first plot point

celticroots · Jun 8, 2013

I am working on the second draft of my YA novel. And I am reading some books on plot and structure. In one book I read,the first plot point should come around the 1/4 Mark. Is this just a guideline? Should the first plot point come in a certain chapter?

Maryn · Jun 8, 2013

There's no single correct structure, but a quarter of the way in for the plot's first turning point adheres to many, most notably Michael Hauge's structure lessons (once free, now pay-to-see) for screenwriters.

That gives you a hook and about the first tenth of the book to set up the character and his/her basic situation, then at around the ten percent mark, to give the character an opportunity which creates a new desire or goal. (Jed qualifies for the skateboard competition, or Sara gets a role in the school play.) The time from the ten percent up to the twenty-five is spent with the character in his or her new situation as s/he takes advantage of the opportunity. (Practice, practice, practice.)

Then right about the twenty-five percent mark, something happens to your character, outside his or her control, which changes that desire into a specific, visible goal with a clearly defined end point. This is the scene where your story concept is defined, and your hero's outer motivation is revealed. (Jed realizes he cannot win--but his help might be the difference in his sometimes-friend, sometimes-rival winning. Sara learns her family plans to travel when the play will be performed, and she's determined to stop the trip.)

The reader needs to be rooting for the character to achieve the goal, so my silly examples might not be good illustrations. Who wants to root for a kid to screw up her family's vacation?

Maryn, flying by the seat of her pants on the examples

Brightdreamer · Jun 8, 2013

Your first plot point needs to appear on Page 25, in the fourth paragraph from the top, and should take no fewer than five nor more than sixteen words to describe. Unless you're using Calibri instead of Times New Roman font, in which case you're allowed three extra words, so long as they're adverbs with Latin roots.

Your first plot point should be where it should be in your story. If it comes sooner or later than a quarter of the way through, so be it. Just don't draw out your setup (or hack it back) to hit this relatively arbitrary goal.

(And to Maryn: I could think of some scenarios off the top of my head where I'd root for a kid to screw up the family vacation. Maybe they're going to visit Uncle Ted, who did something bad to her cousin Sally at the last reunion - but nobody believes her. Maybe she's part of a secret society that knows about magical monsters, and their vacation's going to put them right in the middle of a massive deathwyrm migration. Maybe she overhears Mom and Dad talking about what's really going to happen to her and her brother Hansel on their "camping trip" to the woods...)

Sorry if I'm cross-posting, but AW's crawlin' right now for me...

tko · Jun 8, 2013

maybe too late

Remember, in the last few years the bar has been raised. Agents and readers are demanding more, earlier. In most modern thrillers the stakes w/the initial incident comes in the first few pages. Leaving the poor author to establish character, involvement, scene, and stakes in a few words.

For other genre you get more of a break, but I think there is probably some pressure to get to the point right away. Or be a really, really good writer.

Pretend you are reading a YA novel. Nothing much happens in the 1st three chapters. The MC goes to school, has a nice time, a few bullies, parents don't understand, you get to know them. Why do you read the 4th chapter? When do you stop reading at the bookstore, and actually purchase the book?

Having said that, I understand that there is a difference between a hook and the 1st plot point. But it's one I don't believe in strongly, despite having read up on it. The only thing you should worry about is whether the reader wants to turn the page. Despite the numerous article on the 1st plot point, they're are plenty of great novels that don't have one at the 25% mark. And plenty that do.

http://storyfix.com/hook-vs-first-plot-point-dont-get-fooled

http://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/2012/03/secrets-of-story-structure-pt-4-first.html

Write the story. Look at your structure. Does it have a 1st plot point at the 25% mark? If not, why not? If it does, can you purify and improve it?

Sometimes these rules shouldn't be viewed as rules. Just ways to look at your novel.

Bufty · Jun 8, 2013

I guess it works for some folk, but surely no two stories unfold the same way and I certainly don't aim for any formulaic specific point or percentage position for a plot point or anything else to appear. Hopefully the story is interesting from the outset and developments appear when they appear.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 8, 2013

Every page should include a reason for the reader to turn the page.

blacbird · Jun 8, 2013

James D. Macdonald said:
Every page should include a reason for the reader to turn the page.

Well, as long as that reason doesn't cause the reader to turn over all the remaining pages at once and toss the book in the bin.

caw

jimbro · Jun 8, 2013

tko said:
R...The only thing you should worry about is whether the reader wants to turn the page. ...

