QUILTBAG general thread?

Ehlionney

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I'm getting to the point of just not caring about fictional LGBT relationships in tv/movies nowadays. Dead or psycho lesbians keep popping up, and now I'm just over shows/movies that try to put any kind of LGBT relationships.

I'm done with the very tired tropes, and I'm getting cynical over fictional works that starts including L/G relationships to the point of seeing such characters as minor throwaway characters and just not emotionally investing in non-major L/G characters in mainstream fiction anymore.

I would very very much recommend seeking out LGBT stories in webcomics then, honestly. Since webcomics are almost purely indie works but can get very high visibility, a lot of young LGBT creators have flocked to the medium as a way to tell queer stories without having to worry about pleasing editors/publishers/etc. And, contrary to outdated stereotypes about "comics," many creators are telling stories just as mature/detailed as anything you'll see on TV or in a book.

I feel pretty confident in saying that probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the webcomics I see are either by-queers-for-queers, or at least include diverse casts. I seriously am CONSTANTLY discovering that one of my favorite creators is a trans man, lesbian, pansexual dating a trans person, etc. Like, trust me, this is where the queer folk are at lol

My absolute top recommendation for someone just getting into the medium would have to be Always Human by Walkingnorth.

promo3_by_walkingnorth_d9xoe9l.jpg


It's a lesbian romance with sci-fi themes, and is ridiculously sugary-sweet with a high emphasis on the importance of communication in relationships. The storyline in a nutshell: in the future, people change body modifications like changing clothes, but there's a rare congenital disorder that makes some people's bodies reject the mods. The main characters are a professional graphic designer/animator who is obsessed with constantly changing her style, and a biomed student who can't use body mods at all. The designer falls in love with the other girl because she finds her simple beauty unique in a world where most people are flashy and exotic and always changing.
 
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Latina Bunny

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I would very very much recommend seeking out LGBT stories in webcomics then, honestly. Since webcomics are almost purely indie works but can get very high visibility, a lot of young LGBT creators have flocked to the medium as a way to tell queer stories without having to worry about pleasing editors/publishers/etc. And, contrary to outdated stereotypes about "comics," many creators are telling stories just as mature/detailed as anything you'll see on TV or in a book.

I feel pretty confident in saying that probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the webcomics I see are either by-queers-for-queers, or at least include diverse casts. I seriously am CONSTANTLY discovering that one of my favorite creators is a trans man, lesbian, pansexual dating a trans person, etc. Like, trust me, this is where the queer folk are at lol

My absolute top recommendation for someone just getting into the medium would have to be Always Human by Walkingnorth.

promo3_by_walkingnorth_d9xoe9l.jpg


It's a lesbian romance with sci-fi themes, and is ridiculously sugary-sweet with a high emphasis on the importance of communication in relationships. The storyline in a nutshell: in the future, people change body modifications like changing clothes, but there's a rare congenital disorder that makes some people's bodies reject the mods. The main characters are a professional graphic designer/animator who is obsessed with constantly changing her style, and a biomed student who can't use body mods at all. The designer falls in love with the other girl because she finds her simple beauty unique in a world where most people are flashy and exotic and always changing.

Ah, thank you for the rec! :) I'm reading through the first few chapters and I'm liking what I am reading so far.* Love the artstyle and the story is cute so far. Thank you so much! :D

I will keep on the lookout for more webcomics/indie comics. Any recs where to search for such material?

And, yes, I agree with you that comics are great for finding a nice variety of stories. I've been reading a few comics, Jem and the Holograms and LumberJanes, both of which have some sweet and cute lesbian subplots. I've also been reading sweet fanfics and occasional light hearted manga.

I love sweet, light, and cute, can't you tell, lol? ^_^

*(ETA: I have enjoyed a lot of it, but I am not one for the rainbow coalition concept, whether in fiction or in real life. Let's just say, I'm human and have my own biases and prejudices, and I have my own beliefs and stuff...)
 
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Ehlionney

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Ah, thank you for the rec! :) I'm reading through the first few chapters and I'm liking what I am reading so far. Love the artstyle and the story is cute so far. Thank you so much! :D

I will keep on the lookout for more webcomics/indie comics. Any recs where to search for such material?

And, yes, I agree with you that comics are great for finding a nice variety of stories. I've been reading a few comics, Jem and the Holograms and LumberJanes, both of which have some sweet and cute lesbian subplots. I've also been reading sweet fanfics and occasional light hearted manga.

I love sweet, light, and cute, can't you tell, lol? ^_^

Snailords is a pretty awesome dude to keep an eye on :) he's an ace, NB/trans guy Vietnamese-American who writes a few different series, mostly silly stuff with dark humor. Me recommending him is a veeeeery high praise because I generally hate dark humour/serious stories that don't take themselves seriously, but he just somehow pulls it off; also a great artist and good friend :)

Under the Aegis by Vimeddiee, a fantasy series about a group of characters who are bound together by an ancient magical pact as symbolic representatives of the peace between their races. All of them will die if a single one dies, and every generation of their predecessors has been assassinated. They struggle to find a way to end the cycle of death and war by finally completing the ancient ritual, but have to deal with betrayal along the way. There are two very cute gay couples in here :) I'm really sad that it ended recently! T_T

Overdrive by Srinitybeast is a flashy, over the top series about a a pair of siblings who enter their fighting android in arena competitions. Piper, the genderfluid younger sibling, has got to be the cutest playboy I've ever seen :O

Shootaround by Suspu is probably one of my favorite queer comics ever, and has my favorite trans girl character of all time! A high school girls' basketball team and their lovable-but-kinda-stupid coach use the teamwork skills they learned on the court to survive a zombie apocalypse. Pretty much everybody is queer, because who needs babies when the world is ending anyways? Who cares! Bring on the queer cuties! ^_^ There are 3 major lesbian relationships, 3-4 major gay couples (including a gay trans guy), and the only major straight couple is a cis guy and trans girl.

CiwRD_NWUAEdCeT.jpg


^Chau, the trans girl, with her boyfriend

Faust by Arechan is about a two gay college students in a fictional version of modern-day Spain. Gabriel is a clingy, insecure young man who has finally broken free from childhood abuse and a manipulative ex; Mateo is an ordinary guy who happens to be possessed by Mephistopheles. Gabriel sells his soul to Mephistopheles in exchange for one wish every day for the rest of his life, which he generally uses to make Mateo's life miserable...
 

Ehlionney

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In general, the LINE Webtoon mobile app is where I typically get my comic fix. They're based out of Korea so besides the indie English creators, they also have a wide variety of translated Korean series, as well as a small selection of Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, and Japanese works.

There's also Tapastic and their mobile app (I like this one, especially since it has a built in "tipping" system for sponsoring your favorite creators, but since I personally am disabled and unemployed, I can't read a lot of the comics because they are behind pay-walls that I can't afford T_T )

and Spottoon and their mobile app (I'm aware of this one, but haven't really checked it out much yet because I've already got something like 170 series I follow on the other two lmao)
 

Ehlionney

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Considering Claire just moved in with Marten tonight, I have to ask if Questionable Content counts?

I haven't read that series in literal years, so no clue lol. The creator is a bit of a loser at times >.> especially when it comes to social justice topics; I remember giving up on it because I was getting sick of cringey faux allyship and perpetuation of bad queer stereotypes... is it worth getting back into? Has the creator educated themselves a bit more on reality rather than regurgitated tropes from queer characters written by non-queer creators?
 

DancingMaenid

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I realized recently that while I write tons of LGBTQ characters of different genders and sexual orientations, I've never really written any AFAB trans characters aside from one character who's pretty much agender.

I feel kind of bad about it, but I think for me, a lot of my male characters are wish-fulfillment material and writing about someone who's shares my experience with dysphoria is kind of uncomfortable.
 

Ehlionney

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I realized recently that while I write tons of LGBTQ characters of different genders and sexual orientations, I've never really written any AFAB trans characters aside from one character who's pretty much agender.

I feel kind of bad about it, but I think for me, a lot of my male characters are wish-fulfillment material and writing about someone who's shares my experience with dysphoria is kind of uncomfortable.

I have a similar issue with writing gay cis men; they hard trigger insecurities about being read as an effeminate gay man rather than pansexual nonbinary femme T_T
 

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Suddenly wondering if this is why I haven't written an explicitly AroAce character before. I hadn't thought I still had any issues with accepting my orientation, but now... Hmm.

I'll need to think about this some more.
 

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I haven't read that series in literal years, so no clue lol. The creator is a bit of a loser at times >.> especially when it comes to social justice topics; I remember giving up on it because I was getting sick of cringey faux allyship and perpetuation of bad queer stereotypes... is it worth getting back into? Has the creator educated themselves a bit more on reality rather than regurgitated tropes from queer characters written by non-queer creators?
Would you mind pointing me in the direction of some of the problems you've had? I've seen some very general criticisms, but none about this aspect of the comic. I personally haven't found anything that stood out to me as problematic in that regard; any issues I had with characters were usually with a specific character and I never really felt like they were a stereotype (as least not in the LGBT sense; I won't argue there aren't otaku/gamer stereotypes that are sometimes unfair).

Lately I've just been focused on the fact that this is the first time I've seen a transwoman written by a cis man that's not for a fetish, punchline, or refrigerator, and while QC doesn't go deep into trans issues it's still a breath of fresh air to see that sort of representation in a relatively mainstream (as in, not specifically queer-targeted) platform.
 

Ehlionney

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Would you mind pointing me in the direction of some of the problems you've had?

Well, I had stopped reading before the character Claire was introduced, so it does seem to have mostly cleared up by now. I actually was inspired by you to go back and re-read the whole series and am honestly impressed by Claire, she's cute and lovable :)

Rereading, I definitely noticed a LOT of "lol you think I'm cute but what if I secretly had a penis" type jokes in the early years of the comic... It seemed to be one of the running gags for a while there, and actually didn't stop until the beginning of the year Claire was introduced.

Tai is another prime example, representing the stereotype of gay promiscuity up until she starts dating Dora. Hell, the writer even lampshades this issue multiple times by having Tai herself complain that she gets left out of the story for huge sections; and then anytime she does appear, it's as a foil for Marten or for "lesbian hijinks" where she complains about how annoying it is to have to screw every woman on her floor of the dorms.

Most of it actually has cleared up though, and I love Claire, so I'll probably continue reading now :) I'm glad you convinced me to take a chance on it again.
 

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Thanks for pointing those things out. I may go back and look for them just so my confirmation bias doesn't win. I always thought of Tai more as a college stereotype than a lesbian one but now that you say that I see it.
 

Ehlionney

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Thanks for pointing those things out. I may go back and look for them just so my confirmation bias doesn't win. I always thought of Tai more as a college stereotype than a lesbian one but now that you say that I see it.

Also, I found the dynamic between Claire and Bubbles where Claire compares her dysphoria to Bubbles' insecurity about her height REALLY well done for a cis writer. I'm trans and pretty much built like Bubbles lol (I'm 195cm/6'5"), so I'm familiar with both types of dysphoria and the way they interact when the same person is dealing with both, and it resonated with me a lot.

On a slightly different note, reading something so Mass focused was really nostalgic to the years I lived in the CT/MA/RI area in my late HS/college days. I haven't been out that way in almost a decade so it's really weird to suddenly be missing it lol
 

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So, is anybody here seeing Stephen Colbert's "Trump is only good for sucking Putin's dick" comment as homophobic? I just ask because I don't want to speak for a community that I'm not really a part of, and I don't want to write it off as "no one is offended" if I'm not actually looking for it.
 

Ehlionney

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So, is anybody here seeing Stephen Colbert's "Trump is only good for sucking Putin's dick" comment as homophobic? I just ask because I don't want to speak for a community that I'm not really a part of, and I don't want to write it off as "no one is offended" if I'm not actually looking for it.

I don't really know if I would call it homophobic? I could definitely see some people taking it that way and I definitely think they have the right to, though. Personally I see it more as shaming of sex acts. Literally my automatic response when someone tells me to "go suck a dick" I'm like "you say that like it's a bad thing? What if I enjoy sucking dick?" Y'know? But, now that I put it like that, I guess I DO think it's homophobic...because the whole point of saying that is to imply that doing so is a bad thing, which the main reason for thinking it's bad is the belief that being gay is bad.

Idunno, that's a tricky one after all I guess.

Also, am I the only one who finds these kinds of comments a bit rapey?Like, if you assume someone won't enjoy sucking dick but you tell them to do it anyways, you're basically suggesting that you dislike them enough that you hope unpleasant sex acts occur to them, most likely against their will...
 

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There's a lot going on with a slur like that. Homophobic, certainly. Violent, probably. But also garden-variety misogynistic in the implication that one man is The Man and the other man is The Woman.

A further issue with someone trying to use this tired saw as a cutting insult is that the phrasing is arguably no longer shocking or crude. Colbert walked his comment back as a vulgarity, but I think it's just out of date linguistically and socially, falling short of the mark if you're really trying to suggest that someone is an uneducated, inept, obvious sock puppet.


Anyhoo. Great to have new scoobies! :hi:



Who's taking me to see Wonder Woman?

:greenie
 

Underdawg47

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So, is anybody here seeing Stephen Colbert's "Trump is only good for sucking Putin's dick" comment as homophobic? I just ask because I don't want to speak for a community that I'm not really a part of, and I don't want to write it off as "no one is offended" if I'm not actually looking for it.


I don't particularly see it as homophobic, but it has elements of homophobia. It was meant to demean Trump by saying that he is being subservient to Putin in the same way someone calls someone else a "brown noser" or "kissing someone's ass" for favors.

I think true homophobia is a fear of being seen by your peers as homosexual. In a culture where men and women's roles are strictly defined by what is considered masculine and feminine, being homosexual or queer blurs those lines and was seen as taboo. When I was growing up I observed homophobia among young males questioning their sexuality. Young men desperate to fit in and be a part of a group, wanting to be seen by their peers as masculine, and become a "man" in the eyes of their tribe. Young men would make fun of feminine acting boys or weaker ones in order to elevate themselves in the social pecking order by degrading others. In some ways it was a male bonding ritual. And society encouraged this sort of negative behavior from the movies we would watch, to the way our parents and teachers behaved towards sexuality, dress and mannerisms. And this was ultimately justified by religious teaching from the obscure passages in religious text.

When I was growing up in the south in the mid to late 1900s, this was the norm. To be seen as anything different you risked being ostracized by your peers, family and community. Those brave souls that dared to be different were pioneers.

The military cleverly used this to their advantage. It promised many young men who questioned their masculinity as well as their sexuality to, take a boy and make "a man" out of them. I was one of those young men who knew at a young age that I was attracted to men in a sexual way. I knew society saw it as wrong and that Christianity deemed it as sinful. I wanted so bad to fit in and feel as if I were part of the group that I denied my sexual feels as being a phase, or something that I would eventually outgrow. The military would have us sing songs and tell jokes about homosexuals as a male bonding ritual. If anything, the military just confirmed what I already knew about myself. I loved the military, I loved being there lusting after all those handsome young men, yet at the same time tortured because I kept my feelings hidden. I am sure that many other men felt the same way, yet like me felt afraid to admit it for fear of punishment, loss of friends and being ostracized.

I myself was guilty of homophobia by openly denying my sexuality. Luckily I was never guilty of accusing someone else of being gay to make myself look better in comparison, but I do deeply regret not having the courage at the time to come to the defense of those who were being called faggot, gay, queer.

It took me a long time before I gained the courage to come out to anyone and in the process I denied myself the chance to have any meaningful relationship early in life.

But going back to the question of whether I think Stephen Colbert's comments were being homophobic, I would say no. His intent was not to demean homosexuals to make himself appear more straight, but to demean Trump for being an ass.
 

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...I don't particularly see it as homophobic, but it has elements of homophobia. ...

I think there's an important distinction between someone who intentionally uses a phobic/sexist/racist/ethnic slur and someone casually repeating an insult that originated in an oppressive culture. I would have rather Colbert had said I know better than to demean a large swath of people when I'm aiming at just one guy instead of confining his regret to a 'base' choice of words.
 

