Choosing an e-publisher, for real

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
[FONT=&quot]Getting an agent didn’t work out; life’s too short for the slush piles of the bigger publishers that do accept unagented submissions… So here you are, shopping around for e-publishers. You’ve read the relevant Absolute Write discussions, you know that money must always flow to the author, you can now detect vanity outfits and scammers, you feel you’re good to go.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]E-publishers don’t pay advances (or only miniscule ones) and don’t get your books into physical stores, but the royalties sound generous, and there’s this e-book explosion going on, right?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But on the other hand you really don’t want to self-publish – all this editing and cover-making and marketing crap should be done by people whose profession is to handle it. The writer writes, the editor edits, the cover artist makes cover art, the marketer markets. A division of labor which validates the existence of the publisher in the first place.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]OK. Some people would agree, others would disagree, but you’re set on this. So here are a few things to check out.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do they actually have successful books?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The first and most important one: does this publisher have kindle bestsellers in your genre? Check them out on Amazon. Look up the sales rank numbers of their relevant books. Here’s a highly subjective rule of thumb:[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]The book is in the top 100 of paid kindle downloads, and has been there for a while. – Hats off![/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 1000 – Very good, bravo![/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 10 000 – Not bad, actually.[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 100 000 – Neither here nor there…[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 200 000 – This author has gained a life lesson and a migraine.[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]Below 200 000 – The wrong book was picked up by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Remember, it’s your genre that counts. If all their bestsellers are in the alpha werewolf latex bondage niche, then your galactic empire saga is not up their alley, even if they do accept submissions in this field. There's a very real chance that they only want your book to build their credibility as “publishing powerhouse”, and are not actually going to focus on making it a hit. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Also, most likely, they’ll classify it by their existing standards, describing it to the world not, for example, as “transhumanist cyberpunk epic”, but as “futuristic GLBT shape-shifters”, or something. Readers searching for transhumanist cyberpunk epics will be ignorant of your book’s existence, while futuristic GLBT shape-shifter lovers will feel cheated and will pan your book, or even spank it with a tiny paddle while dressed in a furrie suit. Find the publisher who knows what your genre is about.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Caveat: if the epublisher in question does indeed have successful books out there, and in your genre at that, make sure these books are not only by the owner/editor of the house. Otherwise there's a real chance you're being taken on just to hang around as a ‘house author’ to build someone’s ego and credibility and not as a potential 'winner'.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]II. I checked the kindle sales. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They do not have successful books. But I’m sure mine can be the first[/FONT]!
[FONT=&quot]This may not be entirely delusional, miracles have been known to happen, but you really should check the following:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Publishing scope[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Do they publish 1- 2 books a month or even less? If yes, then maybe you can get lots of personal attention to make your book reach its potential in quality and marketability. Perhaps they really did just need a lucky break to find the one awesome book that will transform everything – your masterpiece.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But if they publish a million books in a million genres – then your books is definitely destined to languish in the murky depth of low-sellers together with the rest. This is most likely an outfit that doesn’t even pretend to try to get a book to sell 10 000 copies – they’re content with a 1000 books selling 10 copies each. Perhaps it makes some sort of financial sense to them – but certainly not to you.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Marketing:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Do they say that they expect the author “to do his bit” and that theirs is a “revolutionary new approach which empowers the writer”, or maybe that you have to present with your submission query a marketing plan, because that’s totally how the market works these days, even with the bigger publishers and stuff? Then there's a real chance these people will not market your book. That they will maybe go through the motions for a few minutes, but in essence, they'll expect you to work at it as if you are self-publishing, but with them taking a cut of the profits.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Not all who use that language are like that, but many are. When all overall impressions add up, you'll know which type they are.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But I can market my book better than they can[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. It will be a success in spite of them. Well, in that case, just self-publish already.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Covers:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Do their book covers in your genre suck? If yes – yours will suck too. Do you buy books with cheap crap covers? (Unless you’re already a fan of the author? If a large group of people is already enjoying your work and prepared to pay for the privilege – just self-publish already)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pricing[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Do they overprize their books? Do they sell novels by McNobody and his dystopian undead teen serials/galactic marines repulsing insectoid invasions for $19.99 a copy? If yes – then they are morons. If they are not morons, then, very likely, while they don’t actually ask for money upfront, they expect to get back their miniscule investment on your book from the ten friends and relatives of yours that will buy your book, and that’s all she wrote.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Editing:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Check two things – a) Do their book excerpts show a lack of basic proofreading, and b) do they state some ludicrous ‘house rules’ for authors? If yes, then imagine the worst scenario: a book with proofreading misses on every page, with arbitrary house rules castrating the prose into the bargain. Why would you wish that upon your book, into which you’ve invested so much time and effort?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Organization size:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Is the publisher a one person in his/her bedroom gig? If yes – what happens when this person falls ill, or their relatives fall ill, or they simply grow disillusioned with this business and suddenly focus on a career in interpretative dance or adult webcam shows featuring small paddles and furrie suits? You’re left without a paddle up fecal brook, is what happens.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You’ve already signed the rights to your book away for years, and will have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy back the rights if you want them now. Or even just to track them down if they stop answering emails for one reason or other.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fine one-person outfits do exist out there, but do your research – have they been around for long enough to show they know what they’re doing and are not prone to accidents?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Overall longevity:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] You not only have to look for signs that an outfit is not a scam. An outfit that’s full of well-meaning amateurs who will go under in a year or two is as bad. Sometimes sunk publishers do the honorable thing and instantly and publically release all books and authors from any obligation, and even pay out the remainder of the accumulated royalties. But sometimes they don’t. Boy, it sucks when they don’t. Pick someone who will be around. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Contract duration:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] A contract longer than 5 years, especially with people who do not have a line of consistently bestselling books in your genre, is merely an indication that those running the outfit are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Which means they are reality-challenged. The opposite of effective and efficient. They won’t be able to help you in your quest for success and recognition even if they wanted to.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Summary:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Make sure they already sell successfully stuff like yours.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If not[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Make sure they can at least edit-not-butcher stuff like yours.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Can provide good cover art for stuff like yours.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Can price correctly stuff like yours.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Seem at least in theory capable of giving your stuff the attention it needs in order to get noticed and purchased.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Are not just one strung out dude/overweight dudette (or strung out dudette/overweight dude), who may or may not suddenly disappear overnight.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Are not a bigger amateur outfit that will suddenly disappear overnight. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Aren’t taking rights they don’t deserve to take, and don’t take the rights they do deserve to take for a ridiculously long amount of time.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yes, this means you will spend days and days researching. Your book deserves no less from you.

