Great Agent vs Great Cover

Channy · Nov 15, 2013

I wonder how often this comes up or if anyone else has thought of it.... As you get into the querying stage, and you ready your email account for the abuse you're about to put it through, and you scour the PublishersMarketplace... do you ever second guess yourself, looking at these agency websites thinking, "Oh it'd be a dream to be represented by Susie McAgentson...but the covers for their leading authors are so urgh...."

I know the author has no (limited, if any?) say in regards to the cover that will grace their book once it's published, but why do all these high end agencies have such sub-par, boring covers? I'm not going to throw any under the bus (although to prove my point, I can, if asked) but I think people know what I mean.

A lot of famous, best selling books have pretty bland, odd, generally lackluster covers. Sometimes, it's the smaller publish-house books that have a really eye-catching cover that would make one proud to put on the shelf. Sometimes, a book doesn't even get a revamped cover until it reaches the best sellers, NYT lists, and thus, deemed the extra effort to make it pretty.

I know we shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but as authors, don't we have at least a sliver of right? It's our work. It's our story. It should be presented in a way that makes us feel proud. Granted, I haven't found any cover reveal threads where people were horrified with the result, but could it be that the end finished product blinds the author of any negative thoughts they might have had about the cover? The "Oh my gosh it's finally here and finished and pretty and going to be released with my blood, sweat and tears" overwhelms the "Well, that's not the font, contrast, image, person I would I used, but..."?

I've sort of derailed myself, so I'll go back to the original question... have you ever second guessed yourself from querying/accepting rep someone specific if it meant that it wouldn't get you the cover you really wanted?

shadowwalker · Nov 15, 2013

Agents don't pick the covers. Publishers do.

kaitie · Nov 15, 2013

I won't go with a publisher who has unprofessional covers. That being said, if an agent's clients were all at publishers who put out crappy covers, it's not worth going to them, either. I can't imagine an amazing agent having clients published only by people who can't put together a decent cover.

There might be covers I'm not a big fan of, but as long as they're professional, I'm okay with that.

Old Hack · Nov 16, 2013

There's a big difference between covers I'm not fond of, and bad covers. Some huge sellers have covers I really dislike: but I'm very picky about what I like, and don't always like what works best for the biggest number of people.

Having said all that, agents have very little to do with the covers that end up on the books they sell, so this really shouldn't be part of your decision-making process when selecting which agents to apply to.

Marian Perera · Nov 16, 2013

Channy said:
It's our work. It's our story. It should be presented in a way that makes us feel proud. Granted, I haven't found any cover reveal threads where people were horrified with the result, but could it be that the end finished product blinds the author of any negative thoughts they might have had about the cover? The "Oh my gosh it's finally here and finished and pretty and going to be released with my blood, sweat and tears" overwhelms the "Well, that's not the font, contrast, image, person I would I used, but..."?

Oh, when I saw the cover of my first book, I was disappointed. It wasn't anything like the cherished image I had in mind.

But that cover got enough compliments that I soon realized it worked very well, even though it didn't mesh with what I had in mind. I've tried to adjust my expectations since then, because while it would be wonderful to have a cover I'm proud of, the most important thing for me is to have a cover that is competitive in the market. And if my tastes and the market's tastes don't line up, I'm going with the market's tastes.

slhuang · Nov 16, 2013

For me, the concern that my cover would get whitewashed (or oversexualized) was a factor in my decision to self-publish. It wasn't the biggest or the only factor, but it was definitely a factor.

(This is a big enough concern for me that it's something I'd ask an agent about getting written into a contract if I ever pursue trade publishing for my fiction. It's also something that I'd be prepared to make a stink about over social media if it ever happened to me. Whitewashing covers is pretty much a rage button for me.)

Setting that concern aside for a moment, if I were to pursue trade publishing, I don't think I'd worry too much about the covers looking bland or unprofessional. My experience has been that most commercially published work at least meets some minimum bar of professionality in terms of the production, and that's good enough for me. Would I like kick-ass cover art that tempts me to hang it on my wall and stare at it for hours? Sure, of course, but it wouldn't really bother me not to have that, as long as the final product looked well put-together.

Agents don't pick covers anyway, so it wouldn't impact where I submit to agents, but for the reasons stated if I were submitting direct to trade publishers it wouldn't impact me there, either -- unless I were looking at a small press that had atrocious, unprofessional covers. Then it would be a warning sign for me that that publisher doesn't know what it's doing. But if an otherwise-reputable publisher had covers that were professional but just weren't to my personal taste, I wouldn't care.

So to answer your question, yes, cover art is something that has influenced me in my publishing decisions, in this case towards self-publishing. But for different reasons from what you're considering.

Channy · Nov 16, 2013

I guess I used Agents rather than Publishers because Agent is the next step in getting to publisher (the usual way, anyway). They submit to a variety of publishers and I suppose it would depend on who's interested/willing to take it onto their line.

