The SFF Writing Check-in Corner

During the edit, I found a plot hole. Took a long while to fill it up. Last night, I realized there is yet another.

I think I'll be heading in the 70/80k direction with my first novel. It's to be a trilogy if I go by the outline I came up with.. But in all honesty, it's the first time I have ever attempted something remotely like this and have no idea if my plans will fall to pieces.

Still a loooong way to go with only 8k in, though with work and children im hitting around 500 words a day at the moment which is better nothing I suppose

My life is editing at the moment - structurals last week, copyedits yesterday... oh I can't wait for my proofs to come back from the publisher so I get to read it yet *again*. [/sarcasm]

I struggle on. Today it's the alternative ending.

Hah, I should not have started reading the SYW thread. It is making me want to rewrite instead of write new addition. I already keep editing as I go, driving me nuts.

Such a newbie Q but how do you guys keep yourselves from editing when writing a first draft? Is it a waste of time or does it indeed help when the draft is done and you pull it out, minimising revising yourself?

Oh, and revising book 2, obviously...

Just published sequel to Almost Night: A Twilight Parody

Lunaty I have to do edits as I go, or I can't finish the book. Often times the first chapters have gone through dozens of revisions before the end of the book even gets written. Sometimes whole chapters are deleted and reworked because the characters decide they don't care what I want and are doing their own thing, and then I have to go back and make that thing plausible (damn you, characters!).

I'm another who edits as they write. Obsessively so. The book my agent is shopping right now started life 20 years ago as a 6.5K short, and I delivered it to my agent in June 2015 at 91K. Most of that was the agent egging me on over the last two years: 'More emotion! More setting! More nuance! Fill the plot gaps and cardboard transitions! More cowbell!'

Another exercise in revisions: I'm serializing an older fantasy novel of mine on Wattpad, by combining one clunky version with the completely stripped-down 25K words I subbed to Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction last year. (Finlay said it was interesting but too scant, so I know I'm on the right track now.) The new version has a better balance of action and worldbuilding, and shorter Wattpad-friendly chapters. I'm doing this as an experiment, and it only took me a couple of hours to refine the new first six chapters. Since it's around 130K, there will be a lot of short chapters.

kaysa said:

Lunaty I have to do edits as I go, or I can't finish the book. Often times the first chapters have gone through dozens of revisions before the end of the book even gets written. Sometimes whole chapters are deleted and reworked because the characters decide they don't care what I want and are doing their own thing, and then I have to go back and make that thing plausible (damn you, characters!).

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Okay, looks like I shall happily continue to edit as I go then

Filigree said:

I'm another who edits as they write. Obsessively so. The book my agent is shopping right now started life 20 years ago as a 6.5K short, and I delivered it to my agent in June 2015 at 91K. Most of that was the agent egging me on over the last two years: 'More emotion! More setting! More nuance! Fill the plot gaps and cardboard transitions! More cowbell!'

Another exercise in revisions: I'm serializing an older fantasy novel of mine on Wattpad, by combining one clunky version with the completely stripped-down 25K words I subbed to Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction last year. (Finlay said it was interesting but too scant, so I know I'm on the right track now.) The new version has a better balance of action and worldbuilding, and shorter Wattpad-friendly chapters. I'm doing this as an experiment, and it only took me a couple of hours to refine the new first six chapters. Since it's around 130K, there will be a lot of short chapters.

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Sounds awesome! I have got to say I do love a serial novel. Best way to start the morning on my way to work haha

One of the caveats I've learned from (25 years of) my mistakes and those of other writers: *never* publish chapters of an unfinished work-in-progress. Unless 1) you have the whole thing well-mapped out in advance, and 2) you are confident and competent about actually finishing the thing. I'm neither of those, even now. I have two fanfiction WIPs that will probably never be finished, and I see so many serial stories online that spin out of control or wither partway through. With my original serial, I may be doing some revisions, but at least the whole 130K is written.

