What Makes a Bad Poem Bad?

William Haskins

poet
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
29,114
Reaction score
8,867
Age
58
Website
www.poisonpen.net
we've all experienced being somewhat tongue-tied in talking about what works for us in good poetry.

but perhaps there's something, perhaps a lot, that can be learned from articulating and discussing what doesn't work.

so how about it? what are the pitfalls that can diminish a poem?
 

ddgryphon

King of Sloth Town
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
2,339
Reaction score
564
Location
in exile
Website
www.amazon.com
William Haskins said:
we've all experienced being somewhat tongue-tied in talking about what works for us in good poetry.

but perhaps there's something, perhaps a lot, that can be learned from articulating and discussing what doesn't work.

so how about it? what are the pitfalls that can diminish a poem?

Some outright poem killers for me are (in no particular order):

  • Poor scansion (even in free verse something can move in a clunky manner)
  • Lack of focus (not really having a focus for the poem, usually interpreted as "Not hanging together")
  • Plainess/Prosey (failing to twist the words and being too much like a piece of prose)
  • inaccurate rhyme, when rhyming is intended (fire/messiah does not rhyme unless you have a particular British accent and even then, no one in their right mind would accept it as good rhyming)
  • Failing to accurately use structure, when going for that (A sonnet that fails in rhyme scheme or scansion)
Those are the quick -- well this needs work.

Caveat: Even in poems exhibiting the above, there can be moments that work beautifully. I try to encourage the writer to focus on these and see how, what doesn't work, can be improved by basing it on this bit which they understand.

When it evidences the no-no's, and there is nothing redeemable, things get difficult for me. I like to encourage people to pursue their creative impulse, but I hate to encourage bad work.

Been a long day and I'm wiped. I hope no one takes this personally, these are general things that will turn me off immediately. I may be being less diplomatic than I like.

Look to the good and build on that.
 

brokenfingers

Walkin' That Road
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
6,072
Reaction score
4,324
Hmmm... a very interesting question and one that I suspect is going to have a wide assortment of responses since each person's enjoyment of a poem and what they like about it is so subjective.

For me there are a few things:

- It cannot be too vague. What I mean is that one of the things I value in a good poem is clarity. Not only must the image it presents be clear but also the fellings the author is trying to conver and the message the author is trying to impart upon the reader. The essence of the poem, if you will cannot be muddied. Like water, the clearer and purer - the better it will slake my thirst.

- Poor word choice. Using indefinite words, words that can be misconstrued, words that are uncommon and so disrupt the flow, or words that just don't fit - wrong words. The creation of a poem can be like the construction of an intricate jigsaw puzzle, where the pieces must fit just right in order for you to be able to view the finished piece in all its glory.

- Flat-out telling. Show don't tell applies to poetry as well. It's easy to say:

I love Jane so. Oh how i love Jane. She broke my heart. I hate life now.

But that's sterile. Poetry shows by example, by conjuring images that make the reader actually remember how it felt to lose their own Jane and hate the day.

- Complex or bad structure. This isn't really so sommon, but I can't get into it when the flow is uneven or disrupted. A long poem comprised of one word lines, for example, throws me out (unless very,very short and very, very sharp) or a poem with complex, staggered or erratic verses and sentences.

These are just a few of the things I think make for a bad poem - but like I said it's all very subjective and I'm interested in what others think also.

I'd like to add that I, myself, am guilty of many of the crimes I've listed but I look at it as a learning process.
 

kdnxdr

One of the most important people in the world
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
7,900
Reaction score
843
Location
near to Dogwood Missouri
Website
steadydrip.blogspot.com
Bad poetry to me is the poetry I don't like. Good poetry is the poetry I like.
It comes in all sizes, shapes and colors. Some keeps the rules, some breaks the rules. Poetry is food and if it tastes good, I eat it and if it doesn't taste good, I don't eat it.
 

Simon Woodhouse

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
322
Reaction score
30
Location
New Zealand
Website
www.simonwoodhouse.com
I'm no expert on poetry, but here's my opinion anyway.

