"Old" People Writing for Teens V

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Sage

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This is how nearly all of my decision making is done now. I get stuck, so I ask my characters what they want to do or say.

Then chaos usually ensues.

Ha, sometimes I can guide them, but they can take me on detours.

For Blake, he had quite an emotional roller-coaster in this book, in the sense that half the time his emotions were either on overload or on mute, so he had a lot of reasons to actually question why he was still feeling certain things at certain times. He's also the one most likely to have someone explain in plain terms the OTPiness of the duo, since he's the only one anybody else can talk to. Also, Ren spent the whole book trying to figure out if he was in love with someone else. TBH, there's still a good chance he knows he's in love with Blake, but doesn't talk about it because he believes (rightly) that Blake would freak out if he ever mentioned it. Love is the thing Ren does best (though he said it's following Blake around)
 

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For Blake, he had quite an emotional roller-coaster in this book, in the sense that half the time his emotions were either on overload or on mute, so he had a lot of reasons to actually question why he was still feeling certain things at certain times. He's also the one most likely to have someone explain in plain terms the OTPiness of the duo, since he's the only one anybody else can talk to. Also, Ren spent the whole book trying to figure out if he was in love with someone else. TBH, there's still a good chance he knows he's in love with Blake, but doesn't talk about it because he believes (rightly) that Blake would freak out if he ever mentioned it. Love is the thing Ren does best (though he said it's following Blake around)

Now I'm working out to deal with this at the end of the book when everybody's safe and feeling their normal level of emotions again. I really don't think that Blake would confess that he might maybe possibly have romantic feelings for Ren, and in fact, I'm pretty sure that for now, he'd push any questions he had about it away until he was faced with them again. But a demon kissed him while pretending to be Ren right in front of Ren, so he feels the need to address that and sort of joke it off as a "seduced by a dark side" thing, and Ren lets him because it's so much fun to tease him and because the idea that Blake would be in love with him would seem too out there for him at this point and pushing him on that would risk ruining their friendship.

However, I'm worried that readers will feel like I'm queer baiting them with the hint that Blake might maybe possibly have romantic feelings for Ren but having them joke it off at the end. (LBH, the entire relationship could be considered queer baiting, because I adore hoyay subtext so much; that's where this all started, really). I feel like Blake's questioning deserves a story of its own, not to be tacked on in the denouement, and since the kiss happened right before the climax, and Blake spent the climax mostly-emotionless, this is really the only place to put it if I want it in this novel. I guess I can see what the betas think, but it's already worrying me.
 

CoffeeBeans

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That is a tricky one Sage, especially since the bromance aspect is the center of it. If that becomes a romance part, it changes a lot. The queerbaiting question does seem like a solid concern, but definitely one for beta.

Is anyone eyeing the Dec 7 Pitmad? I'm dying to enter if just to test the waters, but the 280 character pitches are ruining my fun. (I also don't have a QLH-approved query, just the hook I used in the Beta project.) The MS needs some fixes, but mostly doable stuff... Suppose neither the MS nor the query matter if I don't have pitches.
 

JKRowley

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If this is your Nano project, I think your concerns should be addressed in January. Let it stew. The right answers will come.

And, btw, congrats on winning, Sage!

I wasn't aware of the Dec. 7 Pitmad. Do you all get alerts or pay better attention than I do for this stuff? I only know when this stuff happens from posts here, although I am on Twitter every day.

I may not be recovered from NaNo before then. I am nearly at 50K words, and should win, but the story is not done. I'll have to keep working on it into December. :cry:So close, yet so far. Funny how it has only been a month, but I want to work on something else!

Hope you all had a Happy Thanksgiving, those of you who celebrate.
 

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Is anyone eyeing the Dec 7 Pitmad? I'm dying to enter if just to test the waters, but the 280 character pitches are ruining my fun. (I also don't have a QLH-approved query, just the hook I used in the Beta project.) The MS needs some fixes, but mostly doable stuff... Suppose neither the MS nor the query matter if I don't have pitches.

I was thinking about it ... the old 140-character limit would have been a no-go (mad props to those of you who could summon something incredible out of it) but 280 seems less daunting. (I say, having not tried to whip anything up yet.) But I'm in final revisions and not certain I'll be 100% finished by 12/7, and I don't want to pitch until I'm absolutely satisfied with every word of the manuscript. Because ...

