Dead (possibly) desktop PC. - UPDATE: The video card did it.

I don't think I want to get knee-deep in hardware problems this evening, but here's one suggestion.

Look online for a manual for your particular computer if you don't have one handy (many will have a pdf file of the manual). It will probably have some troubleshooting tips. It will probably also explain how to remove the case (if you happen to have one of those that is tricky; and some of them are).

Always check and recheck connections first.

Could be a dead CMOS battery. See the article at http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000239.htm

I would definitely take it to your computer guy if none of those other plans work for you, Cliff. It sounds like the video card may have gone out in it.

Video cards can go out suddenly without warning. Sometimes though in heavy gaming pc's, there might be pixel stretching, overheating, or other issues that could be a sign.

Does the computer give any other beeps? Does it shut off by itself or do you have to switch it off after no video?

I had a similar issue and it was the mother board...just throwing that out there, since I thought it was the vid card at first.

"But the monitor (actually a TV) just keeps saying "No signal" and then powers itself back down"

What powers down? The computer or the monitor?

Try another monitor.
If it's not the monitor,it could be the video card, the boot drive,bad memory card(s), still be a power supply problem, or even corrupted Windows drivers, if you're running windows.

Your friend, the computer guy, should be able figure it out.

Good Luck! Hope it's not the motherboard.

Are you using an add-on graphics card, or the one built into the motherboard.

See the blue connector with three rows of pinholes in this motherboard?

See if you can get any output from that, if you're not using it. That may be a different connector than the one you're using now. The blue connector is called a VGA port. If you've got a cable to go with that, unplug your add-on video card, and try that. If you get something, it's the video card. If still nothing, probably the motherboard.

Cliff Face said:

CMN and Candy, I should've been clearer. The monitor powers off due to inactivity (energy saving protocol). The computer itself doesn't so much "power up" as just "the power button lights up and is thus receiving electricity, but the computer doesn't even attempt to boot up". And I checked the monitor with my old Nintendo 64 (on a different setting - AV instead of D-Sub) - and that all works fine. So it's not the TV monitor that's the problem. I have to manually hold in the power button to turn the computer back "off", even though it wasn't looking like it was "on" apart from the power button lighting up. No other beeps.

Click to expand...

Okay, I revoke my previous thought.

I recently had a computer that died just like this. Push the power button, lights come on, but no "sound" of anything working, no video, etc.

Really sounds like either your power supply or your motherboard is fried. I'd try replacing the power supply first since a dead psu can push enough energy to power-on lights but not other hardware. And they're easy and cheap enough to replace.

Cliff Face said:

Mmm, yes, I'm using a VGA port. Not sure where I'd find the add-on video card, to be honest... No idea what it would look like.

But... Wouldn't I need to use a VGA port to get video to the monitor, regardless of if I had an add-on video card or not? *confused*

Click to expand...

OK, if you're using that VGA port, then you probably don't have an add-on video card. Presumption on my part. Sorry.

This, then, points to your motherboard as the most likely culprit. You might be able to get by with buying a video card. They sell anywhere from US$40 up to several hundred. VGA is the oldest standard, so a card that allows you to run as you run now should be pretty cheap.

READ THE INSTRUCTIONS! If you buy the card. Some are very picky about the order of installation. Some want you to install the software before installing the card itself.

As for your question, at the consumer level, there are three types of connectors (and standards) for getting video from the PC to a monitor (or even a TV). Leaving out some older ones that are almost never seen anymore, and one or two for professional-grade graphics.

VGA is the oldest. There's another called DVI. The third is HDMI, which many monitors and computers are supporting these days. HDMI can actually send audio, as well as video. And DVI and HDMI have variants.

Cliff Face said:

AC: No can do. This isn't a store-bought computer, it's a cobbled-together custom build with parts of various ages. Basically, the tech guy sold me a basic computer in, like, 1999, and I've upgraded bits and pieces ever since.

I've been thinking about getting a new desktop anyway, as this one is *mostly* too old to really be any good (apart from a few parts) - but money is an issue.

Click to expand...

Is the motherboard from 1999? If so, be very careful to check that any components you replace are compatible. That's an ancient board in the computer world. There are several things that could be causing your problems. To isolate may be a process of elimination. Is the PC worth the time and investment?