Looks like my last post said I was going to work on the alternative ending. Hmmm. That didn't happen. Instead I worked on inserting a few boy-starts-to-fall-in-love scenes, which by-the-way didn't go well, and I forgot about the alternative ending. I've got a long To-Do list, things to look up, things to research, things to make sure I didn't say three or four times already . . . you know. So I've been struggling through that. Also troubles with internet have stolen too many hours of my precious time.

Lunaty said:

Hah, I should not have started reading the SYW thread. It is making me want to rewrite instead of write new addition. I already keep editing as I go, driving me nuts.

Such a newbie Q but how do you guys keep yourselves from editing when writing a first draft? Is it a waste of time or does it indeed help when the draft is done and you pull it out, minimising revising yourself?

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I edit as I go. I find it helps me keep steering in the right direction, and at the end of what I still call the first draft, I have a big job ahead, but not an overwhelming one. Having said that, it doesn't matter what I do, it matters what works for you, which is usually just doing what comes naturally.

Filigree said:

One of the caveats I've learned from (25 years of) my mistakes and those of other writers: *never* publish chapters of an unfinished work-in-progress. Unless 1) you have the whole thing well-mapped out in advance, and 2) you are confident and competent about actually finishing the thing. I'm neither of those, even now. I have two fanfiction WIPs that will probably never be finished, and I see so many serial stories online that spin out of control or wither partway through. With my original serial, I may be doing some revisions, but at least the whole 130K is written.

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So far I have followed 3. Clean Sweep, Sweep in Peace and Breaking Measures. The first 2 by well established authors and the last one self published. There was a third which unfortunately got retracted once Amazon started cracking down on any self published work that was being pirated from blogs etc. A true shame but totally understandable.

WriteMinded said:

Looks like my last post said I was going to work on the alternative ending. Hmmm. That didn't happen. Instead I worked on inserting a few boy-starts-to-fall-in-love scenes, which by-the-way didn't go well, and I forgot about the alternative ending. I've got a long To-Do list, things to look up, things to research, things to make sure I didn't say three or four times already . . . you know. So I've been struggling through that. Also troubles with internet have stolen too many hours of my precious time.

I edit as I go. I find it helps me keep steering in the right direction, and at the end of what I still call the first draft, I have a big job ahead, but not an overwhelming one. Having said that, it doesn't matter what I do, it matters what works for you, which is usually just doing what comes naturally.

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True enough. I will keep chipping away at it. Probably couldn't stop it, even if I wanted to
Though it helps that my macbook's backspace has decided to die on me. So this weekend I concentrated on writing new stuff instead of editing without it (I can tell you, it's a major PITA!).


I'm going to have to lay down a more detailed story arch as well. As I brainstorm these different elements, weaving them into one overall plot is looking less and less like a 'wing it' job and more of a 'better get my ass to note that down' part if I want it to come together like a perfect club sandwich.

Got to admit though that even though it's daunting, it is probably also my fave part to see the pieces merge together into this intricate puzzle.

I'm unfairly exhausted and frustrated. I want to write a story in Grimm Truths, but plots fail me. Working on either Devin or Alex feels like pushing a boulder up a mountain. I kind of want to take a break and work on fanfiction but the thing I want to write--guess what--plot fails me.

Also I'm dealing with this frustrating realization that I can write anything 30k or less and be done with it, because I can thoroughly outline and plan and break it down into sections and just write the damn thing. That was my experience with the four fanfics I wrote last term. But the novel-length stuff I hate by the time I'm done with it.

Hugs. I just said this in another thread...but I hate *everything* I write at some point or another. Usually by the midpoint. Because I hate it, I work harder to make it interesting or fun. Because I work harder, it generally turns out better than I'd expected. I learned to do this with massive art projects that took many days and stages to complete. If I didn't work, I didn't get paid. Brilliant incentive. With fiction, I push through with a couple of psych tricks.

1. Have a general idea of where I'm going, but be open to happy accidents and sudden inspiration. I have a brain wired for pattern matching and assigning meaning to random coincidence, so I get a lot of crossovers and foreshadowing I didn't first intend.