So then I suppose the next question becomes.. would you be wary of giving it to a certain publisher, even a highly reputable, big six, that, at times, had boring or uninteresting (not necessarily unprofessional) covers?

slhuang · Nov 16, 2013

Channy said:
So then I suppose the next question becomes.. would you be wary of giving it to a certain publisher, even a highly reputable, big six, that, at times, had boring or uninteresting (not necessarily unprofessional) covers?

No. (Not except for the reasons already stated that have helped push me toward self-publishing.) Boring or uninteresting covers don't bother me; I would trust the publisher to know the market.

Marian Perera · Nov 16, 2013

Channy said:
So then I suppose the next question becomes.. would you be wary of giving it to a certain publisher, even a highly reputable, big six, that, at times, had boring or uninteresting (not necessarily unprofessional) covers?

If I liked most of the publisher's covers and if I was happy with everything else, sure.

There's a website called the Cover Cafe. Each year, there's a contest for romance novel covers and one such category is the Worst Cover. And it seems every publisher turns out a few of those. I've seen covers from major publishers nominated, but I assume the authors wipe their tears away with royalty checks.

One of my favorites, though, was the cover which showed a heavily muscled naked man from the rear. That would have been fine except the man had long grey hair cascading down his back. One of the comments was, "It looks as though Gandalf took up bodybuilding."

Bolero · Nov 17, 2013

There was an interesting article in SFX magazine years ago where they wrote a synopsis of a non-existent book and asked three established cover artists to produce a cover painting. Utterly different results. One picked up on the sf elements and had a figure in space suit holding his helmet, planetary lander and barren landscape. A second picked up on the messianic element and had a dramatic, robed, intent figure with a long staff striding through the barren landscape and the third picked up on the cute fuzzy alien and did a cute fuzzy airbrushed picture. Each would appeal to a very different reader.

So it must be quite tough as a publisher, to pick the right cover "pitch".

I'd also comment that covers for the UK market and the US market are often quite different - so if a book comes out in both markets there are two sets of covers on the go.

Must go and look at Cover Cafe, sounds interesting (and entertaining).

Mr Flibble · Nov 17, 2013

Bolero said:
So it must be quite tough as a publisher, to pick the right cover "pitch".

It's something they spend a lot of time/thought on. Lots of meetings discussing what they're going for etc. My publisher did a series of blog posts on what goes into a cover (This blogger has given us a handy list of all the posts, from acquisition, via art department briefs, to final touches. There's even a video). I know it was one of the first things they talked to me about after I signed, their ideas for how they were going to look (several weeks before the books were even announced), so it's something hat is worked on for quite a while before the book comes out. I got very lucky IMO.

I'd also comment that covers for the UK market and the US market are often quite different - so if a book comes out in both markets there are two sets of covers on the go.

That's often the case, though I was lucky enough to get the same cover for both. There is often a very distinct difference (and perhaps because there are different expectations from readers? Not sure.)

Some pubs (Baen I'm looking at you) are known for less than stellar covers, but they still sell lots of books so I wouldn't turn them down because of it.

gingerwoman · Nov 28, 2013

Is it true that authors with the Big Five etc.. have no say at all in their cover art, or is that another one of those myths that go around. Samhain is kind of a big machine, but they let me have a great deal of in put into my cover art with a detailed cover art form to fill out.

Terie · Nov 28, 2013

gingerwoman said:
Is it true that authors with the Big Five etc.. have no say at all in their cover art, or is that another one of those myths that go around. Samhain is kind of a big machine, but they let me have a great deal of in put into my cover art with a detailed cover art form to fill out.

Yes, it's true. Even top-selling authors get little say. Doesn't mean they never listen to what an author says, but contractually, the publisher makes the final decision. This is because few authors know diddly squat about what makes an effective cover.

Old Hack · Nov 28, 2013

It's true that you're unlikely to get cover approval: but it's not necessarily true that you'll get no say on what your cover looks like.

Cathy C wrote a great post about how to get the cover you want: I'll go hunting for it.

Becky Black · Nov 29, 2013

It does put me off submitting to a publisher if all their covers are bad. Any one individual cover can be a dud, but if all of them look as if they were slapped together on a Friday afternoon after a long lunch at the pub then I worry about what else they skimp on.

As for judging an agent on it, well the agent doesn't have any control over the covers, but it could be an indication of the kind of publisher in general they are selling their client's books to.

With my publisher for my novels I fill in a detailed cover sheet and also list other covers from that publisher that I like. They commission excellent cover artists. On my last two I wasn't happy with a model they'd chosen, and in both cases they changed him. Before that the only thing that I'd asked to be changed was just a small detail that contradicted a bit in the book. (Probably nobody else would ever have noticed!

) I've always been happy with the final versions of the covers.