[/FONT]
 
Last edited:

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
That was a very helpful post, dondomat, but I have a couple of issues with it.

[FONT=&quot]I. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do they actually have successful books?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The first and most important one: does this publisher have kindle bestsellers in your genre? Check them out on Amazon. Look up the sales rank numbers of their relevant books. Here’s a highly subjective rule of thumb:[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]The book is in the top 100 of paid kindle downloads, and has been there for a while. – Hats off![/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 1000 – Very good, bravo![/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 10 000 – Not bad, actually.[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 100 000 – Neither here nor there…[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]It’s in the top 200 000 – This author has gained a life lesson and a migraine.[/FONT]
- [FONT=&quot]Below 200 000 – The wrong book was picked up by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. [/FONT]

It's possible to get a book to #1 on a niche Amazon chart with only a handful of sales--I've seen it happen with fewer than 20 sales. A good Amazon ranking isn't necessarily indicative of good sales, and there's no predicting how many sales books have made to reach their rankings.

[FONT="]Marketing:[/FONT][/U][FONT="] Do they say that they expect the author “to do his bit” and that theirs is a “revolutionary new approach which empowers the writer”, or maybe that you have to present with your submission query a marketing plan, because that’s totally how the market works these days, even with the bigger publishers and stuff? Then there's a real chance these people will not market your book. That they will maybe go through the motions for a few minutes, but in essence, they'll expect you to work at it as if you are self-publishing, but with them taking a cut of the profits.[/FONT][FONT="] Not all who use that language are like that, but many are. When all overall impressions add up, you'll know which type they are.[/FONT]

[/QUOTE]When submitting non-fiction it isn't that unusual to be asked for a marketing plan, or information along those lines. This shouldn't necessarily be considered a red flag. Although I agree that writers should be wary of the scenario you describe.