I second this. If it keeps the reader reading, it's good. If not, it's bad. This is the only rule. All others derive from it.

Kerosene · Jun 8, 2013

Second, or third, or fourthing...

What people said about making the reader continue. It doesn't matter how you're structuring the plot in the book if you're not entertaining the reader.

dangerousbill · Jun 8, 2013

celticroots said:
I am working on the second draft of my YA novel. And I am reading some books on plot and structure. In one book I read,the first plot point should come around the 1/4 Mark. Is this just a guideline? Should the first plot point come in a certain chapter?

Everyone wants rules.

There are no rules but one: Don't bore your reader so much s/he puts your book down. That's it. That's the Whole Book of Rules.

You can put the first plot point wherever you please. If there was a formula for writing novels correctly, computers would be doing it and writers would be unnecessary.

Layla Nahar · Jun 8, 2013

dangerousbill said:
If there was a formula for writing novels correctly, computers would be doing it and writers would be unnecessary.

+1

job · Jun 8, 2013

Looking at my last four books, I see they start out with the protagonist
-- in prison, about to escape
-- stabbed, seeking refuge
-- hiding, trying to get to Paris
-- deliberately walking into great danger

So the first significant action is to escape, stumble into refuge, leave for Paris, find the danger.

In every case, something significant has happened shortly before the book opens. That prior action drives the initial events. The first 'plot point', if I understand what you mean, occurs before Page One.

Other folks are going to like three chapters of 'everyday life' before 'a challenge presented' in Chapter Three. Other folks are going to slap a prologue on the front. Other folks are going to insert a subplot before the main story gets going. Other folks ....

What I'm saying is, you can do about anything.

Look at your protagonist. What is his problem on Page One? What's his next act in solving it?
That's a clue as to how you organize the story.

WriteMinded · Jun 9, 2013

dangerousbill said:
Everyone wants rules.

You betcha. If we had rules to follow we could kid ourselves into believing we know how to write.

Little Anonymous Me · Jun 9, 2013

I'm just imagining this awful world where I'm on page 125 and I just know the first plot point is coming because that is how The Magic Book Recipe works. I think we should stick with Barbossa on this one: "The code is more what you'd call 'guidelines.' "

celticroots · Jun 11, 2013

Thank you for the responses. They made me feel better.

Laer Carroll · Jun 11, 2013

All the prescriptions of where to put important elements of stories are just suggestions, not edicts laid down by the literary gods. Those who slavishly follows them rather than taking them as suggestions are seriously shackling their creativity.

LadyDae · Jun 11, 2013

Little Anonymous Me said:
I'm just imagining this awful world where I'm on page 125 and I just know the first plot point is coming because that is how The Magic Book Recipe works. I think we should stick with Barbossa on this one: "The code is more what you'd call 'guidelines.' "

I second this. I think I'd be bored in a book if the exciting stuff didn't start until a fourth of the way through and I would never write that way.

lothar97 · Jun 11, 2013

The "first plot point" is a terrible name for what it actually is attempting to refer to. It definitely isn't referring the first part of the plot to be presented.

"Save the Cat" is my favorite story structure concept, but you certainly don't need to follow any structure exactly. I do think that understanding them and understanding why they are the way they are can be useful. Like others have said they are more of guidelines. Harry Potter would have been weird if he didn't arrive at Hogwarts until 80% through the book, right? Or if the actual Hunger Games began on page 5 of the book it probably wouldn't have had the same emotional impact. Of course things like that probably come naturally when you think of how the series of events in your book play out.

http://www.blakesnyder.com/downloads/synthesis.pdf

brianjanuary · Jun 13, 2013

Structure is extremely important to the writing of a novel, especially in a world of readers who have been conditioned by years of watching commercial movies, where the major plot points are clearly defined (you can almost set your clock by them).

The first plot point comes anywhere from 20-25% into the story--it's the start of the actual story (for example, Imperial storm troopers kill Luke's aunt and uncle, freeing him to go off into space to save the galaxy).

quicklime · Jun 13, 2013

Bufty said:
I guess it works for some folk, but surely no two stories unfold the same way and I certainly don't aim for any formulaic specific point or percentage position for a plot point or anything else to appear. Hopefully the story is interesting from the outset and developments appear when they appear.

i guess me, too. I try to make the story start where something interesting is happening and go from there, and later if I feel I need to back-fill a bit I may to flesh out the character, but I just tell stories. In them, stuff happens when it should for the story, not from an essay on where things ought to occur.

