Agents and "self"-publishing

That seems weird to me. It also feels less like self-pub and more like lit-agencies taking on publishing responsibilities. But, I'm no industry expert. Maybe there is room for an agent in self-pubbing?

I believe there was a discussion about this sort of thing a while back - maybe someone else can remember it enough to find it. But the agents acted as publishing 'mentors', I guess you would call it, helping the self-publisher with the publishing end of things. Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to it at the time

I could see an agent being useful to a self-publishing writer fo the sake of negotiating film rights or something - though doubt this would be something most self-publishers would have to think about.

But the idea of an agent who also does self-publishing "services", for a fee of course, it too much of a conflict of interest to my mind. How could you trust the agent to make a real effort to get a publisher to buy your book, when they can probably make cash right now by saying "sorry, nobody is biting. But hey, if you'd care to write me a big cheque I'll publish it!"?

I don't find it as suspicious as all that. There are some pretty big legit agencies realising that they need to find their own way in this brave new world. I don't have all the details, but I think most of them work more in a royalities on the back end, not payment up front model. And I don't think they push self publishing as a first option (at least not the legit ones). Why would they when they can make MUCH more money through advances from the Big 5?

The quality agents will still do what is best for their clients, because that is their job. And now at least those books that they never were able to sell might actually make them (and their authors) a bit of cash.

I grant you it's a very fine line, and a tricky one to navigate, but I understand it and approve quite frankly. I think agents are going to become more and more like managers as time passes, not only selling their clients' work, but helping them navigate and make choices now that there are so many.

Several agencies have assisted self-publishing arms, now. The "assistance" comes into play with things like editing, covers, metadata, etc - if the writer wants that assistance - and the agent still gets the 15% commission, if they provide that assistance.

There's no check writing to the agent/agency, and the agent / agency isn't listed as the publisher. The writer is still the one publishing the book, but the agent/agency helps make sure they get a return on it.

If the author wants to go it alone, they can do that, too, and the agent will focus on subsidiary rights.

For example, if I wanted to self-publish a novel (which I'm seriously considering with a particular title), I could get editing help from my agency - which I need because I have some perceptual issues with on-screen writing. But, since I've already got a viable cover, I don't need one designed. The agency helps with the technical side of things - also something I can't do easily.

The agent/agency gets their 15% based on sales of the novel, just like they would if it had sold to a commercial publisher.

However, most books by agented writers still have a better shot with a commercial publisher - the agent certainly has a better shot of getting paid if they can sell it to one.

I'm not thrilled by agents opening their own publishers, really, but have no problem with agents helping their clients self-publish if the client wants to.

aikigypsy said:

(Should this go under "ask the agent" or "self-publishing"? I don't know. Moderators, please move it as needed!)

I read this article about David Mamet self-publishing this morning. Much of it is the same old story, but it brought up the murky relationship between agents and self-publishing, which I find a little confusing, especially when those agents are using "self-publishing" services.

This model is very different from most of the self-publishing I've read about here, in which the author does most of the publishing work, and might hire someone for cover design and/or copy editing.

Is it really self-publishing, when there's an agent etc. involved? If not, what do we call it?

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Call it nonsense, and run away screaming as fast as you can.

I'm with Stacia. I don't like it when they open a publishing arm, but I don't mind at all putting authors in touch with good editors, artists, and so on. In fact, I'd definitely do this if I self-published (something I've considered for a title, too). I think finding a quality freelancer on your own isn't an easy thing to do. Having someone who can point me in the direction of someone trustworthy and talented is worth 15% in my book.

I've noticed Kristin Nelson taking on self-pubbed authors. She's been blogging about the benefits of it since last year. Here are a couple of posts:

Here is the model the Nelson Literary Agency was approaching last year (I don't know what they're doing currently):

http://nelsonagency.com/the-rapidly-evolving-role-of-agent/
http://nelsonagency.com/talking-nlas-dlp/

And here are some more recent posts:

http://nelsonagency.com/new-buzz-word-the-hybrid/
http://nelsonagency.com/indie-author-agent-partners-thought-2/
http://nelsonagency.com/indie-agent-partners-thought-1/

aikigypsy said:

Is it really self-publishing, when there's an agent etc. involved? If not, what do we call it?

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It seems as though they're not acting as an agent. Wouldn't that be silly if they turned around and tried to make a deal with me to publish my own book?

It sounds like they are offering mentoring and promotion help, which are areas where self-published authors either can't or won't do. In that case, they can perform a valuable service, and do it under the flag of an established agency, rather than a 'self-publishing' company whose reputations are already in the toilet (you know who they are).

Well, I signed such an agreement with my agency this week. Nobody has mentioned it yet, but part of the deal is help with marketing: they say they they can get their authors on plum sites they wouldn't be able to achieve on their own, and that they have a network of contacts who will help with promotion. That in my eye is worth 15%. And after three years I can opt out of the contract if I want to.