I got feedback on my first 50 pages this week from an agent/former YA editor (I spent my holiday bonus on a lit auction critique. I regret nothing.), and it confirms what I suspected and what I've been working on — that my opener needs rejiggering. Not hefty changes, just enough tinkering that I need to work, let sit, work again ... and that takes time. Aforementioned agent said she'd love me to query her with the full after I revise, so when I get this revision up to snuff, I'm going to start querying her and other agents. She was embarrassingly complimentary in her edit notes, so I feel like the manuscript and pitch are strong enough to take the next step. Soon.

So yeah, I'd like to hit the December 7 deadline, but I'm not going to go for it if I don't feel ready.
 

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(I spent my holiday bonus on a lit auction critique. I regret nothing.)

:Clap: I was super tempted by the charity auction a month or so ago, but I needed very practical car repairs. Good for you!

Frankly, I think I am also underprepared. BUT the things after pitmad don't have to happen instantly. So, if I have a query ready and a good pitch, and they ask for the first 5 pages, I could be ready. If they ask for the first 3 CH, I could send it in a week.... that's not impossible. So far, my changes have been changes-changes, move this, cut that, a million typos. Nothing I think needs tons of thinking just doing...

This is the story I'm telling myself. Also, I have no idea anyone even wants this MS. That's really what a PitMad pitch could help determine for me...
 

Sage

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Sounds like a December project for me *rubs hands together*

As a sequel, I'm not worried about the query for PB&J.
 
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Sage

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If anyone's looking to practice their flash fiction, the Countdown to 2018 Flash Fiction Challenge is under way. You make your own thread to post your stories based off the prompts Zan gives us each day of December. You can do one each day, or just do them as they appeal to you, which is what I did last year. Links in my sig, or head to the Flash Fiction Challenge subforum in the Writing Exercise forum. The password is "flashed"
 

Netz

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Is anyone eyeing the Dec 7 Pitmad? I'm dying to enter if just to test the waters, but the 280 character pitches are ruining my fun. (I also don't have a QLH-approved query, just the hook I used in the Beta project.) The MS needs some fixes, but mostly doable stuff... Suppose neither the MS nor the query matter if I don't have pitches.

I am. :) I noticed in the last PitMad that a highly favourited pitch incorporated comp titles, so I've updated my pitches to include some. Thank goodness we have an increased character count is all I can say, lol (yup, I'm pretty much using all 280 characters). I've just re-read my pitches after not having looked at them for several weeks and I'm still happy with them - phew! Good luck to anyone else entering! :)
 

Sage

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I hate the idea of 280-character pitches. No question that I've embraced 280 for all other tweets, but I still hate it for pitch contests.
 

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I haven't embraced 280 for any tweets (they still look weird and spoil my fun) but 280 for a pitch is longer than my elevator pitch. Also, I don't have comps because the story has been done a million times. Is anyone else doing the pitmad? Maybe I'll revive one of the pitmad threads. I don't know.
The query seems to be doing okay, and I'm 50 pages through edit with two cuts and one add that feel like they'll work out a lot of kinks.
 

Sage

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I thought a lot about Blake and Ren officially being romantic yesterday (thanks to a flash piece I was writing) and the mechanics of it are starting to worry me. One of the ways in which it is romantic to pair them up is because Blake is the only person Ren can touch 100% of the time. At the same time, this is what makes Ren's love for Blake's grandmother not as weird as it could have been: it's understood that they never had sex, and that they loved each other in this idealized unconditional way for sixty years, despite the fact that she went on to marry someone else and have a kid while Ren stayed sixteen. Blake often talks about how weird it is, but Ren has developed coping mechanisms to deal with how sad the situation really was.

Blake and Ren is a different matter. They can touch, and sex is a real possibility for them. But already we have Ren stuck at sixteen and Blake has aged to eighteen (from fourteen when he inherited Ren). Any romance they have would get creepy after a while, and unlike other teen romances, where you can internalize that it might be a HFN instead of a HEA when someone is immortal in it, Ren's stuck at Blake's side for the rest of Blake's life even if they break up (never mind that it would also break Ren's heart and he'd probably disappear). It's also impossible for Blake to become a ghost like Ren (which is the solution most immortal/non-immortal romances come up with). Even if it were not on the page--and I can't imagine that Blake's cynical brain wouldn't follow this line of thought at some point, especially while he's looking for reasons not to turn their bromance into a romance--I would always have it in the back of my mind
 

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It feels like it's been years since I've been on here, but I know it's only been a few months. That's how this semester feels to me. There are definitely times when coming here would have been more productive than arguing with Nazis on Twitter, but then I'd have to face the fact that I should have been writing more.