Susan Coffin · Jun 13, 2013

James D. Macdonald said:
Every page should include a reason for the reader to turn the page.

This.

LearningTwoWrite · Jul 5, 2013

tko said:
Remember, in the last few years the bar has been raised. Agents and readers are demanding more, earlier. In most modern thrillers the stakes w/the initial incident comes in the first few pages. Leaving the poor author to establish character, involvement, scene, and stakes in a few words.

For other genre you get more of a break, but I think there is probably some pressure to get to the point right away. Or be a really, really good writer.

Pretend you are reading a YA novel. Nothing much happens in the 1st three chapters. The MC goes to school, has a nice time, a few bullies, parents don't understand, you get to know them. Why do you read the 4th chapter? When do you stop reading at the bookstore, and actually purchase the book?

Having said that, I understand that there is a difference between a hook and the 1st plot point. But it's one I don't believe in strongly, despite having read up on it. The only thing you should worry about is whether the reader wants to turn the page. Despite the numerous article on the 1st plot point, they're are plenty of great novels that don't have one at the 25% mark. And plenty that do.

http://storyfix.com/hook-vs-first-plot-point-dont-get-fooled

http://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/2012/03/secrets-of-story-structure-pt-4-first.html

Write the story. Look at your structure. Does it have a 1st plot point at the 25% mark? If not, why not? If it does, can you purify and improve it?

Sometimes these rules shouldn't be viewed as rules. Just ways to look at your novel.

Do you know of any example books I could look at to study how they handled this?

brianjanuary said:
Structure is extremely important to the writing of a novel, especially in a world of readers who have been conditioned by years of watching commercial movies, where the major plot points are clearly defined (you can almost set your clock by them).

The first plot point comes anywhere from 20-25% into the story--it's the start of the actual story (for example, Imperial storm troopers kill Luke's aunt and uncle, freeing him to go off into space to save the galaxy).

I don't know if it is conditioning or not, but the structure sure works well, if the story is good. I'm sure everyone on AW is aware of the historical fact of enduring stories based upon tried and true structure(s) such as the one you mentioned (not saying it is every single story but it is a lot).

On other comments, I do not believe rules always stifle creativity. For some it is liberating to have parameters to work within. There is a time to break with good working principles, if you know when, and there is no "magic" formula, but having "rules" is freeing. As someone in this thread wrote, story writing structures are not laws from God, but they sure are helpful.

Arcana · Jul 6, 2013

celticroots said:
I am working on the second draft of my YA novel. And I am reading some books on plot and structure. In one book I read,the first plot point should come around the 1/4 Mark. Is this just a guideline? Should the first plot point come in a certain chapter?

What I do is take a couple of days off, or a week, then start reading (not editing!) from the beginning. If by doing that, you feel the first 'plot point' is too far in, then it probably is.

Woolly · Jul 8, 2013

I know that structure is one of my weak points, because I keep getting rejection letters that say, "Great voice, terrible structure." So maybe take my opinion with a bit of skepticism.

Personally, I'm confused by the idea of writing scenes that just play out small conflicts and introduce the main character in his or her element. The writing of those scenes just bores me. I always seem to start with a core relationship, and I am no good at forcing the main characters into a low-stakes conflict, or starting with a first meeting.

I suspect this is a screenwriting crossover issue. You can wait that long in a movie because 10% is only ten minutes and that's enough time to show Indiana Jones teach a little snippet of class or whatever without losing the audience. But thirty pages of college professor internal monologue about his yearning for adventure? Yikes!

Three of the most memorable books I've ever read barrel past this rule and drive HARD towards a big event at maybe 40% through: A Separate Peace, Native Son, and The Sense of an Ending. Those books had momentum. They just sprinted.

first plot point

celticroots

Maryn

At Sea

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

tko

just thanks fore everything

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

blacbird

jimbro

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

Layla Nahar

Seashell Seller

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

WriteMinded

Derailed

Little Anonymous Me

celticroots

Laer Carroll

Aerospace engineer turned writer

LadyDae

New AW user. Veteran Writer 8+

lothar97

brianjanuary

quicklime

all out of fucks to give

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

LearningTwoWrite

Arcana

Woolly

Rambler