Too Many Characters

Yes

Saul Rothman said:

But I recently read a script with many characters. The kind that introduces everyone quickly then starts a worlds-will-collide MO. Something like Rat Race. I thought the writer did a great job handling the special circumstances, but I was in the minority. Many comments were "too many characters."

Thoughts?


Saulisa

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I agree, maybe is is because I read a lot of Sci/Fi - High fanatsy genre, but I am not bothered by a large cast of characters, as long as they are unique and fit the story. I am alos not bothered when reading by POV shifts as long as it flows with the story, in fact I like that little omniscient dip into a characters head every now and again. But that is another thing that is discouraged. I guess it depends on the reader, perhaps I am not the 'norm' for your typical reader so a story in the style I like would simply not be 'mass marketable'

Saul Rothman said:

Luckily, I have no emotional horse in this race. While I do have one script full of characters, it's an old one that I'm no longer emotionally tied to.

But sometimes I wonder if the comment "too many characters" gets thrown out a bit too easily. Doesn't it depend on the story? And how the characters are handled?

Consider things like Gosford Park and Downton Abbey.

Otoh, lol, while I enjoyed Gosford Park, I had a bit of trouble on first view with keeping all the characters straight. And I could see them! (Then again, they were mostly young, sandy-haired white guys with English accents, so...).

In fact, in my large-cast script, I tried to avoid the ID problem by making my characters very racially diverse, sometimes with accents. Of course, that meant fielding a whole new set of reader complaints, lol.

But I recently read a script with many characters. The kind that introduces everyone quickly then starts a worlds-will-collide MO. Something like Rat Race. I thought the writer did a great job handling the special circumstances, but I was in the minority. Many comments were "too many characters."

Thoughts?


Saulisa

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What's your writing goal? Revisiting old scripts for fun? If so, then have fun. If you're unsold, then writing a great new script with a handful of characters and locations will probably take you farther than a script with a large cast.

Saul Rothman said:

But does that mean that "too many characters" should be a knee jerk reaction when reading a script? Personally, I don't think so.

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Too many characters, if defined as such, is too many and therefore represents a script not at a professional level.

If you mean a lot of characters, that can be fine for a writing sample but not necessarily for a script you're trying to sell.

Saul Rothman said:

If defined as such? Defined by whom?

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By you. You're the one who used quotations and called it "too many characters." Too many is not the same as a lot, or zillions. Too many is too many.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my scenario. I'm talking about readers on sites like this, like Triggerstreet, like Project Green Light, like Zoetrope, etc. Do you think that such readers reflect industry standards?

No.

But does that mean that we should be kicking fellow writers who have an element or two that really works but falls outside the bubble?

Who's kicking anybody? Did I miss a post in here somewhere?

This thread is not about finding the best formula for a first-time writer. It's about not knee-jerking comments on writers who have created something good, though not standard

I really did miss something in this thread. Including the part where it's written that you can dictate what this thread must be about.

Have you created something good though not standard? I don't see it anywhere.

Trust me, I've read many scripts which sucked, and have been called a bitch by many writers.

Perhaps you need a new circle of friends?

I'll still read this thread for interesting answers, some of which might sway me. But so far, I'm more than ever convinced that unsold writers can be a cruel breed who have knee-jerk reactions and no sense of subtlety (unless the subtlety is in their own script).

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not an unsold writer. Not even close. And there are other pros here as well.

So who's the cruel unsold writer who responds with knee-reactions and no sense of subtlety? Perhaps you're describing yourself? -- I really don't know.

Good writers get to the bottom of a piece of criticism.

If someone says "too many characters," is it because they flipped through the script and saw lots of different character names?

Or is it because they read the script and found:

1) it was difficult to follow/confusing because of too many characters

2) undeveloped characters because a large dramatis personae can make it impossible to devote the kind of time each character needs

3) lack of tension because bouncing from character to character is distracting and can undermine suspense

4) boredom because some characters are far more interesting than others (or more active than others) and the scenes with dull characters fail to engage

5) Overwritten with plot and details to accommodate a large cast of characters.


If someone reads your script and says "too many characters," there's probably a reason he said it. Maybe it's one or more of the reasons listed above. Or one of many not listed above. A good writer is like a doctor. If a patient says he has a pain, the doctor must determine what's causing the pain. A writer must determine, in this particular case, why someone feels this script has too many characters.

Can a script have too many characters? Absolutely. If the script is written poorly and cannot successfully juggle its long list of characters and dramatically justify their existence.

Saul Rothman said:

Luckily, I have no emotional horse in this race. While I do have one script full of characters, it's an old one that I'm no longer emotionally tied to.

But sometimes I wonder if the comment "too many characters" gets thrown out a bit too easily. Doesn't it depend on the story? And how the characters are handled?

Consider things like Gosford Park and Downton Abbey.

Otoh, lol, while I enjoyed Gosford Park, I had a bit of trouble on first view with keeping all the characters straight. And I could see them! (Then again, they were mostly young, sandy-haired white guys with English accents, so...).

In fact, in my large-cast script, I tried to avoid the ID problem by making my characters very racially diverse, sometimes with accents. Of course, that meant fielding a whole new set of reader complaints, lol.

But I recently read a script with many characters. The kind that introduces everyone quickly then starts a worlds-will-collide MO. Something like Rat Race. I thought the writer did a great job handling the special circumstances, but I was in the minority. Many comments were "too many characters."

Thoughts?


Saulisa

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I think that any number of characters is too many characters if you have trouble telling them apart. I don't mean to be glib. I've read scripts with very few characters and I found myself constantly paging back and forth trying to remind myself of who was who because you simply couldn't tell even which of the two leading characters was which. They were completely interchangeable.

However many characters you have, the goal should be to make their identities distinct by making them distinctive characters. In order to do that, it's important to understand the difference, in dramatic terms, between character and "personality."

"Character" is defined by the *dramatic objective* that a particular character serves. That person exists within the landscape of the story for some reason. In real life, people are just sort of there, but with the exception of background characters, the characters in stories are there because you have created them and placed in that landscape to serve a particular dramatic purpose.

To advance the story in a particular way. To act as a mentor, or an obstacle, or to be an external representation of the Protagonist's internal struggle.

Inside, the Protagonist wants this, but he also wants that. So in the external realm of the story, you've got a character who embodies "this" and another character who also embodies "that."

And in stories with large casts, very often you have some complex moral issue, something to do with class, or duty, or whatever, where there may be any number of approaches, different ways to solve the problem -- and so you have a number of different tracks -- the theme externalized through a variety of different characters who are going to, in essence, "embody" the theme by tackling whatever that underlying moral question is, in different ways and thus illuminate the issue and whatever the final thematic outcome might be.

What makes characters clear and distinct, whether you've got three of them or twenty of them is, first and foremost, to understand why they are in the movie in the first place.

NMS

I have a large cast of characters in my novel, which I hope to translate to a script at some point. My main concern is keeping each voice unique, and making sure my reader (viewer) bonds with the right character(s). I know I might be shooting myself in the foot as a first time novelist by offering up such epic fare, but I'm hoping if the story is interesting enough that the fact I'm untested won't be an issue. I think when you have some reputation behind you, the rules can be bent more easily.

I say follow your heart with your script, and give it to other people to read. See if the story engages people. That's usually the best test.

Good luck.