[QUOTE][U][FONT="]Editing:[/FONT]
[FONT="] Check two things – a) Do their book excerpts show a lack of basic proofreading, and b) do they state some ludicrous ‘house rules’ for authors? If yes, then imagine the worst scenario: a book with proofreading misses on every page, with arbitrary house rules castrating the prose into the bargain. Why would you wish that upon your book, into which you’ve invested so much time and effort?[/FONT][/QUOTE]All the good publishers I've worked with have a specific house style; but editing a book to fit that style doesn't equate to "castrating the prose".

[QUOTE][FONT="]You’ve already signed the rights to your book away for years, and will have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy back the rights if you want them now. Or even just to track them down if they stop answering emails for one reason or other.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
Good contracts contain good reversion clauses (and we wouldn't sign bad contracts, would we?). It's very rarely necessary for writers to buy their rights back.[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes, this means you will spend days and days researching. Your book deserves no less from you.[/FONT]
Agreed. It's a stage you shouldn't skimp on. I do hope writers will take your advice.
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
Thanks for the comments, Old Hack.

Yes, the kindle sales charts are unstable affairs, but it's the easiest way one can get a semblance of info, and also, if the book remains for days and even weeks in the general vicinity of top 1000 or top 10 000, or top 500 000, for that matter, one can draw certain conclusions.

When you say good publishers with non-castrating house styles, you probably mean the ones which are not in the "I hope my book will be their first successful one" category, but weightier representatives of the industry who have already proven their worth.

Some publishers, and magazines, are ran by people who don't have what it takes to be really good at what they do, and they build up defensive walls of various details for authors and contributors to follow, more in order to make theirs look like an exclusive club, than in order to actually produce a kick-ass book or magazine issue, which would boost the careers and credibility of everyone involved.

You know, the type that go like "we may never have published a book anyone has heard of, or won an award people actually respect, but what you need to do is change every asterisk in your text into a triangle, change the font to Gregorian-etruskian, spell Mr like Mister but Missis like Ms, leave one space after each third period in a paragraph, underline thoughts if a vampire thinks them and italicize them if it's a werewolf, change every 'he thought' into 'thought he', save the text as PDB, and send it over at precisely 15.30 on the day after the new moon is visible in South Dakota."

I exaggerate, but I think sooner or later we all run into people like that.

...Yes, I hope aspiring authors take notice of the points described above. Some advice can be "do like me", some is rather "never ever do like I did", but both types can be very valuable.
 
Last edited:

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
Helpful post but I don't think I agree with the Amazon sales ranking part of it either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the sales ranking change weekly depending on RECENT sales? So you might have a book that was a New York Times best seller in 2009 but might have a meh ranking now? But really if the book was a New York Times best seller at some point then one might think your e-publisher had something going for it? No?
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
True that, Ginger,
cross-referencing all possible bestseller charts and available earnout statistics is the best approach. But still, choosing the 'new and popular' option in the kindle thing should help feel out the current glass ceiling of the publisher's new releases. Another tool to use. Although, I haven't paid much attention to the NYT list in a number of months, but I don't remember any epubbers there apart from the occasional Samhain, Entangled, and Carina. The vast majority never pop up there, I think.
 

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
Add to that Writer's Coffee Shop , Omnific Publishing , and Ellora's Cave. there may be some others.
 
Last edited:

AnneGlynn

If you don't try, you can't fail
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
380
Reaction score
17
Location
Mostly in my head
Website
anneglynn.com
Wonderful post, dondomat. It provides a lot of direction to those of us looking for an e-publisher.

It's possible to get a book to #1 on a niche Amazon chart with only a handful of sales--I've seen it happen with fewer than 20 sales. A good Amazon ranking isn't necessarily indicative of good sales, and there's no predicting how many sales books have made to reach their rankings.

