Windows 8 Menu and Bottom Scroll Arrow Missing

While we're on the topic of Win8.1 upgrades - how much data does this require? There's plenty of space on my C drive, but I only have a 5GB per month data limit for my Internet at the moment. The pop-up told me that 8.1 would download in the background while I worked - which says to me that it's probably a big update!

And quite frankly, I'd rather wait till I have better Internet data limits (soon hopefully) if it's going to be a sizable download.

Anyone know?

Cliff Face said:

While we're on the topic of Win8.1 upgrades - how much data does this require? There's plenty of space on my C drive, but I only have a 5GB per month data limit for my Internet at the moment. The pop-up told me that 8.1 would download in the background while I worked - which says to me that it's probably a big update!

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Exactly size'll depend on your version of Windows 8, but it should be in the ballpark of 3.5 GB.

dpaterso said:

I'd seen that asked before somewhere... and a quickie search would suggest that installing 8.1 does not wipe out already installed programs or data.

For example, http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...ll-of-my/d5dd79e4-7b76-4770-939c-412a41c0575e

-Derek

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no it doesn't, thankfully.

I should point out that the only way upgrading an operating system wipes out all data (if it doesn't mess up) is if you take too big of a leap in the process. In other words, if you have XP and you upgrade to 8.1, provided you actually can, expect to wipe your hard drive. I don't remember what the cut off is in situations like that though.

Arcadia Divine said:

I should point out that the only way upgrading an operating system wipes out all data (if it doesn't mess up) is if you take too big of a leap in the process. In other words, if you have XP and you upgrade to 8.1, provided you actually can, expect to wipe your hard drive. I don't remember what the cut off is in situations like that though.

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If you know what you're doing, you can upgrade from Windows 98 to Windows 8 without losing user data.

There will be apps that won't run under the new OS, but user data will migrate.

And if you know what you're doing, you always have redundant backups.

dpaterso said:

Glad you found a way to make it work.

Passing thought, the problem with not installing official upgrades like 8.1 is that you might encounter other unpredictable results, because third party software expects everyone to have the up-to-date upgrades aboard.

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Yep. If a user decides to freeze at a particular level of any OS they need to be prepared to freeze all their apps too, or nor upgrade to a version that requires a later version of the OS.

There are sometimes good reasons to do this, for instance, you can't afford to update peripherals, or apps, if you update, or the OS update removes a feature you need or want or that a core app relies on.

Medievalist said:

If you know what you're doing, you can upgrade from Windows 98 to Windows 8 without losing user data.

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You're right, but I find more often then not that people won't take the time to figure that out before hand. Even then if you take the time to figure this out, you have to be even more careful then before. I run across a lot of cases where people have taken the time to figure this out but they ultimately screw themselves in the end due to one little thing.

A lot of FUD, Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt got passed around in this thread.

There's two points I wanted to address, but I don't intend to call the speaker out on it, so I'm not quoting them directly.

First, as we found out, this was *never* a Windows 8 problem. Firefox exhibited a behavior, not Windows. That happens sometimes, if a program hasn't been updated for the latest operating system. I'm not enough of a programmer to trace this out and determine what, exactly, caused the problem. But when it's just one application like this, I put the source of the issue as the application, not the operating system. I know why a non-technical user would think so. A technical one should have known better.

The second has to do with ownership. Part of the problem is language, but it's an important distinction. There's nothing *illegal* about changing the operating system on what I loosely call "Wintel" PC's (basically, any product defined as a computer and sold with Windows on it). Yes, you can void warranty and be unable to get support, but you *are* the owner of the PC and are still free to do it. Like dropping a Ford engine in a Chevy. If you want to go to the trouble, you have the right, but neither Ford nor Chevy are going to help you.

Part B of this is that it isn't Microsoft's doing. It's HP, Lenovo, Dell, whoever manufactured the PC, that's putting that restriction in place. They've opted to not build drivers outside of Windows 8/8.1 compatibility, have decided not to support anything else. Microsoft sells "OEM" copies (Original Equipment Manufacturer) of Windows at a drastically reduced price to manufacturers and then tells the manufacturer that they are solely responsible for included support (if any).

None of this should let Microsoft off the hook. I think the transition to a new interface was botched on many levels. I think I've become used to the new interface. I still prefer the old Start menu, despite the rather popular joke that to turn off your PC, you had to go to START. I believe that Microsoft had a plan that they never really told us about, and that, too, has been part of the problem.

But just because Microsoft has major flaws, it does not logically follow that they are the source of all of them.

robjvargas said:

A lot of FUD, Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt got passed around in this thread.

There's two points I wanted to address, but I don't intend to call the speaker out on it, so I'm not quoting them directly.

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Mr. Vargas:

You are not in a position to call anyone out.

If you have a problem with a post use the

You know what I see in this thread?

A user trying to get help.

The member in question has resolved the problem to said member's satisfaction.

Since you have not actually had access to the computer in question, you do not know what the issue was or is. It could be all manner of things; we have at best second hand data. While I'm sure the member is being completely honest, users often aren't informed enough to know that something is a symptom not a problem, or that there is in fact more than one problem.

We know that the user in question had a problem.

We know that something resolved the problem—we don't know that it was specifically removing Chrome or that it wasn't.

The professional response in order to understand the cause would involve not only a close examination of the computer, but to see if the problem occurs on a new account on the same computer. This is in general a wise step in such problems early on, as a basic diagnostic .

The next step would be to reinstall chrome and see if the problem reoccured, or better still, attempt to duplicate the problem on control unit.

We aren't in a position to do that.

What we know is that the member in question is now happy.

That's great. And we're done here.