The Latest SFWA Controversy

Wordcaster

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This controversy has gotten me to look at my own reading habits. I was actually troubled by the disproportionate amount of male authors I had read and reviewed in the last year. Perhaps there are genres where this makes sense, but my tastes in sf are in no way particular to gender stereotypes. If there's any silver lining, I for one intend on seeking out more female authors and authors with diverse backgrounds.
 

Roxxsmom

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My conclusions from all this are: the editor does not read the stuff that they run in the bulletin, or she honestly didn't think it would be construed as disrespectful and elicit controversy, or she knew it was going to and didn't care.

Any of these seems problematic to me. But I don't know the details of what the editor's specific jobs are here. Scalzi's apology made it sounds like she is supposed to pass things unless he specifically told her not to.
 

JChandlerOates

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Was anyone really SURPRISED at this? Pick two random SFF writers and give them a soapbox to speak their mind. What do you expect would ensue?
I'd expect to be bored or offended.
OTOH, writing a column seems like it would be a hard thing to do.
 

slhuang

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Was anyone really SURPRISED at this? Pick two random SFF writers and give them a soapbox to speak their mind. What do you expect would ensue?
I'd expect to be bored or offended.
OTOH, writing a column seems like it would be a hard thing to do.

Actually, I read a good number of blogs by scifi writers, and they're quite informative and interesting. Not all SFF writers have column-writing skills, but many do.
 

Mr Flibble

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Was anyone really SURPRISED at this? Pick two random SFF writers and give them a soapbox to speak their mind. What do you expect would ensue?
I'd expect to be bored or offended.
OTOH, writing a column seems like it would be a hard thing to do.

HUGELY surprised. Every male SFF writer I've met or interacted with personally has been fabulous, or at the very least, accommodating and not dismisive (and mostly charming and funny and not boring while they aren't being offensive). So this was a hell of a shock tbh. And writing a column without being...well, they're writers, aren't they?

Just because it's not boring, doesn't mean you have to go to the other extreme....

ETA: I pick Sam Sykes and Chuck Wendig. Man I'd love to be a fly on that wall. Be hilarious.
 
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Captcha

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It's been taken by someone who's on his way out of the job anyway, and who has essentially admitted to not reading the newsletter before it was published, not to reading it and thinking this was a good idea.

I don't know how the SFWA operates, but in my experience with similar organizations, people elected to rotating presidencies are often figureheads more than effective managers. It may be something that keeps him busy, but it'd be like the Queen 'taking responsibility' for British foreign policy. Very nice, but not exactly a guarantee of future reform.

If the editor, like Scalzi, didn't read the bulletin, then I hope she's not actually being paid to be an editor, since, you know... reading. Pretty basic part of the job. If she did read it and thought it was a good idea, then she apparently has very poor judgment. People with poor judgment shouldn't be in a job that requires good judgment. So she either needs to improve her judgment or find another job.

I'm not saying she's not a lovely lady, or a good writer or whatever else. But she fell down on the job, and a professional organization needs to find out why she was so unprofessional.
 

Buffysquirrel

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I'm not comfortable with all this speculation about what the editor thought or did.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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Was anyone really SURPRISED at this? Pick two random SFF writers and give them a soapbox to speak their mind. What do you expect would ensue?
I'd expect to be bored or offended.
OTOH, writing a column seems like it would be a hard thing to do.

This is veering into RYFW territory. Please respect your fellow writers, including the ones who write SFF.
 

DeleyanLee

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If the editor, like Scalzi, didn't read the bulletin, then I hope she's not actually being paid to be an editor, since, you know... reading. Pretty basic part of the job. If she did read it and thought it was a good idea, then she apparently has very poor judgment. People with poor judgment shouldn't be in a job that requires good judgment. So she either needs to improve her judgment or find another job.

Or, she wasn't certain, sent it to her publisher for a final decision and got the okay and ran with it on his word.

Having done the editor job for a large group along the same line, I faced that decision many times in my 3 years doing it. There were several pieces that I thought were on the line and I had higher ups who were supposed to make that call. If they didn't do their part of the job, then they are the ones to take the responsibility when the call was wrong.

We don't know how that job works, what responsibilities are whose and who has final decisions on publications.

I also don't see where finding more people to point fingers at is helpful. The base problem--the fact that such an attitude got official recognition--is what needs to be dealt with on all levels of the organization. That's an internal thing, and all most of us can do is sit back, be patient and see what SFWA decides to do about it. Then we make our own judgements on our future involvement with the group.
 

Mr Flibble

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I'm not comfortable with all this speculation about what the editor thought or did.

