Are there subjects that just wont get published

Hillsy7

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Hey guys and gals,

So as a writing prompt I generated some random tropes and tried to mash them together (Story generator on the TV tropes site - I recommend it). Anyway I went for 1,000 words and, well, kinda overshot. By about 7,000. Yeah, you know how it is. Anyway, I think I created something a lot deeper than I thought, perhaps enough to carry a novel. But there's a problem (NB: there's always a problem).

1) I'm beginning to layer in the outlines (albeit in my head), to take the writing seriously. This requires a lot of effort (I'm a thorough planner and drafter).
........which would normally be fine. Except..........
2) The backdrop to the plot is, well, one rarely seen outside fan-fic. And not very...professional...fan-fic at that (I've hunted the net and found no real examples). I think I can do it justice and I think I can do it believable. Thing is I just don't think it will within a Astronomic Unit of publication.

So here goes - the set-up is a young musician who, for various reasons most of which are lethal, has to start a new identity.......as a woman (not medically, mind you). I'm playing it straight (boom boom!), probably going for a thriller (psychological or crime), and using the pressures of having to live, to be, so different while not affording the slightest mistake to torture the poor dude. Plus of course trying to build some semblance of a life in the process.

Now, I know this is triggery for many, and the maxim usually follows that if it's not already been done, there's normally a reason. So I'm wondering if this is just one of those subjects that just wont be published. Should I just treat it like the exercise it started as, free-write, finish it up, and not waste the colossal effort of creating a solid product at the end of it?

Any and all thoughts will be gratefully received (even just "Eww, DUDE!")
 

cornflake

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Hey guys and gals,

So as a writing prompt I generated some random tropes and tried to mash them together (Story generator on the TV tropes site - I recommend it). Anyway I went for 1,000 words and, well, kinda overshot. By about 7,000. Yeah, you know how it is. Anyway, I think I created something a lot deeper than I thought, perhaps enough to carry a novel. But there's a problem (NB: there's always a problem).

1) I'm beginning to layer in the outlines (albeit in my head), to take the writing seriously. This requires a lot of effort (I'm a thorough planner and drafter).
........which would normally be fine. Except..........
2) The backdrop to the plot is, well, one rarely seen outside fan-fic. And not very...professional...fan-fic at that (I've hunted the net and found no real examples). I think I can do it justice and I think I can do it believable. Thing is I just don't think it will within a Astronomic Unit of publication.

So here goes - the set-up is a young musician who, for various reasons most of which are lethal, has to start a new identity.......as a woman (not medically, mind you). I'm playing it straight (boom boom!), probably going for a thriller (psychological or crime), and using the pressures of having to live, to be, so different while not affording the slightest mistake to torture the poor dude. Plus of course trying to build some semblance of a life in the process.

Now, I know this is triggery for many, and the maxim usually follows that if it's not already been done, there's normally a reason. So I'm wondering if this is just one of those subjects that just wont be published. Should I just treat it like the exercise it started as, free-write, finish it up, and not waste the colossal effort of creating a solid product at the end of it?

Any and all thoughts will be gratefully received (even just "Eww, DUDE!")

I don't understand. This sounds like a not-unheard-of thing, especially as it's a musician. I mean Billy Tipton is kind of the legend for this, no? There's an opera singer I recall too, and women living as men in military things... nothing new under the sun.
 

Chalula88

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Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why anyone would have an issue with this plot (or why you say people's reactions might be "ewww" - unless, again, I'm missing something).

It has been done before outside fan fiction (though mostly as a comedy), but I'm not sure what fan fiction you're even referring to.
 

JanetReid

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It's all in the writing. Tame subjects badly written are crap. Unusual set ups can be amazing.

And if you think cross-gender stuff is unusual or not been done, you haven't read enough. Taylor Stevens' novels have a main character who employs her androgyny quite often.
 

mayqueen

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I'm not understanding why that would be unpublishable, either. Depending on what you're doing with it, it might be objectionable in terms of tropes about gender issues.
 

Hillsy7

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Well that's a partial relief....

Thing was while gestating the idea further, I beat the crap out of google and found, as mentioned, quite a few references to women masquerading as men in order to bypass various taboos. I found a few where the reverse was the case (a number were comedy - especially in film). Problem was I hit a slew of fan-fic....and by fan-fic I mean online erotic shorts, naturally. Basically my internal alarm went a bit haywire and, re-reading my opening which (ahem - please excuse the pun) comes straight out with it, put the two together and thought "no one is going to want anything to do with this". Especially as the characters choice is both desperate and, hopefully, going to really screw him up.....

MayQueen - Yeah, offending through gender stereotyping, upsetting the LGBTQ community by mis-representing something, overplaying it, underplaying it....yeah that's a whole 'nother pile of problems I need to sort through, but thought I needed to know if I even needed to bother first....
 

amschilling

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I don't think you'd offend the LBGTQ community unless you make it seem that there's something deviant or freakish or immoral about men in drag. Putting a guy in a dress doesn't make him a queen any more than giving a girl a cropped haircut makes her a lesbian. And him having issues with pretending to be a woman, and learning what women go through or whatever, shouldn't offend women, either (straight or not). If it did, I can think of about a bazillion movies and books that would never have been released.
 

benbradley

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I'm not sure what you're saying, maybe a dude gets a new identity under the FBI Witness Protection Program and the new identity is that of a woman...

There's the movie "Mrs. Doubtfire" (I haven't seen it, don't know the story, only that it exists), and Heinlein's novel "I Will Fear No Evil" (an old rich man whose body is failing has his brain transplanted into a young beautiful woman's body).

The concept has been done in some form or aonther, but don't let that stop you from writing your story. I keep hearing that getting published has less to do with the idea and more to do with writing a good, "compelling" story.
 

Zombie Kat

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Do you have a scene in which:

1. Your character falls in love with a woman and dishonourably agrees to a girly slumber party, thus leading to amusing erection-related high jinks?
2. Your character tries to act like a woman by being exceptionally emotional to the point of hysteria, explaining it with ‘I must be getting my period’?
3. Angry drag artists start a bitch fight with your character, complete with hair-pulling and scratching?
4. Your character hangs out in a girls’ locker room where all the women are inexplicably topless and touching each others’ breasts?

No? Then you’re probably OK! It’s when premises like yours are used to reinforce rubbish stereotypes about women or the LGBT community that it gets dodgy. Don’t be a dickhead about any entire swath of the population and you’ll be fine.

Just having a man dressed as a woman isn’t enough to veto a story, and it’s not enough to carry it either. It’s all in the plot and execution.
 

WeaselFire

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Mary Read, an early 1700's pirate, went by Mark Read. So no, not unusual, modern or even controversial. You want musicians, then you have Some Like it Hot with Marilyn Monroe, Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis. Tootsie is a more modern version. Or Mrs Doubtfire.

Write the damn book. :)

Jeff
 

heza

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Yeah, in fact, gender-swapping/cross-dressing stories are actually pretty damn common. Some are comedy, some are serious, but it's been a part of culture from ancient myth to Shakespeare to Disney.

I'm not sure what you're worried unless it's simply providing a respectful portrayal of women and cross dressers in general. Just do your research and get beta readers. You'll be fine.

Also: I think you see a lot of erotica and fanfiction because there's a lot of erotic and fanfiction about pretty much anything. If someone's thought it up, someone else has fetishized it.
 

Hillsy7

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OK great.....

I was probably over-thinking things. It's just I could see male protag + crossdressing + drama illiciting a lot of negative reaction. Clearly I was inventing worries. Guess now I have to decide if I can do it without upsetting anyone.

Thanks for replying everyone...
 

quicklime

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OK great.....

I was probably over-thinking things. It's just I could see male protag + crossdressing + drama illiciting a lot of negative reaction. Clearly I was inventing worries. Guess now I have to decide if I can do it without upsetting anyone.

Thanks for replying everyone...


well, if all you can do is ape it (think the movie "White Chicks" for example, or God knows how many really bad, dumb comedies) then you'll be getting all the negative you could want.

But done well, it has been done since forever.....
 

JanetReid

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Wait, there's a pirate named Mary Read?? Are you sure it wasn't REID? I bet it was. Walk the plank, matey!
 

Jamesaritchie

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Sounds abut as standard and common as you can get. But the only way to know is to write the novel, not think about an outline.
 

GingerGunlock

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Donna Pudick

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M Butterfly was a broadway show about a man who fell in love with another man posing as a woman. Big hit.
 

Hillsy7

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Wow - cheers Ginger.....that's a great excerpt. Lots to think about.....
 

frimble3

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Mary Read, an early 1700's pirate, went by Mark Read. So no, not unusual, modern or even controversial. You want musicians, then you have Some Like it Hot with Marilyn Monroe, Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis. Tootsie is a more modern version. Or Mrs Doubtfire.

Write the damn book. :)

Jeff
I'm astonished that it took ten posts to get to actually spelling out 'Some Like It Hot', about musicians, on the run from the Mob, who disguise themselves as women to save their lives.
That's what I thought the 'fanfic' talk was about, and I thought I'd missed out.

It's a classic, and if they could do it then, you can do similar now.