"Old" People Writing for Teens V

jtrylch13 · Feb 21, 2017

Sage said:
I've done all sorts of POVs, but I do tend to be in first present these days.

JTR, it's so tough when the rejections are "didn't connect with the characters." There could be things to change, but it's so generic that it's hard to know what direction to change them, if you are even willing to do so. But, worth keeping in mind, it could easily be a buzz phrase for "I'm passing but I don't have a specific reason to give you."

Exactly! Which is why I'm approaching this re-read with a wait and see attitude. I would worry about it less if it wasn't the same thing a few betas mentioned. At that time, it was only like 2 among 9 or something, so I dismissed it as everyone has their own taste, but now I really need to make sure I'm giving these characters voices and personalities people can connect with. We'll see. As an author I think it's a constant struggle to write what you want and love, and also to know this is business and make choices to better or change your work if necessary.

KSavoie · Feb 21, 2017

jtrylch13 said:
I know we've talked about tense and POV before, but no matter what I do, I always end up in 1st present. It just feels right to me. But I read pretty much anything. Done well, the pov and tense doesn't matter, just the writing.

This is me as well. I ALWAYS end up back in first present.

Rejections from editors. I am no stranger to this. I've gotten over 10 now. I'm not actually keeping track of the exact number because it'd be too disheartening haha. I had a couple of editors love it but couldn't get it through acquisitions. One in particular really loved it, but if the whole team doesn't say yes... *shrug*. I've also gotten a few editors say it didn't have a strong enough commercial hook. I've already decided how I'm probably going to rewrite the entire thing one day haha. A few of the editors requested to see my future work so that's promising. I'm just waiting on beta notes for book2 and it'll be with the agent and hopefully on sub by the end of March!

KiwiLady · Feb 21, 2017

JTR - Sorry to hear you're off sub. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I'm happy to read again for you? Let me know.

I always seem to write first person past. I keep telling myself I'll try third next time. That hasn't happened yet, and couldn't for my current WIP, but maybe...

I just sent a grumpy email to my sons new school. He's been there four weeks and I hate being "that" parent, but he came home yesterday saying they had been made to get changed for PE outside yesterday as the class had been too noisy to use to changing rooms. For some kids, this probably wouldn't be a big deal, but my boy is very private and hates anyone seeing him getting changed. That coupled with the new environment equal an unhappy son. The school don't see it as punishment though - apparently it is an opportunity to get the boys behaving in an appropriate manner. They can't seem to understand that this is embarrassing for some kids. Not a happy mama!

travelgal · Feb 21, 2017

KiwiLady said:
JTR - Sorry to hear you're off sub. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I'm happy to read again for you? Let me know.

I always seem to write first person past. I keep telling myself I'll try third next time. That hasn't happened yet, and couldn't for my current WIP, but maybe...

I just sent a grumpy email to my sons new school. He's been there four weeks and I hate being "that" parent, but he came home yesterday saying they had been made to get changed for PE outside yesterday as the class had been too noisy to use to changing rooms. For some kids, this probably wouldn't be a big deal, but my boy is very private and hates anyone seeing him getting changed. That coupled with the new environment equal an unhappy son. The school don't see it as punishment though - apparently it is an opportunity to get the boys behaving in an appropriate manner. They can't seem to understand that this is embarrassing for some kids. Not a happy mama!

Your poor son! That's just horrible! Would that have happened if the noisy class had been girls?

jtrylch13 · Feb 22, 2017

Kev - Rejections suck, but I'm doing okay. I guess I need a lot more to make me feel depressed.

Besides, there were tons of compliments on my voice, my writing, my world building, so I feel good about all that.

Kiwi - I am super pissed for you and your son. I would be a flaming momma bear at that school!

Home with sick kids today. I am not doing well. My heart condition causes chronic fatigue, which makes me less patient and able to handle children. And I'm not that great about it in the first place. This is 3rd day their home alone with me and 5th day since I've had some alone time. I realize this is not the end of the world, but for me it means I'm at the end of my rope, out of spoons, ready to burst, whichever metaphor you'd like to pick. Plus, add on to that I'd really like to actually work on my career some day and I'm super depressed. Hubs stayed home for a few hours to get the day started, which really helps, but I'm really dreading today. And tomorrow. It just never ends.

