QUILTBAG general thread?

RichardGarfinkle

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*sigh* My mom still occasionally stays REALLY ignorant/stupid/upsetting things without understanding WHY they're ignorant/stupid/upsetting. One such moment occurred last night. Don't want to go into details, but I need to either figure out how to win an argument with someone who intimidates the hell out of me (that being Mom) or perfect my Death Glare to the point where she doesn't. Intimidate the hell out of me, that is.

There's always the face saving, "I must have misunderstood you, it sounded like you said..." tactic. Or it's variant the, "You know someone overhearing that might think you meant... which you couldn't possibly have meant."

That's assuming you want to leave a way out for the person you're talking to.
 

kuwisdelu

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Don't want to go into details, but I need to either figure out how to win an argument with someone who intimidates the hell out of me (that being Mom) or perfect my Death Glare to the point where she doesn't. Intimidate the hell out of me, that is.

Man, I suck at verbal exchanges. If you figure it out, let me know.
 

slhuang

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kuwi, you changed your avatar! I don't know who you are anymore! :eek:

;)

Carry on. I have nothing to add about dealing with people saying shitty things; I wish I did. :(
 

kuwisdelu

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kuwi, you changed your avatar! I don't know who you are anymore! :eek:

I said I'd change it when Evangelion 3.33 was released.

I might change it to another Asuka shot later. Plenty to choose from now that the movie's out on Blu-ray.
 

lastlittlebird

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I still miss the top-hat gif :p

Rhoda I felt like that with my father for a long time... but eventually I found he respected me more when I did speak up against things he was saying.
And I think I changed his mind about a few things. But it was very, very scary. And YMMV in terms of the reaction.
I guess it became easier for me when I realised he wanted me to like him as much as I wanted him to like me.... the power balance wasn't completely lopsided.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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I miss the top hat too. :(

Yeah, I think the thing is, she occasionally will make jokes or off-hand comments that are so much part of the local vernacular she doesn't realize is REALLY NOT FUNNY, OK? And then she gets all defensive and "free speech"-y. I like to think she knows better, but there's a weird power imbalance--like, I shouldn't be telling her off, because she raised me.
 

lastlittlebird

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If she has a right to free speech, you also have a right to not listen.
Maybe...every time she tells a joke like that, just turn away from her or maybe flatly say "that's not funny." but don't make a big deal out of it... if she's getting a negative reaction each time maybe she'll stop because of that.

I know it's easy to give advice online though (and it's not even great advice!) I'm sorry you have to deal with those kinds of jokes. :Hug2:
 

kuwisdelu

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I still miss the top-hat gif :p

I miss the top hat too. :(

It's not me with a top hat this time, but Asuka has a hat in this shot at least?

I like to think she knows better, but there's a weird power imbalance--like, I shouldn't be telling her off, because she raised me.

Pfft. I've been telling my parents off since I was able to speak.

IMO, if they're you're family, it's your responsibility to correct them. That they raised you to think for yourself, and that you're capable of speaking back to them with opinions you've reached by yourself should be a compliment to their parenting, not an insult.

Criticizing someone for "talking back" is false authority. It's an argument used by those who have no justification for their position when questioned.

The times are always a-changing, and any parent who doesn't realize this is an idiot.

Maybe I'm spoiled because when my own father confronts me with certain views, he's cognizant enough to condition them with "I may be old-fashioned and I grew up in a different generation but..." (and I admit my mother doesn't have that level of self-awareness and sometimes I wish she did).

But no child should be afraid of correcting their parents.

And moreover, no parents should be afraid of being corrected by their child. Rather, they should be proud.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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^See, I keep telling myself that, but it's a really hard paradigm to shake. I've been systematically trying to un-learn a lot of the superficial politeness that was (metaphorically) beaten in to me as a child of the South. Telling someone how you REALLY feel is not as important as making sure everyone around you is comfortable, and if someone in a position of authority over you--which includes anyone older than you--says something you don't like or even strongly disagree with, you either smile and nod, or quietly take them aside so you can suggest that maybe, possibly, they might consider this other point of view, if it's not too much trouble, and NEVER in front of other people because that would be humiliating.

I'm exaggerating, but only a little. Somehow my brother got out of it and moved to New York--and Mom constantly complains about she's sure he hates us all, because he plays Devil's Advocate a lot and isn't shy or polite with his opinions. I on the other hand? Tend to speak my mind only when I'm a little drunk.

Maybe I should drink more...
 

kuwisdelu

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and if someone in a position of authority over you--which includes anyone older than you--says something you don't like or even strongly disagree with, you either smile and nod, or quietly take them aside so you can suggest that maybe, possibly, they might consider this other point of view, if it's not too much trouble, and NEVER in front of other people because that would be humiliating.

IMO, authority is something that must be earned, and is entirely context-specific. If you have more experience with something than another person, then you are the authority on it. Age doesn't matter. Only experience does. Being older doesn't automatically grant you authority on a particular subject.

When it comes to matters of morality, things like "experience" can become less clear, and — I'd say — are often completely inconsequential. In some cases, "experience" simply comes down to empathy.

But, well, I'm someone who's hated the idea that adults automatically have more "authority" ever since I could speak, and have always rebelled against it.
 

Kim Fierce

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for me my problem isn't with telling my parents what I think . . . my dad passed away and we didn't agree on things but we still had debates, and my mom is more accepting.

My problem is with holding back my opinions on the very fine line that is my wife's mom! She doesn't agree with anyone being gay, but adores our child (who I gave birth to), puts him on her christmas cards, considers him her grandson . . . but then also doesn't really want my wife and I to be together at all? *brain freeze* In this case I do usually just walk away because I told my wife I would never make her choose between her mother and me, and I never will.
 

lastlittlebird

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And moreover, no parents should be afraid of being corrected by their child. Rather, they should be proud.

