A question about wooing a literary agent,

1. I'd edit the op; I have a pretty off sense of humor, but the "stalking agents" actually hits really, ridiculously close to home....you're gonna get the wrong soret of attention in this thread.

2. I'd put the query up in QLH. Especially if most of what you are collecting is form rejections, without materials requested, I am going to hazard the guess you have issues in there. Yes, you had 20 friends look at it, I'd still toss it up here.....and i still have serious reservations on it. Those 20 querying recently?

you have to hit 50 posts, but....that isn't hard to do participating in the QLH subforum, and I really, REALLY believe you will get an eye-opener. I'm already going to hazard the guess you spend as much time being cute and/or selling your old books as detaqiling your current one, and I could obviously be wrong, but...I'd toss it up here and see....

quick

edit: yes, i am aware you asked questions, and I didn't really answer any of then. But without seeing the query, it is hard to--mention prior pubs? probably. Tell us about why you stopped, in soul-crushing detail? No. Somewhere in between? Maybe. That is why i'm suggesting you post--right now this is like asking "I made coffee, is it too strong?" We'd need to get closer.

I second putting the query up in QLH when you hit fifty posts. Before then, definitely go there to read and critique some. While I don't doubt your friends are helpful, they may not be up on the current trends in querying.

I can't see how your publishing history in romance would prejudice agents against you. You demonstrate that you can sell your writing. That's important. But I don't always know what I'm talking about, so someone who is an actual expert will weigh in.

save both, you may feel less generous when you hit 50 posts ;-)

Dittoing everyone about getting your query critiqued on the boards.

Also, the stigma against romance is much, much less pronounced with publishing professionals. Most editors and agents know that it's a damn hard genre to write and sell successfully, so I would absolutely not recommend leaving out your credits.

Good luck

I wonder if agents might be more driven to the next big thing, and having a bunch of credits from almost 20 years ago isn't really going to make them too excited. Ageism, in other words, even if unintentional. But as you said the letter did get a request for a partial so it obviously didn't put everyone off... My worry would not be the genre, but that society seems much keener to worship young people these days and makes far more of a fuss about, say, "the best writers under 35" than anyone else. Perhaps the thing to do is to try some queries where you leave it off and see if it makes any difference? Do a JK, in other words.

Coupland said:

I wonder if agents might be more driven to the next big thing, and having a bunch of credits from almost 20 years ago isn't really going to make them too excited. Ageism, in other words, even if unintentional. .

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not buying this.

an agent's main concern isn't if you have to use just for men, it is if you can write.

They MAY wonder why you sat 20 yrs, but age isn't gonna mean they see a good story and go "no way, you're too fucking old, off on your motorized cart you go!" and toss it.

I was going to say that I doubt your publishing history is working against you, but then I thought of a way in which it might (although I probably wouldn't drop the credits, just take care of the issue in other ways).

A number of agents don't represent category romances (as I'm sure you know), and will specifically say so in their "what we represent" descriptions. It's not ENTIRELY because they don't want to deal with the often fairly small advances; it can also be because they're just not the stories that agent can get enthusiastic about (just as they might not be enthusiastic about any other particular genre, not a slam against romance or category romance). Add to that the comment I've heard a number of times that there's a different pace or feel or voice or something to category romance versus single-title romance. (Not better or worse, just different.) And I've heard agents and editors comment that single-title is not just a longer category romance, and category romance is not just a shorter single-title romance. There's a difference, even if it's impossible to describe beyond "I know it when I see it."

What I'm getting at is that perhaps the substance of your query is saying to the agent (however unintentionally): "I've written this category romance, but it's longer and has some women's fiction subplots, so I'm marketing it as single-title women's fiction." And then the publishing credits are the final nail on that coffin. And the agent doesn't rep category romance, so it's a form rejection. In other words: regardless of what you're labeling it, the agent is seeing it as category romance.

Or not. Just guessing, since we're not actually privy to the query itself (yet). But consider whether that's possible. Are you pitching a story that has the depth and breadth necessary for single title, or are you still writing category-style? (I say this as someone who aspired to write category romance, but just didn't have the skill for it.) I remember when Lisa Gardner made the switch from category romance to single title, she spent about two years rewriting her first single-title book even after it was under contract for big bucks, because, as she said, her editor kept kicking it back to her, saying, in essence, that it was too category, not single-title enough. She had to learn completely new storytelling skills.

So, maybe consider that until you get your 50 posts in, and you can get some feedback on the actual query.

Definitely keep the credits in there.

Don't play them down in any way. Even saying something like "I've written this, this, and this - but I'm not writing that anymore!" creates negative connotations.

List them, be proud of them, but don't try and link them to your new book and don't try and detach yourself from them.

Simply pitch your book, then at the bottom say I've sold X Y and Z. Thank you very much, yours sincerely...

MJRevell said:

Definitely keep the credits in there.

Don't play them down in any way. Even saying something like "I've written this, this, and this - but I'm not writing that anymore!" creates negative connotations.

List them, be proud of them, but don't try and link them to your new book and don't try and detach yourself from them.

Simply pitch your book, then at the bottom say I've sold X Y and Z. Thank you very much, yours sincerely...

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Seconded.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Congrats and best of luck!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

ChocolateChipCookie said:

On a side note this morning I got a request for a full, but boy am I glad I've spent time reading here at AW and have learned that offers of representation don't come that often or that easily. So, to keep my sanity, I sent out three more queries.