ManInBlack · Feb 22, 2017

KiwiLady said:
I just sent a grumpy email to my sons new school. He's been there four weeks and I hate being "that" parent, but he came home yesterday saying they had been made to get changed for PE outside yesterday as the class had been too noisy to use to changing rooms. For some kids, this probably wouldn't be a big deal, but my boy is very private and hates anyone seeing him getting changed. That coupled with the new environment equal an unhappy son. The school don't see it as punishment though - apparently it is an opportunity to get the boys behaving in an appropriate manner. They can't seem to understand that this is embarrassing for some kids. Not a happy mama!

So as punishment for being noisy, they're forced to disrobe publicly? That can't be considered okay. Even as it is, a lot of what's considered okay is incredibly uncomfortable for me (and probably a lot of other people); part of the reason I don't like going to the gym is that they apparently just expect you to take your clothes off in front of everybody else and there are only two bathroom stalls. I dealt with this in high school by wearing gym clothes under my regular clothes but you need forewarning for that. I hear people talking about schools with group showers and the like and I'm always thankful not to have gone to one.

edutton · Feb 22, 2017

KiwiLady said:
I just sent a grumpy email to my sons new school. He's been there four weeks and I hate being "that" parent, but he came home yesterday saying they had been made to get changed for PE outside yesterday as the class had been too noisy to use to changing rooms.

I'm sorry, what?? That's ridiculous!

ManInBlack said:
I hear people talking about schools with group showers and the like and I'm always thankful not to have gone to one.

Yeah, we had those in middle school. It was awful.

edutton · Feb 22, 2017

jtrylch13 said:
Home with sick kids today. I am not doing well. My heart condition causes chronic fatigue, which makes me less patient and able to handle children. And I'm not that great about it in the first place. This is 3rd day their home alone with me and 5th day since I've had some alone time. I realize this is not the end of the world, but for me it means I'm at the end of my rope, out of spoons, ready to burst, whichever metaphor you'd like to pick. Plus, add on to that I'd really like to actually work on my career some day and I'm super depressed. Hubs stayed home for a few hours to get the day started, which really helps, but I'm really dreading today. And tomorrow. It just never ends.

Marissa D · Feb 22, 2017

Ack, kiwilady--I'd go into full on Mama Bear mode...and consider calling the local school board and ask how they feel about this. Not okay!

KiwiLady · Feb 22, 2017

Thanks everyone. After the school's initial response I was beginning to wonder if it was just me that found this odd. I'm still waiting for a response from someone higher up about it all and if it's not what I want to hear, or at least a decent reason for why they've made the kids get changed in public (I'm not sure there is a decent reason, but trying to remain open-minded), then I'll take it further.

Hugs, JTR. Sick kids suck. And it's even worse when you're just itching for some time to spend on writing. Hopefully they'll be feeling better by tomorrow.

travelgal · Feb 22, 2017

jtrylch13 said:
Kev - Rejections suck, but I'm doing okay. I guess I need a lot more to make me feel depressed. Besides, there were tons of compliments on my voice, my writing, my world building, so I feel good about all that.

Kiwi - I am super pissed for you and your son. I would be a flaming momma bear at that school!

Home with sick kids today. I am not doing well. My heart condition causes chronic fatigue, which makes me less patient and able to handle children. And I'm not that great about it in the first place. This is 3rd day their home alone with me and 5th day since I've had some alone time. I realize this is not the end of the world, but for me it means I'm at the end of my rope, out of spoons, ready to burst, whichever metaphor you'd like to pick. Plus, add on to that I'd really like to actually work on my career some day and I'm super depressed. Hubs stayed home for a few hours to get the day started, which really helps, but I'm really dreading today. And tomorrow. It just never ends.

Hope the kids aren't too sick, but then, it's sick season. I don't know how you mothers do it, and on top of that, a heart condition. Hope reprieve come your way soon.

travelgal · Feb 22, 2017

KiwiLady said:
Thanks everyone. After the school's initial response I was beginning to wonder if it was just me that found this odd. I'm still waiting for a response from someone higher up about it all and if it's not what I want to hear, or at least a decent reason for why they've made the kids get changed in public (I'm not sure there is a decent reason, but trying to remain open-minded), then I'll take it further.

Hugs, JTR. Sick kids suck. And it's even worse when you're just itching for some time to spend on writing. Hopefully they'll be feeling better by tomorrow.

I bet the tail off Gandalf's horse other parents found this questionable. It's plain outrageous and humiliating, as if PE changing isn't mortifying enough.