2. Once I have a road map, more or less, I only write by scenes and chapters, a bit at a time. I don't think about how big it has to be, or words-per-day, just story.

3. Mix it up. Sections of the novel I put on Wattpad were shorter novellas in themselves. I could have broken them up further, but I jammed them all into one big book. Tanith Lee, in her 30-year-old alternate history fantasy Cyrion, had a perfectly good 70K book made up of separate-but-linked short stories and one culminating novella.

4. I'm not required to love it every second, every day, every word. I am required to fearlessly slash and burn it down when it's not working, and rebuild it better...instead of making excuses for something I vaguely know is wrong.

They've all been in my hands too long. I still need to add like five scenes, rewrite the climax, and do a thorough editing pass on Devin before I can send it out to my next round of readers. And Alex is just... she's only been seen by me ever. Hoarding my writing is how it dies. I should probably start sending out the new version of Devin's book, and Alex's book, week-by-week to first readers. That's how I got through Devin's book in the first place.

G'day everyone! I'm new to AW, but a long time writer in meat-space. I write mostly fantasy, but it often involves fictional science to some degree.

Now my introduction is out the way... I have a problem.

My current WIP is a prequel novella to the series I've been working on for the past year, and it's called 'The Cherry Blossom Children'. It's about a family of teleports fighting the forces of Chaos from another world trying to take over Earth. The teleportation is comparable to Steven Gould's 'Jumper' series, except I call it 'Stepping'; instead of portals in the air around the person and whomever they're touching, it's more like the Incredible Hulk's leaps and bounds, visually speaking, only on a more stratospheric level; and my MC (who is a teleport, of course) can Step through time as well as space.

The problem is that I have started the story with just the one teleporting character - the matriarch of her future family of eight - and, well, I'm a very immediate writer. I always get complaints when I skip or gloss over any length of time greater than half a day. I don't know how to make sixteen years of mackin'-babbies and thirty-five of years raising them, believable in my style, while giving each child their chance in the spotlight, not overcrowding the story, keeping the main character (the mother) central, giving her various baby-daddies each a chance, and all the while fighting the good fight against evil doers everywhere (Chaos).

I've tried to be concise here but it's hard, I feel like this problem is massive, I've never felt incapable as a writer before (even when I was an incapable-writer). What I am asking for is suggestions on how I might go about fulfilling the above conditions in a timely fashion, providing a good narrative, and keeping some degree of my blow-after-blow style of writing.

Thank you for your time,

Tl;dr: Mommy-teleport needs to figure out how to save the world and have a family at the same time.

Hi Damoclian! Like Aggy said in the other thread where this is referenced, I can't tell what the main plot is. I think to start with, I'd worry less about working everyone's personal storyline in than the overall plot. Subplots and side stories are easier to fix, add, or cut later.

And I don't know who you're getting feedback from, but it's definitely okay to skip more than half a day when needed.

Hi Damoclian - I have to say, you're project does seem overwhelming. Maybe I should say massively overwhelming.

Why are you writing it? I'm sure this isn't the case, but the way you describe it, to me, it sounds like miles of backstory (hah, I guess that's what a prequel is ) that may not be interesting, a long explanation, not a novel. If you want to write it without skipping time, I don't think there is any way to cut it down. Maybe it should be a series?

Thank you all for the input, it helps, and means a lot!

WriteMinded said:

Hi Damoclian - I have to say, you're project does seem overwhelming. Maybe I should say massively overwhelming.

Why are you writing it? I'm sure this isn't the case, but the way you describe it, to me, it sounds like miles of backstory (hah, I guess that's what a prequel is ) that may not be interesting, a long explanation, not a novel. If your want to write it without skipping time, I don't think there is any way to cut it down. Maybe it should be a series?

