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Thread: Tirgearr Publishing

  1. #1
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    Tirgearr Publishing

    I don't know if a thread exists yet for them (apologies to the mods if one does). I found them profiled over on Love Romances Cafe. Anyone here work with them?

    http://www.tirgearrpublishing.com/

    From their website:

    Tirgearr Publishing is a small independently-owned digital-only publishing company of adult genre fiction.

    We offer full-circle services, working with authors on a one-on-one basis through editing and cover design states to ensure each book we publish is of the highest quality.

    Using our expertise from nearly twenty years in the publishing business, we work side-by-side with our authors to develop effective marketing plans and promotional programs, advising on career choices and forward career planning, and assist in setting up the author's overall image.

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  2. #2
    Shakespearean Fool DreamWeaver's Avatar
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    Full-circle services doesn't make much sense to me, but that's probably my technical mind equating it to a repeating cycle that ends back at the beginning and starts over. They seem to mean providing services throughout the publishing process (at least, that's how I'm interpreting this:
    Tirgearr Publishing offers full-circle services, working with authors on a one-on-one basis to ensure each book we publish is of the highest quality. We work side-by-side with our authors to develop effective marketing plans and promotional programs, advising on career choices and forward career planning, and assist in setting up the author's overall image.
    Is there such a thing as backward career planning? (See, there goes my technical mind again )
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  3. #3
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    They had a number of enthusiastic authors participating in a promo/excerpt day on Love Romances Cafe. They maintain a RomanceWiki page here. Their contract runs for 5 years, and they 'buy all rights'. Marketing seems weighted toward social media, but at least they mention they try to send review copies out pre-publication so they can get review quotes on covers.

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  4. #4
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin TirgearrPublishing's Avatar
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    Hey there,

    Thank you to those who joined us at Love Romances Cafe last Sunday, and thanks for starting a thread for us.

    To explain a bit more about us, we operate in an 'old school' way. We're pro-author and work with each of our authors to help them get established in the business. For debut authors, that means working from the ground up; some have not ventured beyond email and the word processor. For established authors, we're available if they feel they need a boost or are open to new ways of doing things.

    We have a fabulous team of editors who work more as critique partners than traditional editors. An editor will not just tell you what needs to be fixed in your book, he/she will show you how to fix it. They are less hand-holders and more instructors. Authors are totally involved in this process, both working together side-by-side to polish the story and get it rady for the public eye.

    Equally, authors work with a cover artist for the cover they want. We send out a cover art sheet which the author completes in detail. Authors usually have some idea what they want on their cover (some collect photos during the research process) and we try interpreting that from their sheet. Sometimes we end up with something completely different, but either way, the author is 100% satisfied with their cover art before it's made public.

    Additionally, we work with authors to put together an author kit, promotional materials, and sources of promotion for them to use on their end.

    We work with them in setting up their social media and internet presence, which may include a blog and/or website.

    We try guiding authors in a positive direction and encourage them to be an active participant in the selling of their book. After all, an author is a creator. Their creation is their book. Their book is a product and all products need effective marketing and promotions if they're going to sell. Not everyone is a natural salesperson. We teach authors how to sell their work. We encourage them the whole step of the way . . . and help the shy ones come out of their shells a bit more so they can promote their work.

    As an author myself, I know what authors want, so we try giving that to them whenever we can. We have a very positive contract with generous royalties. While we ask for five years for all rights, we find that's well within industry standards and allows both the author and us to develop a good working relationship. Anything more seems like a lifetime, and anything less isn't long enough to suit anyone's goals.

    We're a fairly transparent company and open to our authors to contact personally when they need to rather than having to go through some non-existent chain of command.

    I'm sure any of our authors would be happy to give references to anyone who contacted them. That's my hope anyway.

    I'm happy to answer any of your questions.

  5. #5
    Bemused Girl nkkingston's Avatar
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    The thing people are querying is why you're trumpeting the perfectly normal things a publisher* does to bring a book to market as something unusual. A good publisher with solid experience and a strong track record doesn't need to tell people that it does exactly what they'd expect it too: the end result tells them that. I know big publishers do less work with their authors on covers, but all of the epubs I've worked with have done with as you're suggesting (though it's not a great idea to let the author guide the process too heavily - writing and cover design are two completely different skill sets, and a lot of authors want covers that simply won't sell).

    What does concern me is all your talk of promotion refers to the author's role. It's the publisher's marketing strategy that sells the most books, that sets the baseline for authors to build on with their own efforts. Could you tell us what Tigearr does for it's authors in terms of promotion that they can't do themselves? Reviews, distribution, advertising...

    Also, all rights for a digital only press? You really take worldwide print rights, even though you're not using them? Audio rights? Film rights? Translation rights? A publisher should only take rights it intends to exploit, and should be able to show how it will exploit them on request.