I'm very comfortable with blaming the people who actually made the comments, because ultimately it was them,not anyone else, who said it. Better than blaming someone (the editor) who we don't know what they could or could not have done about it
 

zanzjan

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Was anyone really SURPRISED at this? Pick two random SFF writers and give them a soapbox to speak their mind. What do you expect would ensue?
I'd expect to be bored or offended.

I was surprised, and no, I wouldn't expect that from picking any two random SFF writers. The vast majority of people in the field are thoughtful and interesting.

Actually, I read a good number of blogs by scifi writers, and they're quite informative and interesting. Not all SFF writers have column-writing skills, but many do.

^ This.

HUGELY surprised. Every male SFF writer I've met or interacted with personally has been fabulous, or at the very least, accommodating and not dismisive (and mostly charming and funny and not boring while they aren't being offensive). So this was a hell of a shock tbh.

^More this.

ETA: I pick Sam Sykes and Chuck Wendig. Man I'd love to be a fly on that wall. Be hilarious.

I pick Warren Ellis and William Gibson.

It's been taken by someone who's on his way out of the job anyway, and who has essentially admitted to not reading the newsletter before it was published, not to reading it and thinking this was a good idea.

However he did say he should have read it before giving it the okay, but had only cursorily skimmed it. That seems like an appropriate admission of responsibility. And he is on his way out, and could very easily have decided to keep his head low and let the new guy deal with the whole mess, but he didn't. There are a lot of things that could have been done better, and sooner, but at least there seems to be a genuine interest in doing better going forward.

I don't know how the SFWA operates, but in my experience with similar organizations, people elected to rotating presidencies are often figureheads more than effective managers.

Possibly part of the process of fixing what's broken in SFWA is understanding the internal structure better. That said, Scalzi's tenure as President oversaw a lot of other positive changes. I have to believe, from that, that there is a real extent to which the President affects the direction and culture of the organization.

I'm not comfortable with all this speculation about what the editor thought or did.

I agree with this, especially as Ms. Rabe has not, as far as I know, commented publicly on what happened from her own side of things. It's also hard to know what tangential circumstances outside her control may have contributed to this. For example, how much material is actually submitted to the Bulletin? Given that I saw somewhere posted that the unfortunate "Barbie" comments were added to the article last issue to pad out the article, maybe the Bulletin lacks sufficient good material that they have to kind of scrape the bottom of the barrel? We don't know. If so, that maybe should be a big part of the discussion about what the Bulletin can and should be going forward, and how to get it there.

The Bulletin thing is only one part of a larger conversation that needs to happen in fandom about entrenched sexism. It's starting to happen around cosplayers, and around convention behavior. It's starting to be noticed in ToCs, and yes, in cover art. I do think we're moving forward. This was an abrupt and disappointing step backwards, no doubt, but it's only a fail if no one takes it up as an opportunity to move forward again and do better.
 

Andrhia

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This was an abrupt and disappointing step backwards, no doubt, but it's only a fail if no one takes it up as an opportunity to move forward again and do better.

I'm not even sure I'd call it a step backwards so much as suddenly everyone taking notice of an area that hadn't taken a step forward along with the rest of us. (I know, I know, semantics.)
 

zanzjan

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I'm not even sure I'd call it a step backwards so much as suddenly everyone taking notice of an area that hadn't taken a step forward along with the rest of us.

Yeah, I can go with that.
 

AW Admin

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Was anyone really SURPRISED at this? Pick two random SFF writers and give them a soapbox to speak their mind. What do you expect would ensue?
I'd expect to be bored or offended.

You might think lumping all writers of a category together intimating that they're boring is acceptable.

You'd be wrong. Don't do it again.
 

articshark

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So I have been reading more about this both on twitter and on other people's blogs.

I do think swfa is doing some things right. Taking ownership of the problem. Starting a committee to, hopefully, make sure this doesn't happen again. And although I would like to see the editor face some consequences- here I admit I have ZERO knowledge about the inner workings of a magazine editor's job and gatekeeping role so she could maybe not be the ultimate person responsible for authorizing the offensive content... or she could be, I did read that one person was temporarily suspended from being able to post on the sfwa forums.

So several things have happened to help renew my faith that should a trifecta of goodness happens to allow me to qualify for membership, I would seriously consider joining.

On another note, I was more than alarmed at the blog post of the person suspended. But more, I was shocked at the comments of the people chiming in. Lots of misogynistic talk. It was pretty crazy. What I did like, though, was some anonymous poster who refuted some of the suspended posters allegations AND there were no death/rape/lets eat your eyeball threats from said anonymous posters. Good guys FTW.