JKRowley · Feb 22, 2017

KiwiLady, I am glad you said something. I am gobsmacked that anyone would find it acceptable for kids to change outside the changing room. That seems unusually cruel.

Big hugs, JTR, I hope they are easy on you. Sometimes it feels like the duties of motherhood are never ending, especially during sick season.

Zoombie · Feb 22, 2017

The only people I know who get more sick than parents at this time of year?

Lawyers.

It's cause lawyers spend their days at court houses - places where people have to arrive, whether they're sick or not.

Ugh.

I'm sending wellness mental rays at everyone. They won't do anything, but they make me feel less useless.

Ellaroni · Feb 23, 2017

KiwiLady: how odd to make the kids change outside. I assume it wasn't right outside any classroom windows, but still. We're pretty relaxed about nudity etc. in Scandinavia, but it's till important to respect the personal space of the kid. I have one kid who'll basically change anywhere and one who is timid about everything, so while the first one wouldn't think twice about a similar scenario here, the other one would be very stressed out and find phys ed problematic as a result.

Jtrylch: hugs! Mothering is hard, and exhaustion on top of that is super hard! More hugs! Also, sorry to hear about the Rs. Good to hear you are enthusiastic about new projects (and haven't given up on the old one).
Kevin: sorry about the Rs. You'll get there

jtrylch13 · Feb 23, 2017

Thanks for the support everyone! It actually turned out to be a really good day with them, and it did NOT start that way. My Kent Timothy either wakes up the sweetest angel on the planet or wakes up like satan himself. Seriously, it's awful. Luckily, the devil spawn progressed to his cuddly angelic form by 10am-ish. :tongue

Off to write more letters to my representatives and then work on something, not sure what. I want to start on my re-read, but with sickos home not sure I could give it the attention it requires. Hopefully Friday will be a kid-free day.

Parametric · Feb 23, 2017

I will never, ever create a YA UF this complicated again. I can't believe how many class scenes I'm having to write for my teenage characters at military magic school. I sure hope the characterisation and plot is enough fun to justify the amount of exposition being force-fed to the reader. Grumble.

JFitchett92 · Feb 23, 2017

@Para: Just get through it and if there's too much 'blah' in it, trim it down later. I used to worry that my world was too complicated, but actually it's pretty simple, so maybe yours will turn out the same.

Productivity is waining again, but then again my head is still everywhere. I keep having crazy, unrelated dreams and while I want to start up a dream journal and make a note of them, a lot of them I would rather forget. I have whited the text below so as not to give anyone else nightmares. I had one a couple of nights ago which really creeped me out. It wasn't even the main focus of the dream, just a passing event, but there was someone in the dream who was drinking/taking something that I knew was bad for him, and he knew it too, but he kept doing it anyway, saying that he 'wanted to because he liked it'. Whatever it was, it was causing his body to rust from the inside out. Next time I saw him, he was just a head with a pile of orange ash laid out in front of him where his body was...

Nightmares aside, my short is coming along. Might end up slightly longer than I first thought (is 10k too long for a short?) but I'm not completely disgusted with it so far, which is always good

Matt T. · Feb 23, 2017

JTR: Sorry to hear it’s off submission! Best of luck with any revisions or other projects. Let me know if you’re ever looking for a beta reader for a revised version.

Kiwi: Forcing people to change publicly sounds very strange to me… I can’t imagine a school just being okay with that.

I’m actually liking present tense more than I expected. However, I’m in this weird spot where I’ve been revising my WIP for so long (sometimes drastically) that I’m not sure if it’s good or not. Most of my concerns are whether certain parts are believable or too coincidental, and if the romance is too heavy-handed. Either way, I’m going to finish it up, set it aside, and then search for betas (perhaps through the Beta Project, if I can finish it in time

)

KiwiLady · Feb 23, 2017

Well, I finally got a reply from the school after chasing it again and reminding them he is a new student there this year and came in knowing no one and probably feels a little uncomfortable anyway. That was when they seemed to see my point. The students will now be offered the opportunity to change in the old gym, if they want to. But the did make sure they told me they think the outside area is secluded - I told them my son didn't see it that way! They have conceded that no child should feel embarrassed, so I guess I call it a win. I'm glad to get it sorted before the weekend. With my son going to a new school where none of his friends go, there's always the concern that he's going to tell me he doesn't want to go back there - he's not generally that type of kid and will roll with most things though, which is why I knew it was a major problem for him when he actually complained about this to me.