As for the "conflict of interests" -- as long as the agent is not the publisher I don't see any, as he/she earns the same 15% no matter which course is taken; and as the self-publishing route is riskier than an advance-paying trade publisher, I would agree with Toothpaste that if anything, they'd be biased towards a trade deal.

Like others have said, it seems like a pretty serious conflict of interest for my agent and my publisher to be the same entity. The agent's job is to get me as great a deal as possible from the publisher, and where's their incentive to do that if they (potentially) make more money by getting me a lousy deal?

But that said, helping a writer self-publish well (i.e. with a good cover, good editing, etc.) seems like a useful service, especially if they're doing it for 15% off the back end. Normally the writer would have to pay for those services up-front or forego them entirely.

jjdebenedictis said:

Like others have said, it seems like a pretty serious conflict of interest for my agent and my publisher to be the same entity. The agent's job is to get me as great a deal as possible from the publisher, and where's their incentive to do that if they (potentially) make more money by getting me a lousy deal?
.

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Not sure of you were replying to my post, but to make it clear: that's not the case. It's agent-assisted publishing, in which I hold the rights throughout.

In most cases, agents with such a programme take this course either with out-of-print books (as with mine), or with books no publisher would accept but which they, the agents, love and believe in enough to help the author self-publish. I haven't heard of any agent who takes on new writers only in order to help them self-publish. It's almost entirely for books that can't be placed anyway.

So, no conflict of interest.

Is the below listing on Amazon typical of an agent who has assisted or actually published a client or author? I removed the real name.

• File Size: 486 KB
• Print Length: 296 pages
• Page Numbers Source ISBN: 1483907228
• Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited
• Publisher: (Agent and Agency Name here) (March 17, 2013)
• Sold by: Amazon Digital Services, Inc.
• Language: English
• ASIN: B00BWBVTUQ
• Lending: Enabled
• Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #417,245 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)

aruna said:

In most cases, agents with such a programme take this course either with out-of-print books (as with mine), or with books no publisher would accept but which they, the agents, love and believe in enough to help the author self-publish. I haven't heard of any agent who takes on new writers only in order to help them self-publish. It's almost entirely for books that can't be placed anyway.

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I wasn't replying to you, but the scenario you've described--finding a home for books where there is no other (paying) home they could go to--would be fine as far as I'm concerned.

Basically, whatever an agency is doing, the agent should only make money when the writer is making money, and only in fair proportion to how much money the writer is making. Otherwise, the relationship stops being symbiotic and becomes parasitic.

triceretops said:

Is the below listing on Amazon typical of an agent who has assisted or actually published a client or author? I removed the real name.

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The links go straight to the actual book. (Those blue "enabled" links.)

Cyia said:

The links go straight to the actual book. (Those blue "enabled" links.)

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Thanks for that. Removed. I'm a careless dolt. As usual.

triceretops said:

Is the below listing on Amazon typical of an agent who has assisted or actually published a client or author? I removed the real name.

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I would think that Publisher: (Agent and Agency Name here) (March 17, 2013)
makes that clear. Unfortunately, I don't know any agent-assisted authors so we could check what the listing says in those cases.

aruna said:

I would think that Publisher: (Agent and Agency Name here) (March 17, 2013)
makes that clear. Unfortunately, I don't know any agent-assisted authors so we could check what the listing says in those cases.

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Guess I better out myself--that is my agent, and I've never seen her listed like that on Amazon. I only found it by putting her name in the Amazon search bar. Now, if she really is setting up shop as a self publisher, it makes me none and I kind of see it favorably. I sure would like to ask her if this is the case. I had no idea. I'm not even sure if that author (the two books) is one of my stable mates or is right off the slush pile.

Something like this might become more commonplace--there are agencies that are doing this now, correct? Personally, I would like to know how it works. Hell, I'm open to any and all options when the dust clears and I've come to the end of my sub trails.

tri

Tri, I just remembered this thread and this author. Her book is listed as Publisher: CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform (February 5, 2013)

If I were you I would certainly ask my agent what is going on.
I don't understand this:

Now, if she really is setting up shop as a self publisher, it makes me none and I kind of see it favorably.

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Why do you think you are no longer a self publisher? (assuming you have self-published---) Unless you have an agreement with your agent that she manages your books or publishes them, nothing in your status changes!

aruna said:

Tri, I just remembered this thread and this author. Her book is listed as Publisher: CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform (February 5, 2013)

If I were you I would certainly ask my agent what is going on.
I don't understand this:
Why do you think you are no longer a self publisher? (assuming you have self-published---) Unless you have an agreement with your agent that she manages your books or publishes them, nothing in your status changes!

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Clunky, age-old descriptor from the 60s. Makes me none means that it doesn't bother me. And yeah, I've self-pubbed one title--a backlist, so it's a reprint with some revamping. I think I will ask her about this, but not now because we're negotiating contract at the present.

tri