    *A good publisher, that is, not a vanity pub or author mill or overzealous start-up. Not that bad publishers don't try and trumpet what they do as industry standard as well, but it's a little more obvious that it's not.

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  6. #6
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin TirgearrPublishing's Avatar
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    Thank you for your reply, your comments, and your queries.

    Let me start by saying I have more than twenty years in the publishing and retail businesses. When we decided to make the company a public company, it wasn't a decision made lightly or overnight. We do not consider ourselves 'a vanity pub or author mill or overzealous start-up.'

    To reply to your queries --

    -- why you're trumpeting the perfectly normal things a publisher* does to bring a book to market as something unusual . . .

    The unfortunate fact is that allowing the author to be well-involved in the production of their book is not the norm, nor is it normal for publishers to have a more personal hand in working with the author. I have worked with many authors and publishers in my career and I know this to be true. Some of our authors bemoan the lack of author support from their other publishers. Some publishers may offer similar services, but not all, and it's certainly not normal.

    Also, our authors do not heavily-guide the process in anyway, but want them to feel they have an active role in the final production of their work. After all, they've worked months, sometimes years, to creat their stories and we feel it's a cheat for them to blindly give it to a publisher and trust the final presentation goes well. We feel we have a good balance.

    -- ' . . . writing and cover design are two completely different skill sets, and a lot of authors want covers that simply won't sell . . .

    True, author expectation of their covers don't always work well. Authors usually have a vision in their head they dream about for when their book is published. They collect images from around the net or may keep a physical scrapbook. It's akin to wondering what your child will look like when it's born. We try interpreting author desires while at the same time offering them more realistic alternatives. Every cover that's gone out has been because the author is 100% happy with it.

    -- What does concern me is all your talk of promotion refers to the author's role. It's the publisher's marketing strategy that sells the most books, that sets the baseline for authors to build on with their own efforts. Could you tell us what Tigearr does for it's authors in terms of promotion that they can't do themselves? Reviews, distribution, advertising...

    Firstly, we feel it's a publishers reputation which will draw or shun submissions. If a publisher has a poor reputation, they won't get a lot of attention from authors. Publishers with the best reputations draw the best attention. We build on our reputation by offering good services and providing readers with great stories that are well-presented.

    Of course it's mainly the author's responsibility to promote their book(s). Authors need to have a strong role in telling people about it. If you put book sales into a retail context, a book is a product, just like a jar of face cream or a pair of shoes. The author is the creator and responsible for selling their product. Without authors being actively engaged in the promotion of their books, their books will remain on the cyber shelves gleaning coattail sales, if even that. It's a proven fact that authors who actively promote their work will have much higher sales than an author doing little or nothing and making virtually no royalties.

    What we do for our authors is teach them ways to effectively market and promote their books. We give them avenues to explore. We help them build an internet presence. And we have our own promotional program which runs in tandem. We feel we have a great launch day program, as well as social media outlets. While the author is in charge of most of their promotions, we'll also organize interviews, reviews, competitions, and other special events. We're always adding new programs and avenues for getting the word out there.

    As well, yes, building company reputation sells books, but we're also forward-thinking to times when authors may chose to leave us. Their name is the brand they're selling and will be the name that sells her books wherever she goes. Just as Nora Roberts sells books, not Berkley. Stephen King sells books, not Pocket. Dean Koontz sells, not Bantam. Debbie Macomber sells, not Ballentine. Certainly all these publishers have an established reputation, but it's come on the back of producing great books by great authors.

    -- Also, all rights for a digital only press? You really take worldwide print rights, even though you're not using them? Audio rights? Film rights? Translation rights? A publisher should only take rights it intends to exploit, and should be able to show how it will exploit them on request.

    Yes, we do take full rights. That's standard in the market. And while we're currently building our business on the basis of digital publishing, we will be printing in the near future, as well as audio. Just because it's not automatic from day one when the digital book is published does not mean it's not being 'exploited.' We have many irons in the fire which haven't been announced yet.

    I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

  7. #7
    Bemused Girl nkkingston's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply Tigearr wasn't on the level. It's just that when you feel the need to announce the way you do business as though it were unusual, instead of coming across as a publisher that is both friendly and professional, you end up with the same sales pitch as places like Tate and Publish America. That's not the first association you want either writers or readers to have when they read your website!

    It'd help if you were more specific about your twenty years of experience. What aspects of publishing is it in? Editing, marketing, acquisitions, sales, finance, HR... Specifics are good. A publisher that says "I have twenty years experience at Penguin, including as senior editor of the Viking Books imprint" is going to get a lot more positive attention than a publisher that just says "I have twenty years experience".

    We have a fabulous team of editors who work more as critique partners than traditional editors. An editor will not just tell you what needs to be fixed in your book, he/she will show you how to fix it. They are less hand-holders and more instructors. Authors are totally involved in this process, both working together side-by-side to polish the story and get it rady for the public eye.
    Firstly, I'd much rather have an editor than a critique partner when it comes to publication. I have critique partners, they're lovely, but they don't do for me what my editors do. Secondly, I can't see the difference between the process you're describing and my experience with editing at various publishers. Good editors ask, they don't tell, and the final decision is always with the author. Any publisher that doesn't respect that is a poor publisher, and you can bet a lot of them have been called out for it here.

    Of course it's mainly the author's responsibility to promote their book(s). Authors need to have a strong role in telling people about it. If you put book sales into a retail context, a book is a product, just like a jar of face cream or a pair of shoes. The author is the creator and responsible for selling their product. Without authors being actively engaged in the promotion of their books, their books will remain on the cyber shelves gleaning coattail sales, if even that. It's a proven fact that authors who actively promote their work will have much higher sales than an author doing little or nothing and making virtually no royalties.
    Your retail analogy is flawed on several levels. For a start, books don't sell like face cream. Now, say I made a lovely homemade organic face cream (or, bathmilk! Oats, milk powder, cocoa, nutmeg... Makes a great cheap christmas gift). Now, I could go to markets and sell it myself, take it door to door, run my own twitter campaigns, pay for my own advertising, etc. The face cream equivalent of self-publishing. I'd sell fewer jars, but I'd keep 100% of the profit. Or I could take my face cream to a beauty company and persuade them to sell it. They'd get it in stores, they'd advertise it, they'd put it where people can see it and they wouldn't even have to seek it out. In return, they'd take a cut of the profits. This is the trade publishing equivalent of face cream. Sure, I wouldn't get 100% of the money, but I'd sell thousands more units.

    And that's why people go to publishers, because they can do things that authors can't on their own. They can hire better cover artists, better editors. They can get the books into more stores, in front of more customers' eyes. They can get reviews in publications authors can't, they can get ads in publication authors can't, they can get the book noticed in ways authors can't.

    And if they can't, then authors should seriously ask themselves whether they're going to sell more books with a publisher, taking a cut, than they would on their own. Stephen King and Nora Roberts are brands in their own right, but that's because publishers made them so. They used their experience and marketing to make these authors household names. Notice how you can associate each writer with a specific publisher?

    (also notice how the fame of everyone you're listing predates social media. And how they're still more famous than recent authors who use social media to promote themselves)

    Yes, self-promotion helps. But it should be the difference between selling 5000 books or 5100, not 0 or 100.

    Also? It would be nice if you provided specific answers to most of our questions, rather than just C&Ping bits of your FAQ. We've read it.

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  8. #8
    On a small world west of wonder LindaJeanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkkingston View Post
    Also? It would be nice if you provided specific answers to most of our questions, rather than just C&Ping bits of your FAQ. We've read it.
    I'll admit, I'm getting darn tired of all the new start-up publishers coming here and saying "I have tons of experience! I wont give you any specifics -- my vague generalities should be enough to convince you I have LOTS! What do you need to know the specifics for, anyway?"

    TirgearrPublishing, if you were aware of the company you were keeping by not answering the experience question (and the fates of so many of the publishing companies introduced here in that manner), I suspect you might be more forthcoming.

    Even so-so experience with specifics is more reliable than vague assurances with no publisher names or job titles. Lack of specifics makes it look like you're dodging the question, and I doubt that's the impression you want to give.


    Edited to add: also, if you're curious why we're so inquisitive of new publishers, you might want to look at the threads for
    * Why publishers fail (sticked at the top of this forum)
    * Aspen Mountain Press
    * Iconic
    * Firefly and Wisp
    * Trestle Press

    All of which have to be seen to be believed.

    Or just go to the index sticky at the top of this forum and start taking a wander through the greyed out links -- those are small publishers that went under, often taking their author's work with them (bankruptcy court will often seize publishing contracts indefinitely, even if this violates the publishing contract itself.)

    Some of these started out with the best of intentions, and bit off more than they could chew. Others... not so much. But good intentions alone don't protect the author.
    Last edited by LindaJeanne; 08-10-2013 at 11:07 PM.
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  9. #9
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaJeanne View Post
    I'll admit, I'm getting darn tired of all the new start-up publishers coming here and saying "I have tons of experience! I wont give you any specifics -- my vague generalities should be enough to convince you I have LOTS! What do you need to know the specifics for, anyway?"
    Me too.

    I'm also tired of new publishers with unpronounceable names. It doesn't make them distinctive, just confusing.

  10. #10
    Bemused Girl nkkingston's Avatar
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    I've just noticed it's Tirgearr, not, as I was mentally pronouncing it, Tig-arrrh. Like a pirate tiger.

    (I think Pirate Tiger would be the name of my press, if I lived in an alternate dimension where I worked in publishing and had the experience and capital to start one)

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  11. #11
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin TirgearrPublishing's Avatar
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    NK,

    Apologies for my tardy reply. Publishing is a hectic business and we're currently publishing a book a week through the end of our publishing year, as well as some other projects. I'm currently working 12-15 horus a week, 6 and sometimes 7 days a week building this business with my partners. No rest for the wicked, and internet time that doesn't involve the business is at a premium.

    - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply Tigearr wasn't on the level. It's just that when you feel the need to announce the way you do business as though it were unusual, instead of coming across as a publisher that is both friendly and professional, you end up with the same sales pitch as places like Tate and Publish America. That's not the first association you want either writers or readers to have when they read your website!

    No need to apologize. We state what we're about and what we offer so that people know. Unfortunately, just because the info is available on our website doesn't mean anyone will read it. Prime example: Submission guidelines. About 1 in 100 actually send their submission as we request. What we want is clearly listed on the guidelines, yet people continually disregard and send what they want, how they want. So, if I over explain anything, it's in hopes people will read it in a message reply if they're not going to look at the site. I shouldn't have to do this, but this business is what it is.

    - It'd help if you were more specific about your twenty years of experience.

    15 years book reviewing
    10 years with RIO, including 2 2-year terms as president, 3 years with the annual RIO Award of Excellence, RIO newsletter executive editor
    5 years working in bookstores, including sales, stock, warehouse picking, bookkeeping, etc
    15 years working my way up from first reader, to editor
    15 years workign with established authors as a researcher and editor for their projects (see Deb Stover, Kristin Hardy, Michelle Hauf, Isabo Kelly, Charlene Raddon, etc)
    17 years writing travel articles
    3 years with one of the first digital publishers, Dreams Unlimited, as first reader and later as an editor and in acuisitions. DU published the likes of Sherrilyn Kenyon, Eileen Wilks, Lori Avocado, Linnea Sinclaire, Diana Gabaldon, Isabo Kelly, etc. before they hit the big time.
    2 years editing for Highland Press, including first reading and acuisitions.
    25 years customer services, including accounting, retail services, marketing, HR, etc.

    Obviously, many of these positions overlapped and don't include the years I ran my family's automotive business, which included some of these same acivities, including working in the back building big block motors ;-)

    - Firstly, I'd much rather have an editor than a critique partner when it comes to publication. I have critique partners, they're lovely, but they don't do for me what my editors do . . . Good editors ask, they don't tell, and the final decision is always with the author.

    Our editors do both editing and critiquing. And no, not all publishers give the final say to the author. Sad but true. Some of our own authors have complained about that with other publishers that they're with.

    - Your retail analogy is flawed on several levels. For a start, books don't sell like face cream.

    A product is a product is a product. Work 25 years in retail and you'll see that. Obviously we're talking different target audiences. It doesn't matter what the product is, there's a target audience for it. A good sales person can sell just about anything, regardless of the product. In my life, I've sold everything from dog food to tires to make up to books and all sorts in between. The basics include a product, a customer, a sales person who knows what the customer is looking for and supplies the product. Period.

    - And if they can't, then authors should seriously ask themselves whether they're going to sell more books with a publisher, taking a cut, than they would on their own. Stephen King and Nora Roberts are brands in their own right, but that's because publishers made them so.

    Back then, publishers handheld with their authors. Not so today. Small presses try, some succeed. Traditional houses, rarely unless they feel they have another Rowling on their hands. They're selective and exclusive and don't treat all of their authors the same. As well, we're talking 30+ years history with most of the brand names. Some have had movies made from their books, added to their fame. Fact is, 99.9% of small press, and even self publishing authors, will never see that kind of fame or fortune. And the only reason traditional press still handhold King and Roberts is because they're guaranteed money earners. You know the saying, follow the money.

    - It would be nice if you provided specific answers to most of our questions, rather than just C&Ping bits of your FAQ. We've read it.

    With all due respect, I don't C&P from my website. Thanks. And, ask me specific questions and I'll do my best to reply as I have time.

    We're a very open company. You're welcome to contact any of our authors to see how they feel about us rather than asking me and coming away dissatisfied. ;-)

  12. #12
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin TirgearrPublishing's Avatar
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    Old Hack,

    - I'm also tired of new publishers with unpronounceable names. It doesn't make them distinctive, just confusing.

    What's confusing about Tirgearr. It's pronounced like it's spelled -- Teer Gar.

    We're an Irish based company so we have an Irish based name.

  13. #13
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I am sure you realize that tirgearr has no obvious phonetic pronunciation in American English. And unlike Samhain and other Gaelic-derived publisher names you can't just look it up in a dictionary. It might help if the website gave the derivation and pronunciation.

    FWIW I was pronouncing it as Tir - geer
    Last edited by veinglory; 08-19-2013 at 02:51 AM.
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  14. #14
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Tirgearr, it would be very helpful if you would use the "quote" feature (if that's too difficult for you to make out, inverted commas would do), so that we could know if you were quoting people and not just commenting.

    [Note: I'm going to nest what I think is quoted from other people in quote-boxes, but if I get anything wrong do please point it out and I'll correct it.]

    Quote Originally Posted by TirgearrPublishing View Post
    Old Hack,

    - I'm also tired of new publishers with unpronounceable names. It doesn't make them distinctive, just confusing.
    What's confusing about Tirgearr. It's pronounced like it's spelled -- Teer Gar.

    We're an Irish based company so we have an Irish based name.
    It doesn't read as "Teer Gar" to me. It reads as "Terr Gear", but looks at first glance like a sort of pirate tiger, as someone else commented.

    You know how you want it to be pronounced. That doesn't mean it's obvious to anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by TirgearrPublishing View Post
    Apologies for my tardy reply. Publishing is a hectic business and we're currently publishing a book a week through the end of our publishing year, as well as some other projects. I'm currently working 12-15 horus a week,
    I'll assume you mean DAYs a week, rather than "horus [sic] a week".

    6 and sometimes 7 days a week building this business with my partners. No rest for the wicked, and internet time that doesn't involve the business is at a premium.

    - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply Tigearr wasn't on the level. It's just that when you feel the need to announce the way you do business as though it were unusual, instead of coming across as a publisher that is both friendly and professional, you end up with the same sales pitch as places like Tate and Publish America. That's not the first association you want either writers or readers to have when they read your website!
    No need to apologize. We state what we're about and what we offer so that people know. Unfortunately, just because the info is available on our website doesn't mean anyone will read it. Prime example: Submission guidelines. About 1 in 100 actually send their submission as we request. What we want is clearly listed on the guidelines, yet people continually disregard and send what they want, how they want. So, if I over explain anything, it's in hopes people will read it in a message reply if they're not going to look at the site. I shouldn't have to do this, but this business is what it is.
    Welcome to publishing.

    - It'd help if you were more specific about your twenty years of experience.
    15 years book reviewing
    Reviewing books is not the same as working in publishing.

    10 years with RIO, including 2 2-year terms as president, 3 years with the annual RIO Award of Excellence, RIO newsletter executive editor
    Could you please specify what RIO is? And were you taught there that terminal periods were no longer required?

    5 years working in bookstores, including sales, stock, warehouse picking, bookkeeping, etc
    That's closer to working in publishing than working as a book reviewer, but it's still not quite working in publishing. It does mean that you'll probably understand the importance of bookshop placement, and the difficulties involved in getting books on bookshop shelves, so that's good.

    15 years working my way up from first reader, to editor
    Where did you do this? And what genre were you working in?

    15 years workign with established authors as a researcher and editor for their projects (see Deb Stover, Kristin Hardy, Michelle Hauf, Isabo Kelly, Charlene Raddon, etc)
    Which publisher did you work for as an editor at this time? And if you were working as a freelance researcher and editor, what do you hope we'll work out from your "etc"?

    17 years writing travel articles
    Where were they published?

    3 years with one of the first digital publishers, Dreams Unlimited, as first reader and later as an editor and in acuisitions. DU published the likes of Sherrilyn Kenyon, Eileen Wilks, Lori Avocado, Linnea Sinclaire, Diana Gabaldon, Isabo Kelly, etc. before they hit the big time.
    From a brief search, it seems that Dreams Unlimited is a now-defunct (Calgary-based?) publisher. I have searched only briefly but can find no record of Diana Gabaldon ever publishing with them--perhaps I need to look more carefully. I've not checked the other writers you name, but perhaps you could give us some titles to match the names to make it easier for us to check this. Thanks.

    2 years editing for Highland Press, including first reading and acuisitions[sic].
    Would that be the same Highland Press that was the subject of a warning issued by Dear Author in 2008, for poor communication, review manipulation, and all sorts of other worrying things? We have a thread about them here. I note that Highland Press says on its website, "We offer our authors complete editing and cover art services". The wording there implies that it charges for those services. This is not how trade publishing works.

    25 years customer services, including accounting, retail services, marketing, HR, etc.
    The last time I looked accounting, retail services, marketing and HR were not part of customer services; nor were these services exclusive to publishing.

    Obviously, many of these positions overlapped and don't include the years I ran my family's automotive business, which included some of these same acivities, including working in the back building big block motors ;-)
    I used to work for my parents, at the holiday complex they owned and ran on the Isle of Wight. I have never counted that as any sort of work experience in publishing, and don't know why you're mentioning this part of your work experience here.

    - Firstly, I'd much rather have an editor than a critique partner when it comes to publication. I have critique partners, they're lovely, but they don't do for me what my editors do . . . Good editors ask, they don't tell, and the final decision is always with the author.
    Our editors do both editing and critiquing.
    To clarify, could you explain how you see the differences between editing and critiquing?

    And no, not all publishers give the final say to the author. Sad but true. Some of our own authors have complained about that with other publishers that they're with.
    It's true that not all publishers give the final say to the author. But the good ones do. Do you?

    - Your retail analogy is flawed on several levels. For a start, books don't sell like face cream.
    A product is a product is a product. Work 25 years in retail and you'll see that. Obviously we're talking different target audiences. It doesn't matter what the product is, there's a target audience for it. A good sales person can sell just about anything, regardless of the product. In my life, I've sold everything from dog food to tires to make up to books and all sorts in between. The basics include a product, a customer, a sales person who knows what the customer is looking for and supplies the product. Period.
    Have you "work[ed] 25 years in retail"? If so, does that mean that you've not spent that time working for publishers? The time-scale would imply that you were working in retail while also working for Dreams Unlimited and Highland Press, and doing all those other things you did; did you work at these publishers part-time, or have I misunderstood?

    - And if they can't, then authors should seriously ask themselves whether they're going to sell more books with a publisher, taking a cut, than they would on their own. Stephen King and Nora Roberts are brands in their own right, but that's because publishers made them so.
    Back then, publishers handheld with their authors. Not so today.
    Back when? The person you quoted there didn't specify a time; you're being disingenuous by implying they did.

    Small presses try, some succeed. Traditional houses, rarely unless they feel they have another Rowling on their hands. They're selective and exclusive and don't treat all of their authors the same.
    You're wandering way off-topic here. And you're implying that it's wrong for publishers to be "selective" or to treat their authors differently. Does Tirgear Publishing accept all submissions? If not, then it too is "selective".

    As well, we're talking 30+ years history with most of the brand names. Some have had movies made from their books, added to their fame. Fact is, 99.9% of small press, and even self publishing authors, will never see that kind of fame or fortune. And the only reason traditional press still handhold King and Roberts is because they're guaranteed money earners. You know the saying, follow the money.
    Again, you're off-topic. And you're responding to points which weren't made by the member you quoted, and ignoring the points that they did make. This only serves to confuse people, and it doesn't clarify or help.

    We're a very open company. You're welcome to contact any of our authors to see how they feel about us rather than asking me and coming away dissatisfied. ;-)
    I'm sure people will ask your authors for their opinions and experiences with or without your blessing; but thanks for the offer.

  15. #15
    On a small world west of wonder LindaJeanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TirgearrPublishing View Post
    10 years with RIO, including 2 2-year terms as president, 3 years with the annual RIO Award of Excellence, RIO newsletter executive editor
    I may be displaying my own ignorance here, but what is RIO?
    Last edited by LindaJeanne; 08-19-2013 at 01:46 AM. Reason: originally had a much longer post, but most of my questions were ninja'd by Old Hack :)
    "A story told, that can't be real / yet somehow must reflect the truth we feel..." -- Black Sabbath / Ronnie James Dio

  16. #16
    Pedaling Pescado Bicyclefish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TirgearrPublishing View Post
    15 years book reviewing
    10 years with RIO, including 2 2-year terms as president, 3 years with the annual RIO Award of Excellence, RIO newsletter executive editor
    5 years working in bookstores, including sales, stock, warehouse picking, bookkeeping, etc
    15 years working my way up from first reader, to editor
    15 years workign with established authors as a researcher and editor for their projects (see Deb Stover, Kristin Hardy, Michelle Hauf, Isabo Kelly, Charlene Raddon, etc)
    17 years writing travel articles
    3 years with one of the first digital publishers, Dreams Unlimited, as first reader and later as an editor and in acuisitions. DU published the likes of Sherrilyn Kenyon, Eileen Wilks, Lori Avocado, Linnea Sinclaire, Diana Gabaldon, Isabo Kelly, etc. before they hit the big time.
    2 years editing for Highland Press, including first reading and acuisitions.
    25 years customer services, including accounting, retail services, marketing, HR, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    Could you please specify what RIO is? And were you taught there that terminal periods were no longer required?
    Quote Originally Posted by LindaJeanne View Post
    I may be displaying my own ignorance here, but what is RIO?
    I think I found it. RIO may be Reviewers' International Organization which according to this website:

    ...works to provide readers with quality reviews, raise the profile of book reviewers, and to gain recognition for the service provided by reviewers to the publishing industry. Reviewers International Organization is comprised of experienced and new reviewers who do not engage in "slash and trash" reviews but do write exemplary, intelligent reviews about fiction and nonfiction works.

    ...The RIO Award of Excellence, formerly the Dorothy Parker Award of Excellence, is a special award given out each year to those authors whose works have excelled in their category(ies).

    This is a unique award in that each book is nominated and voted on by reviewers who are members of RIO.
    I can't find a dedicated website or more info elsewhere. It used to be the "Dorothy Parker Award of Excellence"; does that ring any bells?

    [EDIT1] I found a Blogger profile that doesn't tell me much more unfortunately and an old link on a writer's page to a rio-reviewers(dot)com that's been snagged by some Japanese site. Luckily, the Wayback Machine saved some of it.

    [EDIT2] While looking for more info on RIO I discovered the publisher representative may be one of their authors and CEO. Not sure how to feel about that.
    Last edited by Bicyclefish; 08-19-2013 at 03:38 AM.
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  17. #17
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Bicyclefish, thanks for that: it's cleared up several of my questions.

    RIO seems to me to be no more than a small group of book bloggers (I saw just thirteen of them, including Kemberlee of Tirgearr and the infamous Harriet Klausner), which operated for just a few years and failed to gain any real reputation during that time.

    The Tirgearr page you linked to states that

    In 2005. Kemberlee was invited to submit her short stories to Highland Press for the No Law Against Love charity anthology which was released in 2006 ... In 2009, Kemberlee was invited again by Highland Press to submit a novel-length book. A Piece of My Heart, was published by Highland Press in 2010, earning her the Coffee Time Romance Award.
    (The Coffee Time Romance Awards seem to be awarded to many of the books reviewed by the Coffee Time Romance bloggers. I've had a quick swing through the site and it's confusing to navigate. I found no comments on any of the reviews I looked at, much clunky writing, all sorts of problems with grammar and punctuation, and some free writing seminars on offer. I particularly liked the copy which advertised the Grammar Basics course, but as it's off-topic for this thread I'll not copy it here.)
    Constant Craving is the short story sequel to A Piece of My Heart, published with Tirgearr Publishing August 2010. Both of these stories are part of the Irish Pride series, all of which are set in Ireland. Rhythm of My Heart and Shape of My Heart are the next two books in the Irish Pride series and due for publication in 2012 by Tirgearr Publishing. Tirgearr Publishing is proud to have acquired Kemberlee's backlist for republication --
    Tutti-Frutti Blues and Dude Looks Like A Lady have recently undergone rewrites and extended into novelette length stories and are now included in the new Carmel Duet. Moondance and The Power of Love will follow suit before rerelease in 2012.
    So the CEO of Tirgearr is also published by Tirgearr, and was published by Highland Press too--a press which she claims to have worked for as an editor, and which has a worrying thread of its own here (I linked to it above). According to the Linkedin page Bicyclefish linked to, Kemberlee Shortland had no work experience within publishing prior to becoming the CEO of Tirgearr in the year 2000.

    She has, however, worked in the travel business and according to her LinkedIn page was the CEO for All Ireland Travel for fifteen years. On her author site she lists All Ireland Travel as one of her three publishers--the other two being Highland Press and Tirgearr.

    When I clicked through to All Ireland Travel's website then followed a link there to AIT's blog, the first blog post shown is this. It's an article which has been lifted from the BBC's website: to read it in its entirety one has to click through to the BBC site, but there are still nearly 200 words used on the AIT site. If you check at the bottom of the page, the article was posted on AIT's blog by Kemberlee.

    I've checked a few of the blog posts on that site and with a couple of exceptions they all contained articles and images taken from other sites, apparently with no original content. The exceptions appear to be press releases reproduced in full, like this post.

    While it's true that one has to click through to the original sites to read these pieces in their entirety, the amount used (apparently without permission from those parent sites) appears to me to be a violation of copyright.

    If AIT is Kemberlee's business (I think she started it after she moved to Ireland, but I can't remember where I read that) then it would appear she's a publisher who doesn't understand copyright law.

    If that's true, it means that Tirgearr Publishing is definitely one to avoid.

    Kemberlee, do you or AIT have explicit permission to use the material you've reproduced on the AIT blog? If not, why not? What is your understanding of copyright law, and why do you think it's appropriate for you to use someone else's material in this way?