Matt - good on you for giving it a try. I've never written present tense...except when I'm reading a book in present then start trying to write - that's usually when the tenses go crazy in my head and I end up with a mix of both.

JFitchett - I'm impressed you can get any writing done with a new baby in the house! How is she doing?

kuwisdelu · Feb 23, 2017

KiwiLady said:
I just sent a grumpy email to my sons new school. He's been there four weeks and I hate being "that" parent, but he came home yesterday saying they had been made to get changed for PE outside yesterday as the class had been too noisy to use to changing rooms. For some kids, this probably wouldn't be a big deal, but my boy is very private and hates anyone seeing him getting changed. That coupled with the new environment equal an unhappy son. The school don't see it as punishment though - apparently it is an opportunity to get the boys behaving in an appropriate manner. They can't seem to understand that this is embarrassing for some kids. Not a happy mama!

KiwiLady said:
Well, I finally got a reply from the school after chasing it again and reminding them he is a new student there this year and came in knowing no one and probably feels a little uncomfortable anyway. That was when they seemed to see my point. The students will now be offered the opportunity to change in the old gym, if they want to. But the did make sure they told me they think the outside area is secluded - I told them my son didn't see it that way! They have conceded that no child should feel embarrassed, so I guess I call it a win. I'm glad to get it sorted before the weekend. With my son going to a new school where none of his friends go, there's always the concern that he's going to tell me he doesn't want to go back there - he's not generally that type of kid and will roll with most things though, which is why I knew it was a major problem for him when he actually complained about this to me.

Please feel free to remind the school they could also be physically endangering any of the kids who happen to be trans. They are putting trans children at risk.

JKRowley · Feb 23, 2017

Parametric, perhaps you need a Pope in the Pool!

http://howtowriteshop.loridevoti.co...in-the-pool-adding-fun-to-boring-information/

jtrylch13 · Feb 24, 2017

JFichett - Isn't being a writer fun when it comes to dreams?! I think we must have the worst nightmares of all people. On a side note, though that sounds horrifying it also sounded really interesting so maybe inspiration for writing? Also, any productivity with a baby in the house is monumental! I can't write a thing when I'm pregnant and new baby means jotting down notes and ideas, not any real writing. So awesome on you! (And all that baby stuff is past tense for me, in case I haven't made it clear am I forever done having children.

)

Kiwi - I am newly horrified at this incident just thinking about it. I just can't wrap my mind around it being appropriate in any way, shape, or form. And I agree with Kuwisdelu. Odds of being a trans student there may be small, but damn! They've gotta start thinking of this stuff! Not to mention all kinds of dysphoria kids might experience. You don't know what's in a kid's mind or mental make up or life experiences that could trigger something. This just seems wrong all around to me.

Starting my re-read today. Should be interesting as it's been months since I've touched this novel. Maybe even since July. I can't remember. It's dreary and rainy and I love these sorts of days to cuddle in a chair with a book and a cup of coffee. Should be fun!

I'm also debating running to the store simply to buy Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs that are out for Easter and indulge inappropriately on chocolatey goodness. My excuse is I need to go to the post office, but that could wait until I go pick up the kiddos from school. Pretty sure choco craving is going to win out. :evil

Matt T. · Feb 24, 2017

JKRowley said:
Parametric, perhaps you need a Pope in the Pool!

http://howtowriteshop.loridevoti.co...in-the-pool-adding-fun-to-boring-information/

That is excellent advice... I've unintentionally used this technique before, but never put much conscious thought into it. That will be helpful for getting through some of the backstory/exposition heavy parts of my WIP. Thanks for the link!

Zoombie · Feb 24, 2017

JKRowley said:
Parametric, perhaps you need a Pope in the Pool!

http://howtowriteshop.loridevoti.co...in-the-pool-adding-fun-to-boring-information/

I love Pool Pope-ing!

Which I never knew I was doing until I read that article, but I do it all the time.

"Old" People Writing for Teens V

jtrylch13

Has semi-colon; will use it!

KSavoie

KiwiLady

travelgal

jtrylch13

Has semi-colon; will use it!

ManInBlack

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

Marissa D

Scribe of the girls in the basement

KiwiLady

travelgal

travelgal

JKRowley

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Ellaroni

jtrylch13

Has semi-colon; will use it!

Parametric

JFitchett92

Matt T.

KiwiLady

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

JKRowley

jtrylch13

Has semi-colon; will use it!

Matt T.

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse