"Old" People Writing for Teens V
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We got our feedback for Regionals, and it was amazing. A huge difference in feedback being in an A- chorus instead of a B- chorus. Now we're striving for all As. Our feedback was really consistent, so we know where to work. Meanwhile, we started learning a new song last night, and I have thrown down the gauntlet at my chorus, saying "I will be off paper by next rehearsal! Who's with me?!" and several people have picked that gauntlet up. (It's a mash-up of Queen's "Don't Stop Me" and Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" and the DSB is pretty straightforward in my part, so there's no reason that at least my fellow leads can't have it down).
In other news, PT was very well-behaved today, and stuck to the workout, which also challenged me. I don't know if she actually listened last time when I said I wanted her to focus on working out, even though she naysayed it, or if my (somewhat passive-aggressive) text later in the day telling her that I'd be missing the next week for Regionals made her realize I really was pissed at her and she reevaluated her approach, but we didn't talk about anything except working out, EXCEPT that the very first thing she says to me is that the girl at the front desk thinks I was rude to her because when she asked how I was while I was trying to figure out why my fingerprint wasn't scanning to get in the gym, I said I was fine. This is a literal conversation I had today.
PT: So the girl at the front desk is new. And she says you were rude to her.
Me: Because I was making faces at the fingerprint scanner?
PT: Because when she asked how you were, you said "fine."
Obviously, there was inflection in there, but honestly, the inflection was of a person who was concentrating on something else, not giving attitude. Apparently, if I'm not 100% chipper at 6:20 in the morning, I'm rude. And the faces were me attempting to be chipper. It was "OMG, this is ridiculous, so I will make ridiculous faces about it."
In other news, PT was very well-behaved today, and stuck to the workout, which also challenged me. I don't know if she actually listened last time when I said I wanted her to focus on working out, even though she naysayed it, or if my (somewhat passive-aggressive) text later in the day telling her that I'd be missing the next week for Regionals made her realize I really was pissed at her and she reevaluated her approach, but we didn't talk about anything except working out, EXCEPT that the very first thing she says to me is that the girl at the front desk thinks I was rude to her because when she asked how I was while I was trying to figure out why my fingerprint wasn't scanning to get in the gym, I said I was fine. This is a literal conversation I had today.
PT: So the girl at the front desk is new. And she says you were rude to her.
Me: Because I was making faces at the fingerprint scanner?
PT: Because when she asked how you were, you said "fine."
Obviously, there was inflection in there, but honestly, the inflection was of a person who was concentrating on something else, not giving attitude. Apparently, if I'm not 100% chipper at 6:20 in the morning, I'm rude. And the faces were me attempting to be chipper. It was "OMG, this is ridiculous, so I will make ridiculous faces about it."
Yay for good news! A- is still quite respectable, and it means A is within reach.
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I've had one beta look at a an older version, which is what led to a couple of the major rewrites I did before. I haven't had anyone read this version. Honestly, I've never had much luck with betas. I can usually find people who say they want to read it for me but almost every time they get busy and never get back to me or have trouble giving feedback beyond grammar and sentence structure. It probably doesn't help that my life very often gets in the way of my writing, so I sometimes have trouble betaing for other people. I'd love to find someone who'd be willing to take a look at the current draft, but I've had so many people flake out or complain that the draft is too rough that I'm a little shy about trying again.
At this point, all of my novels feel like throw away. I'd love to actually finish something, but I've been so stuck on this that I can't seem to focus on anything else. I know that I need to take a really long break from it, but I've lived with the dream of this being my first published novel for so long it's a hard to let it go and realize that I need to move on to something else.
*sigh* sorry feeling a little pessimistic. I think I've known for a long time that I really need to set this one aside and do other things. Letting go is hard to do.
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All of my books were throw aways for ages (okay, not 'throw away' but totally 'it's a thing that happened, but that doesn't mean I need to revise it and all that.') I don't really think that was a bad thing. I had stories I wanted to write, and I wrote them. That's awesome, and I learned a lot.
I went on like that for a while until I got to something and pounded through revision just to learn how to revise. Same story - I learned a lot revising until I had something that was ready to test out querying with.
To me? All of this isn't failure, it's just part of the process. I know other folks are awesome and take a shot and it's the winner right there, but I am working my way through, and I'm cool with that.
The only person you should be obligated not to be rude to at 6:20am is your barista.
Crikey, Sage, that PT has to pick on you for something, doesn't she? Well, guess what, you're not responsible for some girl's feelings.