QFT

I know my father hated being challenged by anyone. He remains the only person who I know in my core really loved me, because I could see the way he struggled to overcome his anger whenever I challenged him.
Pride almost always won out over other emotions towards the end of his life and I love him for that.

It took a long time though. And a couple of periods in which we had very little contact.
There is never a simple way to change other people... you've just got to decide what you're willing to live with, and what you're not, and make that clear and hold to those beliefs.
You can't control other people, you can only control your own actions.
 

J.S.F.

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My problem is with holding back my opinions on the very fine line that is my wife's mom! She doesn't agree with anyone being gay, but adores our child (who I gave birth to), puts him on her christmas cards, considers him her grandson . . . but then also doesn't really want my wife and I to be together at all? *brain freeze* In this case I do usually just walk away because I told my wife I would never make her choose between her mother and me, and I never will.

---

Kim,

It's too bad you have to be in that position in the first place, but that's how things go.

My problem wasn't sexual so much, but racial. When I wanted to get married my mother really couldn't see me marrying a Japanese lady, even though I'd been living in Japan for quite a long time and had known a lot of women.

She liked my girlfriend, but didn't know if she could accept her. However, once she saw our first child (and he was really cute:)) she changed entirely. It also helped that my wife's parents are very, VERY nice people, and they welcomed my mother with open arms.

Her attitude to her dying day (she passed in 2007 at a very old age) was that I'd made the right choice. As for your wife's mom, perhaps she'll come around in time. Sexual attitudes like racial ones take time to change. Granted, it shouldn't make a difference, but it does. I cannot imagine how it was/is for you (me being a straight guy), but having dealt with racism half of my life here as well as anti-semitism in my own country, it has made me more aware of keeping an open mind about things. I wasn't always this open-minded, to be honest, but things and people change. It takes time.
 

Kim Fierce

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I hesitate to even write about it in a public forum...she has improved since our son was born (she didn't want us to have a child) and there are still times though when she claims I am the one who doesn't like her and seems to be trying to start drama. Fortunately my wife and I are both wise to this and just ignore even some hurtful situations.
 

Nonny

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Are we still doing introductions? I've been away for a little bit -- my LD GF and her family have been visiting this month! :) -- so am only now just catching up.

Brief intro, I ID as pansexual, Kinsey 4.5. I am married to my awesome partner, who is genderqueer. I am at this point questioning my own gender identity, but I don't think it is as quite a big deal for me as it is for my partner (somebody described it well; I have social dysphoria, not physical dysphoria). We are poly and have an open relationship, so I have my girlfriend that is living with us and a couple who are long-distance.

I write a lot of queer characters and themes and activism is pretty important to me. :)
 

Kim Fierce

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Hey Nonny!

I am going to post this here because I really don't know where else to post it. Today I got my most confusing review ever . . . 1 star, and apparently it is by a very paranoid writer. The review is for "The Divide, Book One: Uprising" and reviewer basically claims I stole his title. I feel sorry for this person.
 
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Nonny

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Uh. That's... bizarre. I could perhaps sympathize if it was a longer title, but it's... one word. And those are especially popular right now with dystopias. I don't even! o.o
 

buz

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Hey Nonny!

I am going to post this here because I really don't know where else to post it. Today I got my most confusing review ever . . . 1 star, and apparently it is by a very paranoid writer. The review is for "The Divide, Book One: Uprising" and reviewer basically claims I stole his title. I feel sorry for this person.

Kind of annoying to me, as someone who looks for reviews of things, when someone gives a review who reviews something like the shipping speed or the title or some other irrelevant thing instead of the book. :p But then, Amazon's not a terribly reliable review source, I guess. Blergh. That's obnoxious. :( (There are a few books called The Divide, le no?)
 

Roxxsmom

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Kind of annoying to me, as someone who looks for reviews of things, when someone gives a review who reviews something like the shipping speed or the title or some other irrelevant thing instead of the book. :p But then, Amazon's not a terribly reliable review source, I guess. Blergh. That's obnoxious. :( (There are a few books called The Divide, le no?)

If someone comments on stuff like that, I assume they didn't actually read the book :p

And the amazon reviews do suck. You have to comb through them to find anything insightful or useful sometimes.
 

J.S.F.

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Kind of annoying to me, as someone who looks for reviews of things, when someone gives a review who reviews something like the shipping speed or the title or some other irrelevant thing instead of the book. :p But then, Amazon's not a terribly reliable review source, I guess. Blergh. That's obnoxious. :( (There are a few books called The Divide, le no?)
---

Try Googling 'The Tower' and you'll come up with a LOT more. (Yeah, that was the title of my first novel). It got very confusing for my family and friends to sort through everything.

Kim, talent will win out. You're good, your reviewer...is just strange. 'Nuff said.
 

theaceofspades

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If we're still doing introductions, I'm Ace, I'm non-binary (not exactly sure what the right word is right now, and I'm also lazy enough that genderqueer or non-binary is close enough, but if I had to pick a more specific term, I probably identify most with genderfluid), and I'm aromantic asexual (awkwardly just realizing that if you shorten my username it's the same thing as slang for asexual, but whatever).


But yeah, that title thing is really bizarre. Lots of books with short titles have similar (or the same) names. Like, why post an entire review about it?
 

slhuang

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Welcome, aceofspades! :)

Kim, with regard to that reviewer, I don't even . . . bwuh . . . ?? I guess it's one of those throw-up-your-hands moments, but it sucks that it affects your Amazon rankings. At least there's no ego-bruising with "criticism" like that!

Your book's on my TBR list, by the way, though unfortunately I won't be able to review it because I'm publishing in the same genre in a few months. Amazon and its weird rules . . .