When Princess Diana died, the local paper where I was living started printing poems about her sent in by the man on the street. Even though it was a sad time, we used to sit at work and just laugh at them.

I think teenage angst makes for very bad poetry. Also poems about dead pets are pretty awful.

Poetry is definitely best left to people who've thought about it a bit.
 

kdnxdr

One of the most important people in the world
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
7,900
Reaction score
843
Location
near to Dogwood Missouri
Website
steadydrip.blogspot.com
If you trace the history of sybolism, there are really some very basic urges that we as humans try to communicate. And, if poetry/language is the extension of sybolic progression, communicating the urges that express our humanity, then we are going to see some very primal images that can ususally be catagorized in a few basic groups, when it's all been anylized.

And, when we attempt to be transendent, and leave this earth and it's natural state, we touch briefly on something other than our self.

What really scares me is that I read recently that computers are the artists of the future and that their art is so going to exceed anything humans have ever produced that humanity's best will pale in comparison. Their art will be perfect. They are already producing. They will play instruments, sing, write stories, and write poetry around us. When they do, my question is this: what will they be expressing? Will they emote? Some think juiced up with a little chemical engineering, they will have feelings. So, thinking about that, I say let any human who dares to feel, feel and emmote, for tomorrow, you die.
 

trumancoyote

My Name is Sweet Thing
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
2,705
Reaction score
1,148
Location
Arizona
Website
www.janetismeantome.com
ddgryphon said:
(fire/messiah does not rhyme unless you have a particular British accent and even then, no one in their right mind would accept it as good rhyming.

I disagree. Imagine Jesse Jackson sayin' it.

Fye-ah! Muh-seye-ah!

Maaaah muh-seye-ah's on FYE-AH!
 

mkcbunny

Bufflehead
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
361
Location
Oakland, CA
I Don't Like #1:
Rambling poems that go nowhere
make me crazy for going
nowhere
when the poet has
already
said
that all of it
was going
nowhere.
Did I say nowhere?
Perhaps it was somewhere,
but somewhere was lost
in the nothingness
around it.

I Don't Like #2
Super sweet is super cute
Babies in their birthday suits
Oh, cuddly kitten, fluffy bunnies
Men and women, snuggling honeys
Too trite and cloying for my taste
Saccharine poems seem like waste
I'm also irked by ryming schemes
Except when humor is the theme

I Don't Like #3
your eyes sparkle like diamonds
your lips are red as a rose
you broke my heart
i'll never be the same
cliches make me insane

I Don't Like #4
A poem flows
Offering something of value
Invested, you relish the words
Then the last line sucks.
 
Last edited:

mkcbunny

Bufflehead
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
361
Location
Oakland, CA
I am very quick to judge. When it comes to poems posted for critique, I don't usually make comments when I think a piece isn't working. As I do not have a formal education in poetry, I never feel confident about identifying the problems or discussing those elements in a meaningful way. And if it's a matter of taste, then it's too subjective and unhelpful to comment.

I find it much easier to identify and explain things that I think are working.
 

poetinahat

say it loud
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
21,851
Reaction score
10,441
I've got to follow THAT?

10/10 for style and execution, mkc. Brilliant.

Pet peeves of mine:

the vestige

It might be that sparkling line that needs a poem built around it, but doesn't fit in this one. Perhaps the line was there first, and the poem went elsewhere in the building. But the line no longer belongs.

the rehash

Or, the poet goes on for one verse too long, maybe for the sake of even numbers or some other symmetry. Possibly the first verse recopied, with a "Yes, " tacked on at the beginning.

ye olde usage

Use of archaic terms and constructs in a modern context jars me: an unbidden ere or 'twas, just because they're poet-like words. Prithee, don't do it, Holmes.
 

mkcbunny

Bufflehead
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
361
Location
Oakland, CA
Those are fine peeves. I particularly love "ye olde usage," despite having used one of them recently. Couldn't stop myself!
Prithee, don't do it, Holmes.
Priceless.