Absolutely true, Old Hack, I've seen this, too. But #1 on a niche Amazon chart isn't the same as #1 on Paid in Kindle Store list. If an author reaches #1 on the Paid list, they're selling a serious number of copies. If an e-publisher has titles in the Top 1,000, they're doing something right and probably should be considered.
 

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
Yes it's possible to get a book to number one on niche charts with only a handful of sales. Like my Christmas book miraculously making number one on a "holiday books" best seller list in May. lol
 

Daddyo

been around a while
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
436
Reaction score
45
Location
Deep In The Heart of Texas
I see that you have 7 books published by six different ePubs. Which one best fits the criteria that you've laid out?
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
I see that you have 7 books published by six different ePubs. Which one best fits the criteria that you've laid out?

None fit all the criteria. I wish I knew then what I know now. Then again, I also wish I was a better writer. (But, not to muddy the issue completely, Rooster Republic were/are the best, but they're in the experimental/bizarro niche, with very specific genre requirements, so they are good fit for a very limited number of writers.)

As you say - six houses - this allowed me to sample six different approaches. And, as I said in an above post, some advice is do like me - some advice is don't do like me.

Working with each helped me, in one way or another, in figuring out what should not be done and why, when I finally sat down and systematized each misstep along the way. My intense research of potential houses for my current newer projects is also a contributing factor. When I started out in late 2011, I was but a student. Now, I am the master of epub missteps.

In another year or two, when I'm able to see with fresh eyes my big and small mistakes - I'll be able to write a systematized post on author missteps. But that's another story.
 
Last edited:

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
As you say - six houses - this allowed me to sample six different approaches. And as I said in an above post - some advice is do like me, so advice is don't do like me.

They all helped me, in one way or another, in figuring out what should not be done and why, combining and systematizing each misstep along the way. When I started out in late 2011, I was but a student. Now, I am the master of epub missteps.

Hah, that goes for the rest of us out here who've been waylaid by the e-book/print small press outfits, who really can and do take advantage of writers by offering sub-standard contracts/clauses and conditions. I just got a quarterly royalty statement from a publisher that amounted to $2.99. It is one of the best books I've ever written. I promoted this title like a man in a frenzy for months and months but received no support from this publisher. Can somebody say, "authormill."

I'm not exclusive to this type of treatment. This new e-book revolution is a great thing for publishers and readers, I think, but I'm seriously concerned about its future tied to writers who are looking for legit publication. I would only advise that the top-gun e-book houses that veinglory points out be the ones you submit to first and foremost. Let the others fall by the wayside as they most assuredly will do in time. Thusly, we weed the garden and let the healthy and deserving grow and prosper.
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
Ah, but then there's the other counter-developement: you submit to the best-established ones, they reject you.

By this time (as evaluation and rejection takes forever) you've progressed as a writer; you revise your stuff and submit to the mid-level ones. They reject you. You still suck, although less than before.

You've progressed yet more and now really whip your stuff into shape. But now only the smaller guys are left. You submit to them. They snap it up, because they see that you're not illiterate and the plot is not plagiarized or fan fiction, but once the initial euphoria wears off, it turns out no one is really sure how to proceed. You bluff that you do, they bluff that they do, and the missteps begin.

On the other hand I have the nagging suspicion that this really is the correct measure of one's level of writing and story-telling. That once you reach the level on which the smaller guys take you and the mutual pretense of being total pros begins, this is your level at the time. And what follows is a slow climb back the ladder to the mid-level guys and the upper reaches guys, but gawd, it's a slow process.

At least in the paperback past, when one reached what today is the small epub level, back then one could already appear in the cheap sci-fi/horror/mystery imprints instantly. Be purchased in drugstores by...drug-dudes, I guess. Because the business was different, and as I figure it, the various paperback monsters like Ace (who back then were guilty not only of bad editing but even of author revenue scamming), were the author-mills. Like Robert McCammon and Dean Koontz, whose first books both now pretend never really existed. Only McCammon is that way about his first three books, while Koontz - about his first thirty books, hehe.
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
Add to that Writer's Coffee Shop , Omnific Publishing , and Ellora's Cave. Yhere may be some others.