Not to give any foot traffic to said suspended posters blog voxday.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-dangerous-vision-of-sfwa.html given his views, I am thinking he needs to be permanently banned and allowed to use his blog as his only legitimate platform to spread his hate of women, minorities and others.
 
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Andrhia

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On another note, I was more than alarmed at the blog post of the person suspended. But more, I was shocked at the comments of the people chiming in. Lots of misogynistic talk. It was pretty crazy.

Oh, that guy. He's the one who inspired Scalzi's awesome fundraiser, if you didn't know. As above, it's disheartening he got any votes at all in his blessedly failed run for SFWA president. But at least he didn't win (whew). ...Best to consider him a troll and move on.
 

Phaeal

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That's right. Opponents have gone BLIND from his legendary AWESOMENESS!
 

Jess Haines

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I wrote in the John and Rachel, spoke up on the SFWA forum, and put up an initial post with my thoughts on my blog over the weekend.

I have since read many of the responses, both the ones on the forum and elsewhere on the internet. I'll be adding a second post clarifying my call for change.

I think education is needed here, desperately. I don't have a lot of time to get into deep discussion before the office firewall comes up, but I did want to chime in.
 

Mr Flibble

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Not to give any foot traffic to said suspended posters blog, given his views, I am thinking he needs to be permanently banned and allowed to use his blog as his only legitimate platform to spread his hate of women, minorities and others.

Hmm, I know I'm supposed to RYFW, but some things go beyond that.

So he's whining that women whine? Doesn't that make him a woman?
We're too traditional, yet not traditional enough?
And if a woman asks for more respectful language, that's fascism, but if he tells women to STFU it's...not?

*strokes chinbeard*

I'm seeing some serious logicfail here.

This person needs a brain service stat, maybe check he has one while they're at it, with a change of fluids and someone needs to see to his brakepads before he has an accident.


ETA: In the interests of finding out who this wingnut is, I found this...:D
 
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Roxxsmom

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I'm not comfortable with all this speculation about what the editor thought or did.

Yes, and lest I sounded too harsh with my own comments, I am not saying the person in question should be tossed under the bus, and I think it is correct for the person at the helm to step up to the plate and protect his or her subordinates, regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.

As an outsider, I really don't know what is expected of the editor in this situation or why these decisions were made. Hopefully, there will be a change in the editorial process in the future, though, that will make it harder for these kinds of things to happen.

As above, it's disheartening he got any votes at all in his blessedly failed run for SFWA president. But at least he didn't win (whew). ...Best to consider him a troll and move on.

It is indeed disheartening. How close did he come to winning? Regardless of how one feels about "traditional values" and all that, he seems to go beyond any political leanings and to actually be mentally ill. How can anyone take him seriously?
 
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Alessandra Kelley

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Isn't that the man who argued that women's rights were evil, that women working was worse than rape, and that women's rights to vote should be rescinded, not just in SFWA but in all actual governmental elections?

I heard that there was a writers' site that supported his SFWA candidacy. Yikes.
 

amergina

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Isn't that the man who argued that women's rights were evil, that women working was worse than rape, and that women's rights to vote should be rescinded, not just in SFWA but in all actual governmental elections?

I heard that there was a writers' site that supported his SFWA candidacy. Yikes.

I think that writer's site was the Write Agenda. They pretty much hate SFWA, AbsoluteWrite, Writer Beware, etc.
 

Captcha

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I'm not comfortable with all this speculation about what the editor thought or did.

I was uncomfortable when I started, to be honest. I felt like I was picking on someone who hadn't, herself, done anything wrong. But my hesitation is pretty much gone.

Part of the reason it's gone is because I realized I was giving this woman the benefit of the doubt because she's a woman. I'm not sure why I was doing that, but if I rewrite this scenario as a situation in which two male writers create this piece and it's approved by a male editor, I feel as if the editor is almost as culpable as the original authors. I think it's the job of an editor to point out to writers when they're saying things that are bigoted and/or ridiculous, and if a male editor failed to do that I would assume that it was because he didn't really object to what they were saying. I think it's also the editor's job to oversee the direction of the publication.

Sure, maybe the editor here was overridden by someone higher up, but no one involved in the situation has suggested that, have they? Scalzi said he barely read the articles, so that doesn't sound like he was issuing orders to print them over the editor's wishes. Has anyone else said anything to suggest the editor wanted these articles pulled and was unable to get the job done?

I agree that we shouldn't speculate about what the editor thought - that's why I want the editor to publicly explain what she thought. What was her thought process? Where did this go off the rails? And I'm not really speculating about what she did. I'm more concerned about what she didn't do. As far as I can see, she didn't edit. I wonder why not?