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I think the best way to look at The Cherry Blossom Children, is to think of it more as a documentary, or even a third-person memoir of the Matriarch MC (whose name is Jose (hard 'J') Sakura), than a story driven by its plot. The really interesting and tragic stuff doesn't start happening to the family until the actual series it's a prequel to begins (around thirty five years after the time period I'm currently writing in for this book). This is a story I think is worth my time because I LOVE TELEPORTS!!! Just, so much! Also the first romance in this story is with a were-shark. If that doesn't sound even remotely cool or worth a few pages' reading to get to, we're going have to discuss our friendship

JJ Litke said:

And I don't know who you're getting feedback from, but it's definitely okay to skip more than half a day when needed.

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I've bitten the bullet in regards to skipping portions of time, not everything can be super interesting and worthy if narration. My question wasn't how to go about writing this story without skipping time, but how to skip time appropriately. I think the reason I got complaints was because I did a poor job of it, usually I don't skip time at all (except for sleeps, and fades-to-black) so I'm not exactly practiced at it.

Weresharks are cool.

Skipping time: I usually work some time reference into the narrative. However, my favorite — and IMO the clearest method — is the shout-it-out-up-front technique that I used in my first book. The last chapter started: Six months later . . .

Some folks don't like that. They say it is unwriterly or some damn thing. Myself, I appreciate it when I see it in a book. It immediately puts me in the right place without making me wade through a paragraph or two of BS. More recently, just yesterday in fact, I was editing a section of the wip where I said (probably not the exact words) The Lord Regent and his family spent the winter holed up in the fort, but now spring had arrived, as bright as the last few months had been dark. So there you have it. I went from fall to spring in one leap.

WriteMinded said:

Weresharks are cool.

Skipping time: I usually work some time reference into the narrative. However, my favorite — and IMO the clearest method — is the shout-it-out-up-front technique that I used in my first book. The last chapter started: Six months later . . .

Some folks don't like that. They say it is unwriterly or some damn thing. Myself, I appreciate it when I see it in a book. It immediately puts me in the right place without making me wade through a paragraph or two of BS. More recently, just yesterday in fact, I was editing a section of the wip where I said (probably not the exact words) The Lord Regent and his family spent the winter holed up in the fort, but now spring had arrived, as bright as the last few months had been dark. So there you have it. I went from fall to spring in one leap.

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Were-sharks are uber coolio! And not even just in a 'Sharkboy & Lavagirl' kinda way!

I love putting times and dates at the top of my chapters, I've done so in all six of the books in the series in my signature! In fact, it started out with a time and date and developed into a series from there. I agree with you on it being the clearest method, I hate having to figure things out, I read books because I doesn't require me to puzzle things out! It is most certainly not unwriterly to be upfront or forward in your writing, in fact, the only thing in all the world that's 'unwriterly' is NOT writing.

I must say, I admire the concise way in which you leap through the seasons in your WIP, that's very impressive! Where can I find out more about it, or any of your other works, for that matter?

Dunno much about were-sharks. Sorry.

However, I'm taking a break from my latest project - a post-apocalyptic fantasy novel - and hammering out a hard mil-sf short, along with another horror/paranormal novella. The PA/Fantasy novel is going to take a while, so I'm putting it on the back burner for a moment. These other stories are banging around inside me, wanting to get out. Plus I feel the need to get some new titles in the roster at Amazon.

I have finished two scenes. One with Slate and Dren Saeydrin, and one where Slate finds the remaining kidnappers and provides them with a proper endings.

I am really going to settle down and nail that ending. Today. Maybe tomorrow. By next week.

Damoclian said:

. . . I must say, I admire the concise way in which you leap through the seasons in your WIP, that's very impressive! Where can I find out more about it, or any of your other works, for that matter?

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My other works. Wow. That just makes me feel . . . all authory - Yes, it's OK to make up words.

So, let's see. You can find them lurking in my computer.

Oh hello, thread.

...ever have one of those days where you're trying to get from point A to interesting scene B for which path crossing C has to happen, but you just can't quite figure out how to get the paths to cross?