ALL of my computers (and I have a whole herd of 'em, 27 in more or less working condition at last count) are rebuilt from whatever was handy or cobbled together from salvage (and largely of the same vintage as yours). That's not a problem; it's a virtue: It means any dead part can be replaced (and often upgraded) with some similar chunk of salvage. And the whole usually has far better quality, longevity, and repairability than you get from a namebrand system.

It's not the CMOS battery; when that's dead the system will power up, but may whine about having to relocate body parts on the fly, or won't remember the date and/or time. But after that, everything works (and if the machine is always on, you'll never know when/if it died; I've run 'em that way for years).

It's unlikely it's the hard disk, as usually that results in a specific complaint during bootup, to the effect that's it's Not Found or No Boot Device or No Operating System, something like that.

Since it's obeying the button-holding thing to turn on/off, I doubt it's the power supply or motherboard. Generally if the power supply is dying but not quite dead, it'll just flash the lights and immediately power off. (Or the magic smoke* gets out, and then it won't power on at all.) Same if the motherboard is toasted. Dead CPU or RAM (and they rarely die) usually won't even flash the lights, let alone power on anything.

Monitor coming on briefly, then powering back down, means it's not getting any video signal. Could be the cable, the port, the chip on the motherboard if it's onboard video, the video card if it's got a card. Loose cable end or loose port from the cable being moved around a lot will do this too (or, why you should use a "KVM" switching gadget, not unhook cables for multiple devices).

You could have a VGA port ON the motherboard (attached directly to it) OR it could be on a card in a slot (sticking up perpendicular to the motherboard), OR it could have BOTH (in which case, try the other port). If it's a dead port ON the motherboard, but nothing else wrong, sometimes you can bypass the problem by adding a VGA card -- in my experience this works about half the time. It may require a setting be changed in the BIOS setup, and sometimes it ignores the setting.

At this box's age, a "new" VGA card comes from the $5 salvage box at the local repair shop, and may even be an upgrade. (The one I'm using right now was found on the floor at the recycle yard!) Then you scrounge up drivers from the manufacturer's archive, Driverguide, or some forum.



* Computers run on smoke. When it gets out, they stop working.

The hard drive and memory would be marked with some kind of beeping sound from the BIOS. It runs a quick test on startup and beeps a code to point to the general area of failure. If you're not getting those "beep codes," then it is likely not the hard drive or memory.

The first thing I always do is take the panels off and get ALL the dust out of the connectors. I un-snap and re-plug everything. That knocks off any oxidation. I'm going to be doing this very, very soon because I've been getting a freezing screen lately.

Your situation, I would get a power supply first--try that. It's cheaper than a motherboard. Although I've had a motherboard go out on me too.

tri

Some good advice here. Here is some more...

If your monitor displays a No Signal msg, and powers itself down, then you are literally not sending anything from your computer to the monitor. This can be for any number of reasons, most of which has been mentioned. I'll get into this more in a minute.

I would like to address the idea of possible bad ram. A computer will power on, but not boot without RAM. Depending on the computer, and the level of damage the RAM has, this can produce this result. If you have 2 or more sticks of RAM, I recommend removing them, and replacing them 1 at a time to test them. This is an easy test, and many techs will do this as one of there initial test if they are uncertain of what is wrong.

Caveats -
1. Be sure to power down completely before removing any internal component. This means let the system power off, all fans are done spinning, and no less than 30 seconds have passed. I would even use the kill switch on the PSU (power supply) for extra paranoia. You might ask why the fans need to be stopped? Because there is a chance they will generate power while spinning.
2. RAM can only be placed into the slot one way. There is a notch on it, noting how it goes in. DO NOT force it into its slot. It might need a good push, but if it feels like it just isn't going in, check and make sure it is facing the right way.
3. Beware of static discharge. Anytime you are going inside a computer you need to be aware that the smallest discharge of static electricity can short out sensitive components. To avoid this, touch the outside of the case before touching anything inside, to ground out any built up charge. There are also anti-static wrist bands you can wear, but they aren't really needed (They're more for people that are going to be working inside computers for extended periods of time).

Other things...

You are facing one of the most vague problems a computer can give you. You will just have to start doing all the small things and see if that gets you anywhere. Here is the order I'd do it in...

1. Check all outer cables. Inspect them for obvious wear and for fit. In your case, likely only need to check the power cord and the cable to the monitor. Look at the ends on the cables, see if there is oxidation (rust) or other grime. If so, replace that cable.
2. Make sure cables are plugged into the correct plugs. I'm not sure from the thread if it was clear as to whether or not you have a video card, built in video, or both. If you have both, then plugging into the internal when you are using the card, could result in this issue, as the internal may have been disabled through BIOS settings.
3. Open up the case and power on. Check that all fans are in operation, ESPECIALLY the CPU cooler. If this fan is not turning, power down immediately. If this is the case, then likely your CPU is dead, possibly your mobo (motherboard) is also damaged. If this fan works but others do not, remove the defects, and replace.
4. If in fact you do have a video card, check if it has a fan (likely) and make sure it is in operation. If it is not, then likely your video card is dead, or not receiving power. Some cards require a power rail be plugged into them. Check that one is, and that it is not loose. If this is the case, you can even try a different rail, to see if possibly the current one is bad. Otherwise, the only only way to know if your card is bad is to swap it with one that works. Other possibilities here include a bad slot (where it plugs in), a bad mobo in general, or a PSU that is partially dead.
5. Look at the electronics themselves. You can actually do this at any time, I'm just listing it here. Mostly, you are looking for swelled up capacitors, the cylindrical objects all over the board. If you see swelled caps, then your board has suffered a surge.
6. PSU is possible, and there are testers available. However, these don't usually go out slightly. When they go, they go. Still, it's worth looking into.

Based on the age of your system, you have a few options.

1. Old parts are cheap. You might have to track them down. Check Craigslist, private repair shops, or your friends. I personally never throw away anything that still works. I probably ought to get rid of some...
2. If you replace your PSU, make sure it is large enough to handle whats in the computer. The one you have should be labeled. This will run you about 40 bucks or more, depending on the size. I do not recommend going with a used one, or a POS one. Use sites like newegg.com to read reviews before you buy.
3. It might be better to just get a new system. What do you use this system for? If you game on it, then that can be expensive. A basic system, probably about 350-400 bucks. Or you can try to make another Frankenstein.

triceretops said:

The first thing I always do is take the panels off and get ALL the dust out of the connectors. I un-snap and re-plug everything. That knocks off any oxidation. I'm going to be doing this very, very soon because I've been getting a freezing screen lately.

Click to expand...

I've learned when it's a random freeze and there aren't any bad capacitors on the motherboard (the other usual cause of such behavior) ... check the mouse cable. It can wear just inside the mouse case and short at that point, which freezes the computer. The freezes appear random because it happens subsequent to gods-know-which use of the mouse, and not necessarily immediately... and the slightest vibration can do it.

mysterymantis said:

. If you replace your PSU, make sure it is large enough to handle whats in the computer. The one you have should be labeled. This will run you about 40 bucks or more, depending on the size. I do not recommend going with a used one, or a POS one. Use sites like newegg.com to read reviews before you buy.

Click to expand...

The simple way to evaluate quality of a power supply is by weight (you don't need to know anything else). If it weighs less than 3 pounds, it's crap. (I've seen 'em as light as 12 ounces, and as heavy as just shy of 5 pounds.) Simple because heavy means good-sized capacitors, a large enough heatsink, thicker wiring (and more connectors) and heavier-duty parts all around, not made on the cheap. Basically, it boils down to Enermax, TOPower, PC Power & Cooling, and maybe a couple brands worth buying. I'll take a used Enermax or TOPower of unknown provenance over a new damnear anything-else.

If a system is old enough to need the AT style PSU and you can't scrounge one for free, or need more capacity, you can buy a brand new, high-quality, high-capacity PSU from TOPower for about $70. They still make 'em because there are still a lot of servers and special-use machines that can't be easily replaced, and are the old AT type. I just bought one a year ago for my old everyday box (replacing a TOPower PSU that got cooked by a near-direct-hit lightning strike, ending 15 years of 24/7 service). Other than being slightly heavier duty, the new one is indistinguishable from the old, inside and out -- no cheapening up over the years at this company!!

Or ask your friend if he's got a used card you could make do with for a while, cheap or free. Older or even middle-aged vidcards aren't worth much, and unless you're a gamer playing the latest and greatest, or doing serious video editing, anything that outputs an image will do.

BTW, the cheapest vidcard you can scrape up is better quality than the best onboard (on the motherboard) video.

What are you hoping to use the computer for, and why do you feel it's time to upgrade? That will help us advise you on the best route to take.