So, my quick update: I've written two drafts of a flash story that I plan to submit to my university's literary journal. This isn't paid but it will be the first fiction publication I can think of that will officially be edited by someone who has the power to tell me "no," so I definitely think it's a step. I'm also working on the second draft of a short story that I plan to revise and submit somewhere by May (I've set the goal of five submissions by the end of May) as well as having the fifth or so draft of Chapter 1 of my WIP novel.

This means that I have to confront something I've been thinking on and off about and am ready to commit to soon: whether or not to written under a pseudonym. I've gotten feedback from a Professor that my reasoning to do so is a good one: I don't want any books I publish as a psychology student (and later, Psychologist) to be confused with my fiction work.

Of course, there is another question that brings up. I've been starting to wonder if I should choose a gender-neutral pen name due to most of my characters and, well . . . *gestures at genre* I don't know, is a man writing about teen girls a turn-off to most female audiences? If so, would a gender-neutral pen name be any amount of an improvement, at all? (This is assuming that my content is decent, of course, which is a separate issue I work on every day.)

Also: I'm really enjoying being a writing tutor and will probably be presenting at Writing Center Conferences in both March and October!

Sage, after reading your description of the situation . . . definitely something to question, whichever way you go. I'd like to suggest something, but the best that I can think of is to wonder what audience you've cultivated and what they'd be okay with. That's a really meta answer, though, so that can be unfulfilling, especially if that's not something you take into concern during every step. I'm just thinking that some audiences expect constant high-risk romances (CW, maybe Twilight), some audiences are okay with very minimal romance (Harry Potter), most fall somewhere in-between, but maybe enough toward one side to take into consideration as a factor? I wish you luck in the decision-making, though.
 

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ManInBlack, I'm basically decided to use initials. I worked as a journalist/reporter for years, and my real name is on the internet already... so I would like to make some distance if I need to, but I also don't feel any professional need to have the two be completely different.

So... Help? I got one of the WriteOncon critiques, and I'm totally going to send it because who doesn't want help from an agent. THEN I did #pitmad and got a like from an agent with a great reputation for being active in helping writers improve.

Now here I am with 10 pages, 3 CH, 1 query to have ready to send out in the next few days... and I am questioning everything. I have made a bunch of bigger changes in the last week or so (lost about 5k from the MS, changed character names, etc etc) and now I might rewrite the last scene of CH 3 to send to the agent. It's all great stuff, but I'm also feeling a little overwhelmed. (also, I have three days at robotics next week and this weekend I'm supposed to go home and help my mom get her christmas shopping done. Mine is not even close to done...) :cry:
 

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Yay, for so much interest, CB. I don't think you should worry about anything you're questioning with regards to the critique. That's what a critique is about! As for the #pitmad request (Congrats! I peeked and saw it was a great agent), that's going to be up to you. #Pitmad, in the end, is all about asking you to query them, usually with pages, so if you don't feel ready to query yet, no reason not to postpone. Now, you probably won't get to put "#pitmad" in the query if you delay more than a couple days, but you might feel better about what you're sending. But, if you think that you're ready enough and these are just nerves, I say send. (I usually send even if I'm nervous I'm not ready).
 

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Congrats to you too, Sage! I saw that shiny like you got as well!

Thanks about the crit. The agent is closed to queries but she has an MSWL for a story really close to mine, so I'm hoping I'll catch her eye. Who knows, right? At least I'll know it meets her standard when I get to full querying and she's reopened?

As for #pitmad, I feel like not using it as a chance to send something would be dumb. The agent wasn't on my list before #pitmad, so it feels like a freebie. She wants three chapters. The last scene of the third chapter might get a total rewrite to on-screen something that was off screen. I don't know if I want to do that, and I had it as a "maybe, we'll see" sort of thing. Pushing that decision isn't the worst thing in the world because I'd have to decide it eventually anyway... It's less work to keep the scene, and I can move one from the next chapter into that one to give it more oomph. If i rewrite it, it can end where it is. I'm mostly not sure I can get a scene that I only have a rough outline for from zero to ready in two days or whatever I'll have once I get home from visiting family.