Ah yes. Well, they're in my blind spot, because I'm not in the romance and/or erotica field... And Writer's Coffee Shop - wasn't that like the Fifty Shades thing, initially? If that's them - then I'd rather classify it in the 'my book was their first and last mega-hit because miracles do happen'.

But I really don't know. I'm usually on the lookout for the speculative and/or experimental fiction oriented publishers, and that colors my perceptions.
 
Last edited:

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Absolutely true, Old Hack, I've seen this, too. But #1 on a niche Amazon chart isn't the same as #1 on Paid in Kindle Store list. If an author reaches #1 on the Paid list, they're selling a serious number of copies. If an e-publisher has titles in the Top 1,000, they're doing something right and probably should be considered.

Agreed. Which is why I specified "niche" in my comment.

None fit all the criteria. I wish I knew then what I know now. Then again, I also wish I was a better writer.

I think that goes for all of us, on both counts.

As you say - six houses - this allowed me to sample six different approaches.

This is quietly important.

The right publisher for one is not necessarily the right publisher for another, or for the same person at another time. So much depends on our expectations and desires, and the amount of hand-holding we require, and so on and so forth. That's why it's impossible, really, to provide definitive lists of good publishers.

It's easy, however, to provide lists of bad publishers, as BR&BC shows.

Ah yes. Well, they're in my blind spot, because I'm not in the romance and/or erotica field... And Writer's Coffee Shop - wasn't that like the Fifty Shades thing, initially? If that's them - then I'd rather classify it in the 'my book was their first and last mega-hit because miracles do happen'.

But I really don't know. I'm usually on the lookout for the speculative and/or experimental fiction oriented publishers, and that colors my perceptions.

I believe the WCS did publish Fifty Shades, but might well be mistaken.

If we're both right (ha!) then I still wouldn't classify WCS as one of the best e-publishers available: Fifty Shades was one of those viral hits which I think succeeded despite its publisher, not because of it. There are plenty of other e-publishers I'd query before them.
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
I checked current TWCS on Amazon. While the sales appear to be neither here nor there, mostly, the pricing is steep. Kindle debuts at like 8.99 all over the place.

And yes, Fifty Shades was originally there, before migrating to the big-six people, I seem to recall now.
 

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
Yes Fifty Shades was Writer's Coffee Shop and I believe she signed with them because they specialize in reconstituted fan fiction.
An extraordinary thing Amazon is now starting a kind of fan fiction imprint Kindle Worlds where they have bought the rights to sell fan fiction based on popular TV shows.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht..._t=1401&pf_rd_p=1558409322&pf_rd_i=1001197431
Pity I don't even watch TV anymore.

(Sorry I got a little off topic but offering up info on the new oppountunitiy.)
 
Last edited:

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
I checked current TWCS on Amazon. While the sales appear to be neither here nor there, mostly, the pricing is steep. Kindle debuts at like 8.99 all over the place.

And yes, Fifty Shades was originally there, before migrating to the big-six people, I seem to recall now.

$8.99 for an ebook is going to make a lot of people bulk. This is one of the main things I hear digital first authors complaining about is no one buying their books because buyers consider them priced too high.
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
Hoho, thanks for the info, Ginger,
well, if Amazon are investing in fan fiction, this means there should be money in there if handled correctly. The only time I was ever tempted with something like that was when I watched a Stargate marathon, and then saw that writing official books for the franchise isn't too far-fetched.
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
Ebook pricing is a funny thing. A good epublisher will be able to tell you how they found their sweet spot, which is where the book makes the most money (not the most sales). Several epublishers price quite high and do very well by it (Loose Id, for example).
 

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
Ebook pricing is a funny thing. A good epublisher will be able to tell you how they found their sweet spot, which is where the book makes the most money (not the most sales). Several epublishers price quite high and do very well by it (Loose Id, for example).

I've noticed that too. Some $9.99 prices haven't kept the books from flying off the virtual shelf. But I noticed the majority of the small press lists under just under $4.99 and below too.
 

shelleyo

Just another face in a red jumpsuit
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
342
There's a ton of excellent info in your post, dondomat.