Kayliin: know how you feel. I can't even get betas in the first place, and I too no longer can beta for others. I have in the past, but it took a lot out of me; one novel (horror) was excellent, I hope he got it published, one novel (middle school MC) was excellent and that got published, and the third (science-fiction) lacked tension.
I hope I get one with the novel beta thing Sage talked about earlier in the thread, but it's 140k long. Sigh.
Kayliin: know how you feel. I can't even get betas in the first place, and I too no longer can beta for others. I have in the past, but it took a lot out of me; one novel (horror) was excellent, I hope he got it published, one novel (middle school MC) was excellent and that got published, and the third (science-fiction) lacked tension.
I hope I get one with the novel beta thing Sage talked about earlier in the thread, but it's 140k long. Sigh.
So much this!!!!
So I wrote a guest blog post for a contest and it was selected as one of the 5 guest posts for the month of May, so I'm kind of excited about that. It's for Ava Jae's blog Writability. I'll share a link when it goes up on May 10th.
I talked to my agent about my revisions and she loved everything except the ending. She really feels like I improved the book so much, so I'm really happy about that, but she had suggestions for the ending. That seems to be a constant that both she and several betas have expressed dissatisfaction with the ending. I had ending A, but then wrote ending B at agent's suggestion. It didn't get picked up in the first round of submission, so on this revision I went back to ending A but with changes because it didn't have enough resolution. At first when she suggested ending C, I was like "Nope! Ending A was always what I planned for this novel!" But once we started talking about it I really realized that ending C might actually be what is needed. I made my MC do ending A because that was what I wanted, but now looking at her personality, the actions that take place in the book, and how she would react to this, ending C is making so much more sense. So I'm going to try rewriting the ending again and see how it goes. After that I should be on submission again.
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I completely agree. I've learned so much in the years I've spent writing and rewriting and I feel I am a much better writer than I was even just a couple years ago. I think I mostly just get down on myself because I had big dreams when I was younger and my life has taken a completely different turn. I'm having to adjust to that and it's hard cause pretty much nothing in my life is where I thought it'd be by now (not that my life is bad. It's just not quite what I was expecting for this stage.). I'm an idealist and when I don't meet my ideal I get a little depressed and have to remind myself that I cannot be perfect and must just keep working at things.
travelgal: Yes, it's very hard to read for other people. I would love to beta, but I just can't seem to give them the time they deserve, so I don't anymore. Which is sad because I don't feel like I can ever learn to be a really good beta if I never actually beta for anyone or have any one beta for me.
Jtr: Congrats on the blog post! That's very exciting. Also good luck with the rewrites. I'm sure they will be great.
Kaylinn and travelgal - I'm sorry to hear you've had poor luck with beta readers. I think we all must, though. It can take a while to find a good fit. That's been my experience anyway, and I've seen plenty of people say the same. It's been a slow, roundabout course for me, partly due to the fact that I've been finding my niche as a writer all this time, too.
ETA: I just realized, the following may not apply if you really don't have time to read for others, so I apologize. Not meaning to be insensitive. But for others looking for betas:
As far as readers flaking out on you, my best luck with beta readers has come from people who also needed their MS beta'd at the same time. Still, there are always going to be people who don't come through. Usually that's been due to their life blowing up in some way, loss of job, divorce, etc. And I once flaked out on a writer, too - life got super busy suddenly and I had to tell them I didn't know when I'd be able to finish. But in that case, they weren't also reading for me, so at least it wasn't lopsided.
I do think it's important to find betas whose work and skill level is about at the same place as yours, if you're exchanging manuscripts; otherwise, they may be unhappy if yours is in a rougher state. But I've seen in those "find-a-critique-partner" communities people say upfront, 'this is an early draft' kind of thing, so it might be worth a shot to do the same.
Another important things about finding betas: While family and friends can read your work and be supportive (sometimes), they're not usually that helpful in terms of improving your craft. Instead, seek out writers or are writing - or who at least frequently read - the genre and age category (YA) you're writing. It makes a big difference as to how on-point their feedback will be, but perhaps even more importantly, it will give you greater confidence in how seriously to take their feedback.
Finally, Kaylinn, remember to be gentle on yourself. You've had a young child for the past year. That's a really hard time to concentrate on anything. I gave up trying to write during that time, and now I wish I'd tried harder, so even the little you're doing is more than I felt up to. At some point, you'll regain momentum. And even if you set it aside now, this favorite project of yours could still end up being the one you query first. However, I think it's also best to not fixate on things happening a certain way - to give our dreams the freedom to take on new shapes, to be flexible where we don't have total control. I'm an idealist, too, and can relate to much of what you said in your post. My life is very good compared to most of the world, I suspect, but I had romantic visions of saving the world through activism/charitable work, etc., and I found the world is a stubborn thing to change lol. I regret not being a little more selfish and making time for the only thing I've always wanted to do - write fiction - so now I'm passionate about putting my energy into my writing instead.
Sage - It sounds to me like the person with the wrong attitude is your PT. Yikes. I don't like that she thought she had to mention the girl at the front desk's issue with you. Sounds like she may have boundary/control issues.
jtrylch - I didn't realize you were revising between sub rounds. I'm glad you seem to be having constructive conversations with your agent. That's how it's supposed to work.
ETA: I just realized, the following may not apply if you really don't have time to read for others, so I apologize. Not meaning to be insensitive. But for others looking for betas:
As far as readers flaking out on you, my best luck with beta readers has come from people who also needed their MS beta'd at the same time. Still, there are always going to be people who don't come through. Usually that's been due to their life blowing up in some way, loss of job, divorce, etc. And I once flaked out on a writer, too - life got super busy suddenly and I had to tell them I didn't know when I'd be able to finish. But in that case, they weren't also reading for me, so at least it wasn't lopsided.
I do think it's important to find betas whose work and skill level is about at the same place as yours, if you're exchanging manuscripts; otherwise, they may be unhappy if yours is in a rougher state. But I've seen in those "find-a-critique-partner" communities people say upfront, 'this is an early draft' kind of thing, so it might be worth a shot to do the same.
Another important things about finding betas: While family and friends can read your work and be supportive (sometimes), they're not usually that helpful in terms of improving your craft. Instead, seek out writers or are writing - or who at least frequently read - the genre and age category (YA) you're writing. It makes a big difference as to how on-point their feedback will be, but perhaps even more importantly, it will give you greater confidence in how seriously to take their feedback.
Finally, Kaylinn, remember to be gentle on yourself. You've had a young child for the past year. That's a really hard time to concentrate on anything. I gave up trying to write during that time, and now I wish I'd tried harder, so even the little you're doing is more than I felt up to. At some point, you'll regain momentum. And even if you set it aside now, this favorite project of yours could still end up being the one you query first. However, I think it's also best to not fixate on things happening a certain way - to give our dreams the freedom to take on new shapes, to be flexible where we don't have total control. I'm an idealist, too, and can relate to much of what you said in your post. My life is very good compared to most of the world, I suspect, but I had romantic visions of saving the world through activism/charitable work, etc., and I found the world is a stubborn thing to change lol. I regret not being a little more selfish and making time for the only thing I've always wanted to do - write fiction - so now I'm passionate about putting my energy into my writing instead.
Sage - It sounds to me like the person with the wrong attitude is your PT. Yikes. I don't like that she thought she had to mention the girl at the front desk's issue with you. Sounds like she may have boundary/control issues.
jtrylch - I didn't realize you were revising between sub rounds. I'm glad you seem to be having constructive conversations with your agent. That's how it's supposed to work.
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Kaylinn: I do feel that endless revision becomes its own trap after a while. If it's turning into a situation where you keep making significant changes without ever truly finding the story you want to tell, I'd recommend either committing to one version of the story and finishing it, then showing it to readers, or alternately just setting it aside for a while. There is a chance that you'll find the one version of the story that feels right—something like that happened with my current manuscript—but I also worry that it can take a lot of time you could spend on other projects that might go smoother.
And yeah, finding betas is hard. I've had a lot of difficulty with that myself. Partly due to being so introverted, and partly due to being picky, I have trouble meeting finding writing groups or partners that I feel comfortable with. RaggedEdge has it spot on that one of the keys is finding people with the same relative skill level is important, but that can be difficult. Something I like to do if someone beta reads my work or I swap with them, and it goes well, is ask them if they'd be interested in doing a swap at some point in the future too. That hopefully makes it a little easier for both people to find betas, since it can be quite tricky.
JTR: Good luck with rewriting the ending! That's awesome that your agent gives you good feedback like that on your work—I hope to find that same kind of agent someday when I'm querying.
Yay!
Now I just need to fix my opening pages and write a summary/query at some point in the next two weeks...
And yeah, finding betas is hard. I've had a lot of difficulty with that myself. Partly due to being so introverted, and partly due to being picky, I have trouble meeting finding writing groups or partners that I feel comfortable with. RaggedEdge has it spot on that one of the keys is finding people with the same relative skill level is important, but that can be difficult. Something I like to do if someone beta reads my work or I swap with them, and it goes well, is ask them if they'd be interested in doing a swap at some point in the future too. That hopefully makes it a little easier for both people to find betas, since it can be quite tricky.
JTR: Good luck with rewriting the ending! That's awesome that your agent gives you good feedback like that on your work—I hope to find that same kind of agent someday when I'm querying.
Yay!
Now I just need to fix my opening pages and write a summary/query at some point in the next two weeks...
Sage - It's cool to see the Beta Project up again. Thanks for doing that. I'm not sure if I'll do it or not but I'll definitely consider it. I'm just at a weird place in between projects right now.
Once again I find myself without a good novel ready to beta, but that hasn't stopped me from entering to be a wild card entrant in the past.
People might like that because it's short or because it's different.
I know the short stories that were entered a couple of years ago got several requests.
Also, a lot of people enter with unfinished mss, which is what I'll probably do this year. Last year I had some people comment at the end that they didn't know it would be so common to enter with WIPs, and they were sad that they didn't do so too. My last 2 beta reads were entered both last year and the year before, and I had requested them in 2015's BP.
I know the short stories that were entered a couple of years ago got several requests.
Also, a lot of people enter with unfinished mss, which is what I'll probably do this year. Last year I had some people comment at the end that they didn't know it would be so common to enter with WIPs, and they were sad that they didn't do so too. My last 2 beta reads were entered both last year and the year before, and I had requested them in 2015's BP.
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The Beta Project is my favorite! Thank you Sage 
I'm in to read as usual. I'm toying with the idea of entering my unfinished MS... It was supposed to be done in the beta project, and yet here we are...
I'm in to read as usual. I'm toying with the idea of entering my unfinished MS... It was supposed to be done in the beta project, and yet here we are...
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I don't have anything to enter this year, but I'll be stopping by to check out the entries (& hopefully offer to beta read). I've nearly finished revisions on last year's entry following several rounds of excellent beta readers and plan to start querying this coming week - gulp! 
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The Beta Project
I probably wouldn't have finished my October 2017 release if it hadn't been for the Beta Project! It's mentioned in the acknowledgments
I don't really have an MS, finished or unfinished, to enter. I'm still (not) working on last year's entry and hasn't gotten very far due to various circumstances. My plan is to write on it this summer, but I don't think it's ready for a beta project (or: I'm not ready, haha). I don't want to keep any beta readers' offers hanging the way I did last year, so... BUT I definitely want to jump in and critique, and maybe offer to beta read. I beta'ed two projects from last year's BP, and that was a lot of fun (looking at two fellow AW Oldies writing YA!).
I probably wouldn't have finished my October 2017 release if it hadn't been for the Beta Project! It's mentioned in the acknowledgments
I don't really have an MS, finished or unfinished, to enter. I'm still (not) working on last year's entry and hasn't gotten very far due to various circumstances. My plan is to write on it this summer, but I don't think it's ready for a beta project (or: I'm not ready, haha). I don't want to keep any beta readers' offers hanging the way I did last year, so... BUT I definitely want to jump in and critique, and maybe offer to beta read. I beta'ed two projects from last year's BP, and that was a lot of fun (looking at two fellow AW Oldies writing YA!
).
I like going through the process with you guys.
I now have an okay hook, but I'm trying to cut down another to get it in the 150 words. The first one is what I call the "sparkly" hook because it's pretty much all romance and just implying at bigger issues. The second one feels like it has more substance, but I've cut so many words from the beginning to make room for stuff at the end (and still at 155) that I'm not sure the beginning flows anymore.
I now have an okay hook, but I'm trying to cut down another to get it in the 150 words. The first one is what I call the "sparkly" hook because it's pretty much all romance and just implying at bigger issues. The second one feels like it has more substance, but I've cut so many words from the beginning to make room for stuff at the end (and still at 155) that I'm not sure the beginning flows anymore.
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Hook's all set. Had it get picky since my own version had 165 words (booo)
BUT, scene 1 is 600 words, and scene 2 is a change of place and 1k... Saaaaaage, how do you feel about a chunk less than 750 for the body of the crit? (I could trim/splice, but I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to for 150 words, or even 200, 250 if I tighten further, but that's a lot of real estate out of a potential 750...)
BUT, scene 1 is 600 words, and scene 2 is a change of place and 1k... Saaaaaage, how do you feel about a chunk less than 750 for the body of the crit? (I could trim/splice, but I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to for 150 words, or even 200, 250 if I tighten further, but that's a lot of real estate out of a potential 750...)
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