Thanks for listening to me puzzle this out. :Hug2: Good luck on your own sending out!
 

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ManinBlack, I wish I would have used a pen name. My name is so problematic in systems and doesn't sound authorly.

And yeah, girls read teen fiction written by men....like John Green, Neal Shusterman, etc... I've heard it recommended for women authors to use initials, because women will read books by male and female authors, but men tend to read male authors.

Coffeebeans, congrats on the #pitmad request! I'd go for it.
 

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I just sent off my 10 pages for crit. I'm sure I'll realize I've made some bumbling error in the next five minutes, but here we are. This might be the only quiet time during my family visit, so I can say I made the most of it.

JKRowley, I totally agree. Loads of the bigger names in YA are male... I haven't considered what makes a name sound writerly... now I wonder...
 

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ManinBlack, I wish I would have used a pen name. My name is so problematic in systems and doesn't sound authorly.

And yeah, girls read teen fiction written by men....like John Green, Neal Shusterman, etc... I've heard it recommended for women authors to use initials, because women will read books by male and female authors, but men tend to read male authors.
I guess I just follow a lot of people on twitter who are much more interested in books written by the same demographic as the lead than the public. If I were to glance at my twitter feed, I would think nobody would even want to consider a book by a straight white man (though I know there's a demographic that wants only that).

Coupled with my own concerns about whether this is even an ethical question (I'm not exactly part of a disenfranchised or underrepresented group), all of your feedback has convinced me to drop this line of concern. Thank you all!
 

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I guess I just follow a lot of people on twitter who are much more interested in books written by the same demographic as the lead than the public. If I were to glance at my twitter feed, I would think nobody would even want to consider a book by a straight white man (though I know there's a demographic that wants only that).

Coupled with my own concerns about whether this is even an ethical question (I'm not exactly part of a disenfranchised or underrepresented group), all of your feedback has convinced me to drop this line of concern. Thank you all!

I'm taking the "Save the Rainforest" approach to this. I think publishing needs diversity, and everyone agreed it is long overdue. I don't think that means people don't want your book or my book or someone else's book. Save the rainforest doesn't mean "screw all those other trees, we don't need them" just that some trees are harder to find/less protected/etc.

Don't reject your own MS. Leave that choice to someone else.
 

ManInBlack

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I'm taking the "Save the Rainforest" approach to this. I think publishing needs diversity, and everyone agreed it is long overdue. I don't think that means people don't want your book or my book or someone else's book. Save the rainforest doesn't mean "screw all those other trees, we don't need them" just that some trees are harder to find/less protected/etc.

Don't reject your own MS. Leave that choice to someone else.

This is fair. A lot of it comes down to the fact that, as a straight white cis male writing stories that heavily feature teen girls of color that are often not straight, my brain tends to alternate between "this is a story that needs to be told" and "I'm a fraud," and I'll probably continue to fluctuate between the two no matter how much formal and informal information I take in, and will probably only be slightly mediated by feedback from betas.
 

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Everything is submitted to places. *deep breaths*

There was a typo in there when I sent off the crit pages. I found it when I sent off the other pages. Oh well, that's what a crit is for, right?

This was a stressful day. I'm going to celebrate with cocoa.
 

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Done with chorus for the year. To be honest, after International, I just phoned chorus in anyway, but I knew people were coming to this concert for me, so I kept going despite my lack of enthusiasm

Home too late to deal with the Countdown, so I guess this will be the first day I don't have it done on time they year

Good luck, CB!
 

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Hopping on board the doubt train myself now 😟

I love my story, my wife says I love it more than her sometimes, but the more I write the more I feel this story has already been written. It's a classic 'resistance' story that was popular among YA a few years ago, but I wanted a mostly grey cast to make it a little less cliche, so there's no true good/evil characters (my MC is about to kill hundreds for what she feels is right, only for it to blow up in her face).

My other MS is a bit fresher, but the amount of work needed to make it readable is scary to think about.

Hopefully Christmas will get me out of this funk.

As a side note, reading about everyone's little successes here always gives me a boost, so thank you for sharing and I'm always cheering you on from the back 😊
 
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