Something I see a lot that makes me feel bad for writers is their books
published so poorly without them even realizing it. There are two major factors at work here, in my opinion. Lack of research before submitting and signing a contract, and lack of knowledge of basic written English.

The research part is by far the easiest. Word-of-mouth reports about how it is to work with a press are fine, and there should be enough positive ones to be a trend. But it's also necessary to read some titles put out by that press, both for research into what kinds of books they want and to see how competent they are.

I've seen many people here and elsewhere proudly announce their new releases from this epress or that, only to find a terrible cover hiding an error-riddled mess of first-drafty, beginner prose. Many of these places can't edit and wouldn't know poor writing if it pinched their bums in the sunshine. Some writers may have great ideas and great story-telling abilities but can't spell or tell the difference between passive and active construction or recognize subject/verb agreements errors. If a writer hasn't advanced to the point to fix these things in her own prose, she's not going to see the problems in other people's. So those ebooks from that crappy so-called publisher seem okay.

The writer won't sell copies or make money, she won't learn the value of editing and revising, and she'll be stuck in a loop of submitting under-revised work to places which also don't know any better, because any legitimate publisher will read the first few paragraphs and toss it aside with the realization that this writer isn't ready yet. But the writer gets to say she's been "published."

A person can't know what she doesn't know. So unless someone points out that she has a problem with switching tenses or writing passively or whatever, she's unlikely to ever work on that weakness. The only other way to find out is to discover it herself, usually by trying to figure out why things aren't going the way they were anticipated, such as sales or praise. It's far too easy to blame no sales on slow book sales overall or the industry or some external force than to admit that maybe the writing isn't all that great.

Bottom line, if you have any doubt about your own abilities to see errors and edit, have someone with an excellent grasp of the written word who reads a lot of fiction look at the books put out by the press before you even consider submitting. This step alone will eliminate a ton of them before you even get to sales and other factors.
 

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
I can't say I've bought any books of the kind you're describing shelley other than one self published free book I picked up on ARE. I guess again these are maybe the new epresses started by sharks that have sprung up because they can bang something up on kindle for someone and take a percentage without doing anything. Mostly I buy from long established epubs I know have a name. I do buy based on publisher, but I know I'm in the minority of buyers there.
 

dondomat

Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
225
I've seen many people here and elsewhere proudly announce their new releases from this epress or that, only to find a terrible cover hiding an error-riddled mess of first-drafty, beginner prose. Many of these places can't edit and wouldn't know poor writing if it pinched their bums in the sunshine. Some writers may have great ideas and great story-telling abilities but can't spell or tell the difference between passive and active construction or recognize subject/verb agreements errors. If a writer hasn't advanced to the point to fix these things in her own prose, she's not going to see the problems in other people's. So those ebooks from that crappy so-called publisher seem okay.

I think, that to some extent this can be an issue with all publishers, especially if the author is not a star. For example, this is what Richard Laymon writes in his splendidly bitter bio A Writer's Tale:

"Some aspiring writers think they don't really need to know proper usage of the language.
They think that whatever miserable errors they make will be fixed by an editor.
Wrong.
Most editors (especially here in the U.S.), know less than the writers.
If your story should somehow end up on the desk of a good editor, he isn't likely to fix the
writing for you. The rare, good editor would be so disgusted by your crappy writing that
all you'd get is a rejection slip.
Chances are, however, that your manuscript will be read by a lousy editor. Such an editor
might accept badly written material simply because he doesn't know any better."

Dean Koontz has also shared in the last years his quota of sad/funny stories about working with editors of the 60's - 70's paperback houses.

And I myself am in a possession of a first edition of the fantastic Philip Kerr, which illustrates that the UK is not immune to these dangers, where there are sentences that are totally falling apart. I hope all that's fixed in the new editions. The book is A Philosophical Investigation, BTW. Like a cyber-punkish Iain Banks.

So, one has to really keep learning one's craft on all levels and also learn to be able to defend one's writing decisions, with authority, to the editor. Which, of course, includes picking publishers where editors respond to reason.
 
Last edited: