Christianity in a Fantasy World?

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Mr. Mask

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Aside from Narnia, I don't think I've heard of anyone adding Christianity to a fictional world. Even with Narnia's case, Christ is a lion called Aslan, and allusions to God or Christianity are similarly disguised (admittedly, it wasn't intended as an allegory, at first).

This is something I've been curious about. Is it necessary to veil, rename, alter, and be generally subtle about Christian elements? If The Lord of the Rings had direct references to a Christian religion, would it have ruined the book?

The main concerns which come to mind, is the fear of being sacrilegious (that's pretty scary), the fear of offending a lot of people (less scary, but pretty bad), and financial failure (zOMG!).


Regardless, I think it would be an interesting thing to discuss. Whether it's sacrilegious, whether outcry against it would be grand, and whether it would bomb or not be picked up by any notably publisher. What are your thoughts?
 

thothguard51

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Various religions, and not just Christianity, are on display in many fantasy and SF books...

Look at Dune...
 

Mr. Mask

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Isn't Dune just meant to be in the future? I don't know a lot about it. It's interesting how often religion is a part of sci-fi novels, though.

Do you know of any particular examples of real world religions in fantasy books?
 

Calla Lily

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There's a Christian fantasy series called Dragon Keepers Chronicles by Donita K Paul. I haven't read it, but I understand that it's heavy-handed.

I've read a couple of Stephen R Lawhead's books, and he's a good writer and not too hard with the sledgehammer.

John Olson writes some Christian fantasy, and they're good but, again, heavy-handed.

GP Taylor's Shadowmancer was billed as a "Christian" answer to Harry Potter. There are not enough eyeroll smiles in the world to insert here to convey my opinion of both that characterization of it and HP, and for the writing. It was... less than well-crafted.

Madeleine L'Engel's time trilogy books, OTOH, didn't pound Jesus into the reader.

So, in case I haven't poured enough of my opinionated opinions in this post :), my issue with C-fantasy is how all the books, to some degree, shove that religion down the reader's throats. (I have the same type of issue with Pullman's His Dark Materials books.)
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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The Deryni books by Katherine Kurtz use the Christian religion, as opposed to a made-up religion.

Any Fantasy book using magic that also wants to use Christianity has to make some adjustments, IMO. My WIP has magic as a common thing so Christianity has been modified to be fine with that. Otherwise the Church comes across as either oppressive to people having perfectly 'normal' abilities or utterly out of touch with reality.

ETA: Dune is, indeed, Science Fiction based far in the future and not Fantasy.
 
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Myrealana

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In The Elenium trilogy by David Eddings, the Elene religion is a very close analogue to Christianity. Though, it's not necessarily portrayed in a very positive light in comparision to other religions in the world.
 

Mr. Mask

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That's a good list of sources.

Thank you all. I'll start checking those out, to see what I think of them.
 

frimble3

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I think the basic problem is that if you're writing about a fantasy world, and things are different there, why would they develop Christianity, and it's history, in exactly the same way as it developed in our world?
'Christ' is a pretty specific word, with Greek roots. 'Judea' is a specific place, filled with Romans and Jews. It's all very anchored in our world.
Which is why so many fantasy books have religions similar to Christianity, but not called Christianity. It's not fear of repercussions, it's world-building.
 

Marian Perera

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In Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Dart, Blessed Elua was brought into being by Mary Magdalene's tears mixing with Jesus's blood.

My WIP is set in a fantasy world called Eden, where one land laid claim to the (long-dead) Tree of Life. The Church of that land is trying to revive it and thereby gain immortality. I don't mention Christianity, but there's one reference to it - the antagonist of the story has a cross and serpent as the emblem of his house.
 

The Hobbit

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I struggled with this myself. I have just recently finished writing and self-published my first Christian Fantasy novel called From the Ruin of Extinction and I debated on how heavy-handed to make it. I've only had three people read it so far and all three said they think I balanced the line of Fantasy and Christianity wonderfully, so I apparently did something right.
 

Nateskate

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What are your objectives? Once those are defined, then seek the best way to achieve them.

I'm highly critical by nature - in that I will automatically hold any novel that is theological in nature, to a far higher standard than a story with subtle Christian elements.

Jesus captured the Father's love and value for humans in the story of the Prodigal Son without once using religious words (See Luke 15): "God, Satan, Heaven, Hell" are never mentioned. The cross is never mentioned.

A story can be extremely spiritual without being overtly religious. And which of the 1000 points do you want to make? Is it about spiritual warfare? Blessings and curses? Sowing and reaping? Of do you feel like writing a parallel story like Narnia - where there's a God a savior, a promised second coming ...etc.

For me, I learned a great deal by studying Tolkien. His books can lead to an entire college major. In his essay he compares all fantasy to arising from a need to express the core elements of the greatest story ever told, speaking about the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus.

Now, when he wrote, he wrote nothing overtly Christian. There are elements in his stories that cause us to ponder if we want too. ....All of the key members of LOTR experienced a form of death and resurrection: Gandalf died battling a Satan figure, the Balrog - and he is later resurrected as Gandalf the white.

Aragorn had to go through the Paths of the Dead before coming as the promised king of promise. Frodo had to take up his cross (the ring) and carry it to the mountain of doom. And he experienced a type of death when poisoned by Shelob.

And one of the most amazing things to me was that there were more deep spiritual conversations on the LOTR chat boards than on many Christian boards.

It deeply changed my views on how to effectively make a point in a novel.
 

John Oberon

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The author of Narnia also wrote a science fiction trilogy with pretty strong Christian elements: Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength. Maybe you want to to take a drink of those too.
 

robjvargas

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Y'know, it occurs to me that Milton's "Paradise Lost" epic poems could qualify as fantasy.

*Very* Christian, those.

In addition to Narnia, CS Lewis wrote a series called The Space Trilogy. That's got very thinly disguised Christian themes in it also.
 

Goldberry

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I've always loved J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Madeleine L'engle, George Macdonald, etc... I really want to write Christian fantasy, but I'm wondering if there are any Christian publishers who are open to it after all the controversy over Harry Potter.

I had to teach a class on Tolkien in college for grad school, and it was pretty darned fun! If you're interested in him from a religious viewpoint, a great writer is Joseph Pearce. His books are from a Catholic viewpoint, but I think any Christian could appreciate them.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0898708257/?tag=absowrit-20

So far in fantasy, the Catholic Church seems to have gotten a bad rap. In the Deryni series, the church is against the ones who have powers, and the priests come across as oppressive. In Philip Pullman's books, too, there's kind of an alternative Catholic Church in his parallel world that's oppressive. Don't even get me started on Marion zimmer Bradley! Many of her Christian characters are ignorant and ridiculous, oppressing the poor pagans. It would just be nice to read a fantasy novel where Christians were portrayed in a positive light and not oppressing anyone!

I think that overt references to Christianity only work in fantasy if it's an alternate history or parallel world.
 

Literateparakeet

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My favorite book is Til We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis. It is a retelling of the Psyche and Cupid story. I don't know if that "technically" qualifies as fantasy, but it isn't real :).

It is an amazing book. I am constantly surprised that more people haven't heard of it.
 
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wilchris

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My WIP is a YA Paranormal, set in Thailand, and firmly rooted in Buddhist beliefs, Thai folklore and superstitions, especially Thai ghosts and spirits, of which there are many.
 

fivetoesten

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It is an amazing book. I am constantly surprised that more people haven't heard of it

It's been quite a number of years since I've read it, and I wouldn't call it my favorite, but that is a great book. Very vivid imagery.
 

Literateparakeet

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It's been quite a number of years since I've read it, and I wouldn't call it my favorite, but that is a great book. Very vivid imagery.

Awesome to talk to someone who has read it!

One of my favorite parts is when Orwal asks her tutor, "So the Gods are not fair?"

And he responds, "Oh my no, my child. Where would we be if they were?"

Paraphrased. :)
 

aricin

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Christian Fantasy

Great discussion,

My first novel, The Stormmaster Prophecy, is a Christian fantasy. I plan on having a series of 5 books when all done. I simply set the novel on another planet that was evangelized by a starship chaplain that survived his ship's crash. I tried not to be too heavy handed, but I think at times I was. However, I just tried to write a good story, not worry about the rest.

As far as Christian publishers, I've found some resistance to the idea. Agents also, weren't too keen on trying to sell it, even though I was told it was a good story and the writing was good as well.

Self-publishing is the way to go I think with this type of book. However, others may have better luck.

Aricin
 

NinjaFingers

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I'm not Christian and still enjoy Stephen Lawhead's work. Most of it is Christian historical fantasy - in some cases closer to magic realism and out and out fantasy (Byzantium, for example, would definitely count as magic realism to me).

But he has also written some pretty decent and overtly Christian science fiction and a couple of series in secondary worlds...but they aren't as good, for whatever reason. He seems to write better when keeping a grounding in reality.

I think the test of ANY piece of "religious" fiction is whether people who don't follow that faith can read and enjoy it.
 

J.S. Clark

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My first self-published novel was an apocalyptic fantasy of sorts told from a Christian perspective, but I did run into problems in doing so. As a previous poster said, Christianity is rooted in our world. For example, sorcery is kind of opposite of God. It gives power in actions and human effort. It's self-power. Now if you say, the power comes from God, then doesn't that make Angels and all life for that matter, magical? You want to do that, fine, but you're really redefining an existing term. It's like telling a Christian story in an alternate world, where adultery is really good.

In my story, I left out magic, but I still had to ignore certain parts of scripture which is admittedly inconsistent, but in fantasy its not so odd. I mean anytime a human is writing a story in which God acts directly or indirectly is a work of fantasy. Amish stories are fantasies if God intersects the story.

But that's the way the story came. For my current WIP, I'm using a more original religion so I don't have to think as carefully about things. But it kind of frees me to look at the basic message. When you get too specific, people can strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Someone mentioned the prodigal son, that was great, how about the parable of the embezzler? No mention of God or salvation, and the main character is a dishonest cheat.
 

aricin

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I agree

I think the test of ANY piece of "religious" fiction is whether people who don't follow that faith can read and enjoy it.

I totally agree. First and foremost it should entertain. Isn't that the reason for fiction. Once you establish that you're set. It doesn't mean you have to compromise your beliefs, however.

Aricin
 

Goldberry

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I'm not Christian and still enjoy Stephen Lawhead's work. Most of it is Christian historical fantasy - in some cases closer to magic realism and out and out fantasy (Byzantium, for example, would definitely count as magic realism to me).

But he has also written some pretty decent and overtly Christian science fiction and a couple of series in secondary worlds...but they aren't as good, for whatever reason. He seems to write better when keeping a grounding in reality.

I think the test of ANY piece of "religious" fiction is whether people who don't follow that faith can read and enjoy it.

I read some of Stephen Lawhead's first novels, and they were pretty amateurish. "The Hall of the Dragon King" was so awful, it was years before I read anything else by him. He obviously got a lot better as time went by. I enjoyed "The Paradise War," where the walls between our world and the Celtic Otherworld grow thin.
 

justanovel

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I think the basic problem is that if you're writing about a fantasy world, and things are different there, why would they develop Christianity, and it's history, in exactly the same way as it developed in our world?
'Christ' is a pretty specific word, with Greek roots. 'Judea' is a specific place, filled with Romans and Jews. It's all very anchored in our world.
Which is why so many fantasy books have religions similar to Christianity, but not called Christianity. It's not fear of repercussions, it's world-building.

That's the point. Are we sure that what Lewis or Tolkien wanted to do was only creating a world with christian rules? That's false! They were always saying that in creating a fantasy world you have the duty to respect the borders dividing Good from Evil. They were convinced that what was important was to create a world respecting the rules written in the deep roots of nature. Believing that they are created by God or not is not what they cared for. The real point is not stating if a book is subtly christian or else, but the key point of every allegory and every fantasy world created is if it is moral or not...obviously it has to be understood what is moral and what not...but that is what Lewis and Tolkien wanted to do and to talk about. For example, J.K. Rowling choosed to write a book about a secret Group of men that has a secret power that only few elected people can use; that group of people spends its time to become stronger and stronger and to prevent common people from knowing what is real life and what is happening in the real world, the one dominated by magic; Rowling also states that it is good to violate rules, if the end is good (see the first book of the series)...the question here is: did Rowling create a moral world or did she create a world ruled by immoral laws? What's moral? I'm not answering to that questions, i'm just suggesting that the key point of the books of Lewis and Tolkien was that they wanted to write first of all moral fantasy books, and second of all christian fantasy books (probably in their minds the two things were connected)...
 
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