  18. #18
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Any reviewers' club with Harriet Klausner as a member, well... just no. And using that as a qualification... likewise.
    Last edited by veinglory; 08-19-2013 at 06:52 PM.
    Emily Veinglory

  19. #19
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin TirgearrPublishing's Avatar
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    Well, it seems your lynch mob has everything sewn up nicely. I don't feel this is a positive environment for anyone to participate in. I joined this thread as it was about our company and hoped to offer some insight and encouragement to authors. I am not prepared to have my or my company's integrity ripped to shreds by a bunch of people who don't seem to have an ounce of respect for those who chose to publish via more traditinal methods. We're a very open and honest company. If any of you feel that we're not, I'm sorry. I'm not willing to waste my valuable time being put into this disgusting position.

    If you wish to engage in some mature dialogue, I'm happy to speak with you. But I will not spend any more time being subject to this nonsense.

    Seems to me that you would all do better with your time in promoting your work and getting your sales up rather than trying to beat down people who may be successful in their own endeavors. We don't have to agree, but it would be nice if we all got along.

    Bíodh an lá go deas, agus is féidir leis an ghrian solais i gcónaí do ghoirt.

  20. #20
    practical experience, FTW the bunny hugger's Avatar
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    If you consider anything raised in this thread to be inaccurate I suggest reporting that post. IMHO nobody at any point suggested your press is dishonest. If all we had to do is divide presses into the categories of dishonest versus wonderful my life as a writer would be a lot easier.

  21. #21
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin TirgearrPublishing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the bunny hugger View Post
    If you consider anything raised in this thread to be inaccurate I suggest reporting that post. IMHO nobody at any point suggested your press is dishonest. If all we had to do is divide presses into the categories of dishonest versus wonderful my life as a writer would be a lot easier.
    I'm more than happy to have an adult conversation with anyone who wants to learn more about our company and small press publishing.

    I am not happy to be the whipping post for people who want the rundown of my life by second, minute, hour, diploma and degree.

    Had hoped for some mature and positive discourse. I still live in hope.

  22. #22
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Then why not engage with the specific points being raised in this thread. What a publisher is and does is just a matter of fact that can be established. What people think of those qualities is a matter of opinion and everyone has their own. No business is beloved by every person on an emotional level.
    Emily Veinglory

  23. #23
    banned as an incurable tosspot
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    If a publisher has violated copyright, that is a relevant criterion for measuring the professionalism of said publisher, is it not?

    Can you respond to Old Hack's question?

    Let's assume for a moment that I'm a golden-mint author with a piece of work that you just *know* is going to sell. Why would I not look at your professional activities *as well as* your credentials in deciding whether my work should go to you or not?

  24. #24
    Mushroom Polenth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TirgearrPublishing View Post
    Well, it seems your lynch mob has everything sewn up nicely.
    Quote Originally Posted by TirgearrPublishing View Post
    I'm more than happy to have an adult conversation with anyone who wants to learn more about our company and small press publishing.

    I am not happy to be the whipping post for people who want the rundown of my life by second, minute, hour, diploma and degree.

    Had hoped for some mature and positive discourse. I still live in hope.
    A start for mature conversation is not to compare people who aren't impressed with your credentials to racists who kidnap, torture and kill people with brown skin. Your situation isn't close to that horror. There's nothing anyone could say in this thread that would be close to the reality of lynch mobs.

    Experience can be gained, especially if you're willing to listen when people point out your weak areas. But all the while you're likening people with criticisms to mass murderers and torturers, you're not in a place where you can learn. And that's an issue for a new publisher.
    * Polenth *

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  25. #25
    Shakespearean Fool DreamWeaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TirgearrPublishing View Post
    Well, it seems your lynch mob has everything sewn up nicely. I don't feel this is a positive environment for anyone to participate in. I joined this thread as it was about our company and hoped to offer some insight and encouragement to authors. I am not prepared to have my or my company's integrity ripped to shreds by a bunch of people who don't seem to have an ounce of respect for those who chose to publish via more traditinal methods. We're a very open and honest company. If any of you feel that we're not, I'm sorry. I'm not willing to waste my valuable time being put into this disgusting position.

    If you wish to engage in some mature dialogue, I'm happy to speak with you. But I will not spend any more time being subject to this nonsense.

    Seems to me that you would all do better with your time in promoting your work and getting your sales up rather than trying to beat down people who may be successful in their own endeavors. We don't have to agree, but it would be nice if we all got along.

    Bíodh an lá go deas, agus is féidir leis an ghrian solais i gcónaí do ghoirt.
    Babblefish gave me "Have a nice day" for the first part of that last sentence, but was pretty garbled on the second, as so often happens with translation software. Something about fields and sunshine, that sounded like a proverb. I am always curious about other languages. Would you mind translating?
    Last edited by DreamWeaver; 08-20-2013 at 02:35 AM.
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