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I don't know, I don't think something isn't homophobic simply because it wasn't meant as an insult against homosexuals. When someone calls a man a "pussy", they probably aren't even thinking about women or where the insult originated, but it hinges upon the premise that being a pussy - which in this case obviously implies female - is a sign of weakness and inferiority.
Calling something 'gay' as a general insult doesn't really involve gay people per se, but it's rooted in the belief that being gay is wrong. Calling someone a faggot because they're pissing you off, and not because you're accusing them of being gay, still comes from the idea that being gay is something reprehensible and can be used as a general insult.
I think it perpetuates the discriminative culture, even if it isn't trying to actively insult a minority. A lot of the time when people are repeating these jokes and insults, they're not trying to hurt the minority upon whose perceived wrongness the joke is based, but they're still validating a certain worldview, a certain discriminative belief, and I don't think that's okay.
I think the term 'homophobia' is deceptive in how it implies some sort of fear, namely the fear of being gay, but while for many people there is such a fear, for many others it's really just hatred. It's not about being scared of being gay, it's about disgust for someone who's not like you, who's outside the perceived norm, who's not like what your pastor says people should be like, who challenges the status quo, who's just not like what you're used to. My aunt once told me that she thinks gay people are gross, because when she sees a man and a woman together, she thinks that's nice, but 2 men together seems unnatural and disgusting, and so shouldn't be happening. There's no fear there, there's just conditioning and seeing the world in stereotypes. Maybe 'bigotry' would be a more apt term, since 'homophobia' has such questionable etymology. But since we generally use 'homophobia' to describe bigotry toward gay people specifically, that's kind of what we're stuck with here.
As to Colbert's comment, I do think it's both homophobic and misogynistic, even though he likely did not mean it as such. Obviously we know what he meant - he meant Trump was submissive to Putin, he did not mean Trump was gay. But it's rooted in the idea that anyone sucking cock is submissive, servile, with no free will. I don't think it's about the sex act itself. It's about the fact that sucking cock is something perceived to be done only by women and queer men. And those are the people our society views as inherently lesser. The reason these kinds of jokes exist is that our society believes that a straight man is the only truly respectable variation of human, and anyone else is inferior. A straight man would never suck a cock, you see. Only a queer man or a woman would be doing that, so comparing someone to them automatically implies their inferiority.
So, ;tldr, Colbert probably didn't mean it as homophobic, but I do think it is homophobic in nature and perpetuates homophobic mindsets. His apology was pathetic. He apologized for the words he used rather than the implications he made, and while I don't exactly expect comedians to be politically correct, I don't think someone should call themselves an ally, but then continue to make jokes rooted in bigotry.

---
Also, am I the only one who finds these kinds of comments a bit rapey?Like, if you assume someone won't enjoy sucking dick but you tell them to do it anyways, you're basically suggesting that you dislike them enough that you hope unpleasant sex acts occur to them, most likely against their will...

I totally agree.
 

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Sadly, the word "homophobia" does roll off the tongue more easily than the nearly always more accurate "heterosupremacism."
 

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{So, ;tldr, Colbert probably didn't mean it as homophobic, but I do think it is homophobic in nature and perpetuates homophobic mindsets. His apology was pathetic. He apologized for the words he used rather than the implications he made, and while I don't exactly expect comedians to be politically correct, I don't think someone should call themselves an ally, but then continue to make jokes rooted in bigotry.}

---

This is interesting because it is similar to blacks using the N-word. Some blacks who use the word claim it is used as a term of endearment towards one another, yet when someone outside the race uses it, it is racist.


I am under the personal belief that we as a society give words and phrases both positive and negative power depending upon how we react to traditional derogatory terms and insults. Take for instance the word "bastard." In the olden days being called a bastard was a very derogatory term. It was specifically used to denigrate someone who's parents conceived you out of wedlock. It meant that you weren't legally an heir to an inheritance, or perhaps it meant that you weren't legally your father's child. Today this term holds very little power as far as a specific insult.

I would like to see words like faggot, fag, sissy, queer, pansy, etc lose that negative hurtful power that it holds over us as well. I still cringe when I hear someone being called these words in a hurtful manner. I think the negative power of such words can be changed and disarmed by the way we as a society react to hearing these words. These words will never go away, but how we react to them can change. If we want these words and phrases rooted in bigotry to lose their intended punch, I think we need to not act offended when comedians, friends, family, etc use those terms. Part of this is involves being out and open with ones sexuality to those who would use these terms in your presence.

I also believe that political correctness does not diffuse derogatory words or bigotry, it just drives them underground where they fester below the surface. I think political correctness is like walking on egg shells where certain words become so taboo that everyone and anyone can be easily offended. I think it is best to embrace these words and phrases and redirect them in such a way as to deprive them of their negative punch, but that is just my opinion.
 

BenPanced

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To paraphrase a speech I've given elsewhere:

There's really no such thing as "political correctness" any longer. It began in the 80s when the über-left wanted to create "neutral" terms to avoid offending people. This gave rise to such terms as African American, hearing impaired, differently abled, etc., to replace black, deaf, and disabled. Nowadays, "politically correct" has been usurped by the über-right to claim their rights to free speech are being shut down because they get called out on their bigotry.