I've got a short out with another publisher and they let you go and look through the stock photo site they buy from to find images/models you like, which their artists can then turn into a cover. That was fun and I found a model that matched my main character nicely in my head and was pleased with the final result. But it's a bit of a risk too, relying on the author to be pretty savvy about what kind of images will work effectively for covers. I think they reserve the right to override the choice if they think it won't work though!

Mr Flibble · Nov 29, 2013

Terie said:
Yes, it's true. Even top-selling authors get little say. Doesn't mean they never listen to what an author says, but contractually, the publisher makes the final decision. This is because few authors know diddly squat about what makes an effective cover.

Word

If I hated a cover there might be some wiggle room, and they do want me to like it, but the final say is theirs.

BTW I've had a couple of covers under my other name I wasn't so keen on (one from Samhain as it happens), not bad covers, just ones I personally didn't favour. But they used them because they were right for the book/the readers they were aiming at. Funnily, one of the covers I didn't like sold best. So what do I know?

Channy · Nov 29, 2013

But you love the covers in your sig, right Mr Flibble? The more I think about my book and daydreaming of it on cover, I can't imagine having some sort of model.. I think that the characters are a bit outlandish to find/modify a model even with the right amount of photoshopping.. more of a ominous feeling, scene, object, closeup type cover..

Mr Flibble · Nov 29, 2013

Channy said:
But you love the covers in your sig, right Mr Flibble?

Oh hell yes! They are phenomenal, and all the work of the publisher/artist. I just said "that sounds cool" when they told me the idea for it, and then said OMFGTHAT'SWAYCOOL! when I saw them.

Pamvhv · Nov 30, 2013

I promise you if you hate your cover or it has issues like being white washed your agent will go to bat for you (if they're worth their salt). But rarely, even if it is something horrible like white washing can the agent or the author get the jacket changed. Because marketing makes those decisions and sometimes even the editor will go to bat and not get the covers changed. Sometimes the editor can.

But there's a huge difference in houses and covers and what is subjectively bad art. If these huge Susie McAgenterson agents have covers you subjectively dislike from the big six publishers then you're focusing on the wrong thing to figure out where to query. There are so many factors to consider and I think cover art should be at the very bottom of your list because it's never ever going to be how you want it unless you sacrifice a chicken at dawn during a waxing blood moon and appease the cover gods.

What you should be looking for are great sales and happy clients.

gingerwoman · Dec 1, 2013

Terie said:
Yes, it's true. Even top-selling authors get little say. Doesn't mean they never listen to what an author says, but contractually, the publisher makes the final decision. This is because few authors know diddly squat about what makes an effective cover.

Well I'm sure contractually Samhain makes the final decision on covers too, but we got to fill out a detailed cover art form including pictures and links. The cover concept was mine (two bare chested men with gorgeous abs with the heroine inside a magical snow-globe), but of course the artist did all the work. Actually my cover for Freyer's Bower was also my idea.

But back to the OPs original comments, with all due respect, I don't think it makes too much sense because an agent is not the one deciding on covers at all, and is just trying to get you the best deals with publishers who are the people making those decisions.

. I do tend to assume that marketing people know more than me about what is going to sell, so I happily accepted when they rewrote the blurb I wrote, and my editor was the one who asked for changes to the cover not me (it originally had a black background. )

gingerwoman · Dec 1, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
Word

BTW I've had a couple of covers under my other name I wasn't so keen on (one from Samhain as it happens),

I guess you didn't write for Samhain under the name Francis Knight.

alexaherself · Dec 1, 2013

Channy said:
the next question becomes.. would you be wary of giving it to a certain publisher, even a highly reputable, big six, that, at times, had boring or uninteresting (not necessarily unprofessional) covers?

No. It probably wouldn't matter all that much to me. In principle, it's something about which I need professional advice anyway: I'm a writer, not a cover designer. It seems unlikely that any "highly reputable" publisher is going to be known for "unprofessional covers".

In reality, I think there's probably a very big difference between "not having cover approval" and "not being listened to if you feel strongly about the cover", and the second is highly unlikely, with a professional publisher.

I don't instinctively think of this issue as relevant in any way to my choice of agent.

Polenth · Dec 1, 2013

Most covers at the big publishers are functional rather than amazing, which is fine with me. I can cope with functional as long as it sells books. What I don't want is whitewashing and the like, so my main concern for an agent is they understand those concerns and will be willing to tackle the publisher if it happens.

Even if the worst happens and the cover is terrible, it's the cover for that edition. It's not something that book has to use forever.

Beachgirl · Dec 1, 2013

My publisher is one of those that gets a lot of flack for their covers and often ends up on the "Worst List" over at the Cover Café. However, the covers represent their brand (a retro-Harlequin style) that their readers know and look for.

As far as I'm concerned, they can put whatever they want on the cover of my books as long as the sales are great.

Mr Flibble · Dec 1, 2013

gingerwoman said:
I guess you didn't write for Samhain under the name Francis Knight.

You would be correct.

Great Agent vs Great Cover

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