broadway and played Jesus in 1973's movie-version of Godspell (70's -mega-perm and all).

Off to watch the episode...

Both Grant Gustin and Melissa Benoist were on Glee.

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So was the week's villain; that's the guy who played Blaine.

RichardGarfinkle said:

The rescue was last week's episode entitled Into the Speed Force.

And yes, those were the actual actors singing. These shows have a lot of trained singers.

Both Grant Gustin and Melissa Benoist were on Glee.
Jesse Martin (who plays Joe) was in the original Broadway cast of Rent (he was also in the movie).
Victor Garber who plays Stein was also a Broadway singer, I think.
And John Barrowman-- just got to YouTube and search for John Barrowman singing.

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Oh yeah, I did see that.

I knew Grant was on Glee, and I remember from Season 1 I think that he was at the karaoke bar with Kaitlyn. It was Winn and Cisco who really surprised me. Their voices were outrageous.

"Duet" was such a good episode. Just, wow, yesss.

I was a little worried when they started off with only Kara and Barry -- two newly singletons -- trapped in the dreamworld together. I'm glad they didn't go the rebound route, and instead dealt with the issue in a much more fun way, though I'll agree with Richard that Kara and Barry have far more chemistry than their designated love interests.

As always, though, I'm inclined to believe the fault lies with the piss-poor development of Iris's character. She's so bland that literally any female character with an actual personality and backstory has instantly better chemistry with Barry -- like Kara and Felicity Smoak. Kaitlyn probably would, too, if she didn't suffer from the same constantly-sidelined-and-given-no-chance-to-shine problem as Iris. It's even creeping in with Jesse Quick, who's a hero in her own world but shows absolutely none of that initative or confidence in Earth One.

Also, every single AU version of Iris is more interesting and dynamic than her canon self: whether it's Earth 2 Iris West-Allen or MusicalAU Millie, without Barry in her way she's always a much more loveable character. It's hard to support their romance when we've seen Iris without him, and how badass she is.

It just really surprises me that we can have Supergirl, an amazing show with fully fleshed out female characters, and then... this.

Okay, I absolutely loved this episode. I have to admit I love Barry and Kara together. Their friendship makes my absolute day. I had no idea Cisco and Winn could sing like that!! And when I saw the actor for Blaine in Glee I about screamed. I'm wondering if they intend to bring his character back? The way he kind of bopped out suggesting he had someone else to teach a lesson to made me wonder if we'll see him in Arrow or Legends, or even just later on in the Flash in general.

Sidenote, Barry and Kara's little song they sang made my day. I loved when Barry said "I'll be there...in a flash. What? It was funny." The two of them are a riot together every time they're on screen.

RichardGarfinkle said:

Just looked them up on IMDB. Jeremy Jordan who plays Winn started out in musicals, and Carlos Valdes (Cisco) is a singer with some solo albums. There are some major musical chops hiding in these shows.

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Makes you wonder. Did they think musical episode and were pleased to know they had some talent here, or did they think, hey we have a lot of musical talent here, let's do a musical.

Sort of like a chicken and the egg thing, but with tights, super powers, and singing.

I think it's the latter, actually. My understanding is that the episode was specifically planned because they had a strong amount of musical experience. And the production team are all huge geeks that probably watch or listen to OMWF​ almost as much as I do.

Okay so who wants to take a stab at who Savatar is? One look and Killer Frost is on his side? My first guess is some form of Ronnie Raymond.

The thing is that this version of Caitlin is very underdeveloped. She went to do the heat vampire thing in this episode and it was the first time I had seen either universe version of her do so. We don't know how different or how similar she is to Caitlin. Who does your evil alternate personality trust from your past? I'd say"no one" but has she had the chance to make her own allies?

The only one that comes to mind is Caitlin's mom.

Barry conjures disturbing images of Keanu Reeves circa Bill & Ted with that floppy hair.

I dubbed that cut "the Sam Winchester."

On another topic ... has any character on that show suggested yet that Iris could or should try to save herself? She's been told she's going to get killed. Did she ask for details? Use that info to figure out something she could do to change history, rather than relying on Barry or Wally? Really, if somebody told me, "You're going to drown on Thursday," I'd spend the day as far away from water as possible. Hell, I wouldn't even take a shower.

So, if she knows Savatar's going to grab her, she doesn't have to just stand there. She can go in armed. A knife in the knee, slipped in through his armor. Cisco could whip up some sonic thing to immobilize him long enough for Iris to get free. Or, if she's of the fatalistic bent, she can rig a bomb. "Go ahead, asshat. Do your worst. If my heart stops, this rig goes boom. I'm going to die no matter what. How about you?"

And yes, she'd have time. It doesn't matter how fast Savatar is because, let's face it, every speedster on the show from Barry on down tends to stand around and monologue for a few vital minutes before they get around to the running part. Iris could kill and butcher a pig in the time it takes Savatar to brag about how unbeatable he is.

Technically, since she knows the date of her projected death, she could take a week in Aruba. Grab a flight to Hong Kong. Go on a slow cruise to Alaska. Backpack the Himalayas. Trek the Amazon.

Or.......

Have their friggin' portal creation device (AKA Cisco) send her to A WHOLE DIFFERENT EARTH.

Yeah, the whole you know you're going to be killed, when and where is a bit of a plot hole. After all, why not get Supergirl to cross over, contact Green Arrow and the Legends and have them all around the park.

But WHO IS SAVITAR!?!?!
That is all.

The reason I haven't really looked into any of these other things is this:

We've been led to believe that Savitar is more powerful than Zoom or Eobard Thawne (whom comic fans know as Professor Zoom but is only known by his color scheme on the show). Between Flash and Legends of Tomorrow, we've seen that Thawne is capable of pretty much anything including easily navigating time travel as long as he has his standard level of confidence/arrogance and is not faced with an equally confident, equally fast speedster.

For that reason, it seems logical to me that anything that does not involve stopping Savitar before that moment or stopping him by use of speedster during the moment, will not stop him, or even slow him down.

That said:

I didn't really think strongly about the idea of traveling to other worlds. However I wouldn't bet my life on the idea that Savitar doesn't possess all the powers of Vibe (seeing as how both speedsters and vibers have vibration-based abilities).