Granted, there are terms that groups have attempted to reclaim to lessen the impact of their use but many of the old guard (*raises hand*) still object to their use because of the negative connotations still attached to them, especially now with the rise of the so-called alt-right and the increase of the amount of bigotry on display in the world these days.

If we want these words and phrases rooted in bigotry to lose their intended punch, I think we need to not act offended when comedians, friends, family, etc use those terms. Part of this is involves being out and open with ones sexuality to those who would use these terms in your presence.

Yeah, but that's just it: many of these terms are offensive and for us (me) to not act offended when they are used is not going to lessen their impact. Many, many, many, many times, when these words are being used, they're always followed up with "Jesus. I was just kidding. Can't you take a joke?", followed up with "Jesus. You're taking away my first amendment rights to say these things." Standing up to the people who use them and calling them out is much more powerful than shrugging them off and acting like nothing's wrong. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will always hurt me. Having "queer" and "faggot" directed at me as insults will never have the impact lessened; I am out and open about my sexuality, as you suggested as above, and I still get these comments made to me. Sometimes, though, when you are out and open, it gives bigots an open target on where to direct their hatred so, yes, I will continue to be offended by the usage of such language. To ignore such language and "not act offended" only allows the use to continue, to give the bigots carte blanche to continue to act in an offensive manner without them realizing their actions might have real consequences.
 

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I think it is best to embrace these words and phrases and redirect them in such a way as to deprive them of their negative punch, but that is just my opinion.
'Bastard' may not have the same effect now as it did back then in no small part because mindsets have changed and being born out of wedlock isn't as much of an issue now as it was when the word was created, and because a very long time has passed. Being gay, however, IS currently seen as wrong, so the words aren't likely to lose their insulting nature any time soon. Possibly not until we no longer see homosexuality as reprehensible, at which point insults related to it will no longer carry the same implications.
What you're suggesting is akin to telling a person that lived in a time when 'bastard' was a very specific, heavy insult to just shrug it off and let people continue to insult them because if they don't act offended, then someday the word is going to lose its meaning.
I also don't think an oppressed group reclaiming an insult for themselves supports your argument either, because there's a big difference between me calling myself queer, and someone else calling me queer as a derogatory term, just as is the case with the n-word. As you've pointed out yourself, the word is still racist when used by someone outside the ethnic group. And I wouldn't tell black people not to feel insulted, to just chill and let it slide, when that word is used against them as an insult, or used for its discriminative value even without the specific effort to insult black people. It still carries the same history and the same derogatory implications, and I wouldn't expect black people to keep silent about it or to act like it's no big deal. So I wouldn't expect that from people in the quiltbag community either.
I don't think not acting offended when someone is making bigoted jokes has the same effect as an oppressed group actively working on reclaiming an insult. That's not even really what we were talking about. Colbert didn't use a derogatory term that we could ever conceivably reclaim. He made a joke rooted in bigotry, and there isn't really a way to reclaim that. You can reclaim a word, but you really can't reclaim jokes based on believing you to be inferior.
Me not speaking up, not feeling offended - or rather, not showing that I'm offended - isn't going to make bigots think that they didn't get one over on me. It's a lot more likely to make them feel validated because no one's calling them out on their shit, no one is criticizing them, no one is telling them they're doing something wrong.
If you want to embrace the insults because you think that will make them lose their power, by all means. That is, of course, your right. But that doesn't mean we should all sit down and shut up when we feel insulted by those words or those jokes. And being out and proud isn't necessarily going to fix anything. Being openly gay and not calling people out on bigotry doesn't drain power out of the insults. It just makes the bigot feel validated, feel like they've gotten away with it, and makes them more likely to continue in the same key. It's going to make them feel like it's okay to be a bigot and tell bigoted jokes if even the gay people aren't calling them out on it.
Frankly, a lot of the time, staying silent or 'being cool about it' is precisely what bigots are telling us to do. They throw insulting jokes at us, then tell us to chill because it's just a joke and we shouldn't feel insulted. They want us to remain silent as they continue to spew bigotry, and I for one, would rather not choke down my hurt so that the people who are insulting me don't have to feel bad about themselves or ever think about what kind of ideas and beliefs their bigoted jokes are perpetuating