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Best of luck with the full, and yeah, always a good idea to have more baited hooks in the pond.

I am sure ageism is not a big thing, but equally if you said "I'm sixteen and here's my (as good as a 50 year old's) query" you bet there's more chance of being snapped up. But then if you said "I'm a famous celebrity / offspring of a famous celebrity" you know that's going to help too. Someone should do a study sending the same book proposal to agents and altering the age/sex/race/etc. as has been done for various jobs e.g. reported here: http://myweb.liu.edu/~uroy/web/Labor/Discrimnn/black-jobs-ABK.htm

Coupland said:

I am sure ageism is not a big thing, but equally if you said "I'm sixteen and here's my (as good as a 50 year old's) query" you bet there's more chance of being snapped up. But then if you said "I'm a famous celebrity / offspring of a famous celebrity" you know that's going to help too.

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I have seen absolutely zero evidence that being a younger writer gives you an easier ride in the publishing game. Sure, teen writers get book deals, but these are books with good, commercial concepts.

In fact, some editors prepare for the worst as soon as they see a teen submission.

I strongly suspect that if you changed your age in a query to say you were sixteen, the only change would be your rejections would be more kindly worded. Agents generally don't like to discourage new writers, and they're particularly cautious around teen writers because they're considered more easily discouraged.

Someone should do a study sending the same book proposal to agents and altering the age/sex/race/etc. as has been done for various jobs e.g. reported here: http://myweb.liu.edu/~uroy/web/Labor/Discrimnn/black-jobs-ABK.htm

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I don't even know where to start with the suggestion that changing your gender or race would change you acceptance stats...

Agents don't care about your age/race/gender, and apart from your name this information shouldn't even be in your query. They're looking for a good book.

Emaree, perhaps you should start with this interview with literary agent Victoria Sanders hosted on this very site: http://www.absolutewrite.com/novels/victoria_sanders.htm

"Q:How is the racism of the publishing world similar to or different from the rest of the institutions in the U.S.?

A: I think it is more or less the same. I think the manifestations of racism, sexism, and homophobia are similar to what you would see in other institutions. Publishing can be more liberal, but also more insular, than other institutions, so it probably comes out about the same. I do think that white people in publishing (myself included) like to think of ourselves as different and more active about combating racism, sexism, and homophobia. However, I also think that any Black, female, or gay person (myself included) would tell you that we have a very long way to go..."

There are also studies done to show the male bias over females in writing, e.g. here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2011/02/women_at_work.html

"VIDA's study raises questions about how seriously women writers are taken and how viable it is for them to make a living at writing."

It may seem like it doesn't / shouldn't happen, but a lot of bias is unconscious. This is all getting dangerously off topic, but related regarding query letter success and how much of your personal information you should or should not give away. You are right - the information shouldn't be on the query letter for this very reason, but if you talk about publishing success in the 1990s then your age is on there (in a roundabout way). My suggestion was simply to try changing things up if having issues, whether it be related to genre prejudice, age prejudice, race prejudice, sex prejudice, or any, or all of the above. Sad thing is, they all exist.

Coupland said:

Emaree, perhaps you should start with this interview with literary agent Victoria Sanders hosted on this very site: http://www.absolutewrite.com/novels/victoria_sanders.htm

"Q:How is the racism of the publishing world similar to or different from the rest of the institutions in the U.S.?

A: I think it is more or less the same. I think the manifestations of racism, sexism, and homophobia are similar to what you would see in other institutions. Publishing can be more liberal, but also more insular, than other institutions, so it probably comes out about the same. I do think that white people in publishing (myself included) like to think of ourselves as different and more active about combating racism, sexism, and homophobia. However, I also think that any Black, female, or gay person (myself included) would tell you that we have a very long way to go..."

There are also studies done to show the male bias over females in writing, e.g. here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2011/02/women_at_work.html

"VIDA's study raises questions about how seriously women writers are taken and how viable it is for them to make a living at writing."

It may seem like it doesn't / shouldn't happen, but a lot of bias is unconscious. This is all getting dangerously off topic, but related regarding query letter success and how much of your personal information you should or should not give away. You are right - the information shouldn't be on the query letter for this very reason, but if you talk about publishing success in the 1990s then your age is on there (in a roundabout way). My suggestion was simply to try changing things up if having issues, whether it be related to genre prejudice, age prejudice, race prejudice, sex prejudice, or any, or all of the above. Sad thing is, they all exist.

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Thanks for the link. I don't think Ms Sanders and I have different opinions here -- she's talking about publishing as a whole, I'm talking about querying specifically. I don't think agents are much thought to age, race or gender when they're skimming the query pile or checking out opening pages.

I work in an industry where discrimination is still a huge issue, so I'm very familiar with unconscious prejudice. And we're all well aware that there are areas of publishing where it's rife (to name a few: male writers getting more respect/plaudits in YA, ladies having trouble getting into sci-fi, and the recent SFWA issues) but I'm not convinced discrimination happens at the querying stage.

Agents seem to be focussed entirely on the craft at this stage: strength of plot concept, skill of query and first pages etc.

A lot of agents, if interested, are going to Google you, so if your Romance books were published in your name, they would probably pop up. If I were an agent, I'd rather learn of your previous books from the author, not Google.

I think a lot of authors change their genres at some point in their career, and I don't see how mentioned your romance background in the query letter could hurt you. Honestly, if an agent were to reject you based on a prejudice against Romance writers, would you really want to work with that agent anyway? Some may think I'm being naive, but I don't think I would.